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Old June 16, 2024, 08:52 PM   #51
5whiskey
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What is your free time worth?
It's worth exactly whatever it is I want to do in my free time. Usually spending time with the kids. BUT... I do like to shoot and I actually often pay money to do it. While I wouldn't pay rent on a reloading press purely for the sake of reloading like I do range fees purely for the sake of shooting, reloading is still something I mostly "want" to do as I get to see the outcome when I shoot. It can be a chore sometimes, but I still enjoy it. I like to tinker. I like to work up good loads. I like to work on and make the cheap Lee classic turret crank out rounds beyond what it's life expectancy probably should be.
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Old June 17, 2024, 01:29 PM   #52
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Does anyone participating in this thread realize that Freedom Munitions and LAX ammo are quite possibly two of the worst known re-man ammo sources of the known free world?

This stuff makes the very idea of "remanufactured ammo" seem like a horrendous idea.

And that's a shame because quality re-man is decent ammo. Black Hills began life as a quality re-man ammo company.

Freedom Munitions is hot garbage. LAX is basically the same junk from the same folks.
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Old June 17, 2024, 01:45 PM   #53
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Does anyone participating in this thread realize that Freedom Munitions and LAX ammo are quite possibly two of the worst known re-man ammo sources of the known free world?
and your point is???

I see them mentioned in the OP, but only about their advertised prices, not the quality, I've never used any, nor do I plan to.

"Remanufactured" is just a fancy term for "reloaded" commercially, and guarantees nothing specific.

I KNOW the quality of my reloads and handloads, and if it doesn't meet my minimum standards, I know who is to blame for that.

At last count (and it was some while ago) I was set up to reload for about 30 different rifle and handgun rounds. Been reloading since the early 1970s, don't do a lot of volume shooting anymore, so not really concerned with factory ammo prices much.

We're all in different spots, but for me, reloading isn't obsolete, its my primary ammo source.
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Old June 17, 2024, 06:18 PM   #54
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If you don’t feel like reloading because ammo is low priced enough, I get it. However, I would recommend having a good sized stash of reloading supplies on hand. Inevitably there will be another shortage and prices will go up. The other fear for me is at some point you want be able to get ammo or reloading supplies.
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Old June 18, 2024, 08:29 AM   #55
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Been reloading and casting since 1986. I'll do this till I die!
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Old June 19, 2024, 07:08 PM   #56
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Hmmm. Other than Shotgun ammo and .22lr, I haven't shot any CF rifle or CF handgun ammo in, well, I don't recall what decade. As someone already mentioned, have never shot a deer, elk, hog, pronghorn with anything other than a handload. Is it becoming obsolete? No. I have components enough that I do not worry about shortages and most importantly, availabilty.
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Old June 20, 2024, 09:38 AM   #57
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There are a few things that keep me going long after I made myself "enough" ammunition. For one, I've learned more about handguns and ammunition from reloading than I have any other way. For another - factory ammo is often QR tested with batch samples - every round I produce goes through 5 to 7 checks depending upon what it is. Most of the best firearm experts I've come across are reloaders. I'm a recycler by nature, so making my own from scrap just seems right to me. I like having the knowledge & supplies to make what I may need should I not be able to buy it. When I hear anti-gun advocates wail on about how someone had 200 rounds of ammo - and how could ANYONE need THAT much - etc. - that's a warning sign to me... and makes me happy I know what I know and have what I have under lock & key. I learned and tooled up to making my own JHP projectiles from scrap which I find superior to most factory JHPs. I can produce a box of pistol ammunition for $4 to $7 in supplies depending upon the round as I watched the same box of factory ammo retail for as much as $52 during Covid - and that gives me some comfort in hard times. Did I ever do it for a cost savings? Not really... I have some $3000 in reloading equipment, but that investment has paid for itself in cost savings in the past decade. And peace of mind - that's priceless.
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Old June 23, 2024, 08:09 AM   #58
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There are certain calibers that are not worth reloading either in the time and care they require (like .25) or the cost of factory ammo is so cheap it's not worth doing, like 9mm.

I've said before, but with 9mm it's not cost effective to reload for myself, but I'm not flush with thousands of pounds of free lead like some have built up for decades, nor do I have 20k primers from when they were 3 cents a primer. Those that have those things, yeah, 9mm is economical to load for, but they're the exception, not the norm.

Other calibers it only makes sense to reload them.
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Old June 23, 2024, 10:47 AM   #59
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I'll chime in on Why reloading may still be worth it.
Lots of this depends on the reason someone shoots. If you just want to hear a bang or plinking, not shooting much factory ammo may be the way to go.
However, Reloading is a skill and knowledge you can pass on to your kids, something that you can leave with them forever.
Another reason to reload is the ammo you can make is the BEST ammo available. Meaning the most accurate, cleanest consistent. Most factory ammo is just made to go bang with the most profit margin. It is garbage in comparison to what you can load yourself
Again if you don't shoot frequently or at a level where these things matter, then they don't matter.
It's just something people who don't reload don't know.
I hope these thoughts are helpful and just one man's humble option.
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Old June 23, 2024, 11:30 AM   #60
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Asides from the previous, reloading adds some certainty in maintaining the ability to keep shooting. So long as you think ahead and stock up on supplies. At any time, we are only an election away from the possibility of severe limits on ammunition supplies.

And certainly agree with 3Gwarrior on passing down the skill set.
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Old June 24, 2024, 12:00 PM   #61
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I can think of one instance where you might be better off in the long run buying factory ammo over reloading; that's if you're running over-bore cartridges like 7mm STW, 300 RUM and most Weatherby mag cartridges. Most of the factory ammo is pretty darn expensive--but the demand for high performance is such that the manufacturer usually has found an optimized load that will work well in most (usually) hunting rifles. My 7mm STW barrel will probably be toasted by the time I figure out a few good bullets loads.
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Old June 24, 2024, 05:41 PM   #62
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stagpanther; has a valid point about the number of rounds a barrel burner will stand... load developement might not be worth it there. but on the other hand even though the 223/5.56 is cheep enough the round count is very high and one can expect their load they developed to preform well for a long time to come... but i still don't shoot factory loads except 22lr and i shoot it for cheep fun, it's not on my list of hunting/sporting weapons.
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Old June 25, 2024, 11:04 PM   #63
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Both commercial ammo and reloading/handloading have become expensive. Gone are the days of reloading small pistol calibers under 5 cents round its done.
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Old June 26, 2024, 12:42 PM   #64
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My free time is priceless...Thats why I give it away..
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Old June 26, 2024, 01:39 PM   #65
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I load for 6.5-06 and .338-06 wildcats, as well as the other calibers listed in my sig line. Never had any factory ammo shoot OR PERFORM like my reloads.
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Old June 26, 2024, 03:47 PM   #66
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I've actually pondered this question myself.

I think there are two answers, for me at least.

1)Rifle cartridges
Yes, I can pretty much buy ammo that's just as good as I can load, or darn close... but I was just doing the math yesterday.
Take my .204Ruger for example
$62 for a pound of Benchmark (ridiculous, but that's what it is)
$100 for 1,000 primers (ridiculous, but that's what it is)
$25 for 100 32gr V-Max
Brass comes out to maybe $40 for 500 total rounds, as I can reload them a bunch but I buy Norma, so it's pricey (50 pieces, 10 reloads)

So, 8 cents for the brass, 10 for the primer, 25 for the bullet and call it 25 for the powder (account for some waste).
Total price per round, 68 cents
Retail cost about $1.25 each

My loads are 1/2 the cost of retail.
There's also the availability question... find me some factory .243AI...

2)Handguns
Much sketchier math here.
I can easily buy 9mm, for example, at about $15/50 tax included (usually more like $13.50) Call it 0.30 cents per round

Powder runs maybe 6 cents per round. Bullets, even the cheapest, are 12 or 13 cents, primer is still 10 cents, brass is relatively cheap ($39/500 once fired) but I lose probably 10% every time... so still looking at probably 3-4 cents per load....
So, my loads cost about 30-35 cents per load....

Break even, being generous to reloading costs.

I still reload handgun, just because I already have everything.
All in all, there's no doubt I could have shot for the rest of my life with factory ammo and never touched what I spent on reloading.
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Old June 27, 2024, 05:18 AM   #67
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Sheesh, my wife likes shooting ammo I make, and will sometimes buy me components out of her money. At one time I was shooting 9mm literally for the cost of the electricity to run the lead pot and powder coating toaster oven.
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Old June 27, 2024, 03:22 PM   #68
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Sorting cleaned brass. This is stage one, there are probably 20 or so different cartridge cases in those starter piles.

Not necessarily at the top of the list for "why I love to reload."

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Old June 27, 2024, 11:31 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stagpanther View Post
Sorting cleaned brass. This is stage one, there are probably 20 or so different cartridge cases in those starter piles.



Not necessarily at the top of the list for "why I love to reload."



That's hardcore. Sorting head stamp and weight of the same caliber is the farthest I would go.

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Old June 28, 2024, 02:35 AM   #70
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It's like cleaning the dirty dishes, I let them pile up before doing everything all at once. It takes a couple days to empty the Homer buckets and tumble clean sort and then store in the proper containers. Sometimes I'll run out of exotic brass for a load I need to do, so this preliminary vetting helps me find them quickly in a sea of cases.
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Old June 30, 2024, 07:52 PM   #71
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IMHO, if someone is looking into reloading starting with zero equipment and components. I would say unless this person is reloading obsolete or very hard to find cartridges it is NOT cost effective in todays world of equipment and components prices.
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Old June 30, 2024, 08:50 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Don P View Post
IMHO, if someone is looking into reloading starting with zero equipment and components. I would say unless this person is reloading obsolete or very hard to find cartridges it is NOT cost effective in todays world of equipment and components prices.
exactly next thing you know your reloading 18 different cartridges with 18 different dies sometimes multiple dies for the same calibers then you want a different press or two. sounds like most of us here lol.
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Old June 30, 2024, 11:18 PM   #73
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I have stepped into the world of black powder cartridges, with it's own set of arcane rules. Last night I spent close to 3 hours loading just 20 rounds of 45 Colt BP, going very slow and methodical just to get it right. I didn't begrudge a single minute as to me, it was fun.
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Old July 1, 2024, 10:29 AM   #74
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If you're only interested in shooting guns chambered for 9mm, .223/5.56, and perhaps 12 gauge then I guess an argument could be made that reloading isn't cost effective, but I find the idea of being restricted to guns in those three calibers to be, quite frankly, boring. Honestly, you could have made an even more compelling argument that reloading isn't cost effective 20-25 years ago because not only were the three above mentioned calibers cheaper to shoot, even when adjusted for inflation, but other calibers were relatively affordable which have since skyrocketed in price. I can remember the early 2000's when you could go to Wal-Mart and buy a 100 round "value pack" of Winchester White Box 9mm for $9.99 all day every day. I can also remember when .380 Auto cost about $7/50 rounds and .38 Special was $7-8/50 rounds. Heck, when I bought my first .357 Magnum the same shop sold me S&B .357 Magnum 158 gr JSP ammunition for $12/50 rounds and when I was a kid in the late 90's, I remember my uncle telling my dad about a local shop that had .44 Magnum ammunition on sale for $20/50 rounds.

As I said, however, I find the idea of being limited to 9mm, .223/5.56, and 12 gauge to be dull. I got into reloading because I bought a .45-70 and, at the time, factory ammunition was "unaffordable" because it cost roughly $1/round. Pretty much any centerfire rifle cartridge other than .223/5.56 will cost at least that much now. I've always had an "eclectic" taste in firearms and ammunition and, if I didn't reload, I couldn't afford to shoot some of my favorite cartridges like .44 Special or 10mm Auto.

One should also bear in mind that just because a common cartridge like 9mm isn't cost-effective to reload now, that doesn't mean that such will be the case in perpetuity. I can remember various times during the "ammo panics" we've seen over the last 20 or so years seeing 9mm FMJ ammunition going for up to $50/50 rounds when you could find it. While I don't load a lot of 9mm currently, I do have dies and plenty of components to do so and it wouldn't be much trouble to start if/when there's another "ammo panic" and supplies become scarce and expensive again.

Likewise, the cost of reloading can be further decreased by having associating with other reloaders. A good friend of mine has given me a lot of brass because he's picked it up at the range in calibers that he doesn't load for, but I do and I've reciprocated this favor to him. I've also given him powder that I tried and wasn't satisfied with for my application, but which worked well for him in a different cartridge.

Finally, reloading allows one to tailor their ammunition to exactly what they want or need it to be. I rather like certain cartridges with less common bullet weights like a 180 gr .44 Magnum or 155 gr 10mm and while these are offered as factory ammunition, they're not common or cheap. I can reload practice ammunition that has the same recoil and same POI as my chosen factory ammo or, in a pinch, even load my own preferred carry ammo if a factory option is totally unavailable. Likewise, even the price and availability of certain components can be offset somewhat if one is willing to put in the work to do so. While I wouldn't try it in a semi-automatic, a revolver cartridge like .38 Special, .44 Special, or .45 Long Colt or some lever-gun cartridges like .45-70 can be loaded with a black powder substitute like Pyrodex or even real black powder if a suitable smokeless powder isn't available or is too expensive.
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Old July 1, 2024, 12:37 PM   #75
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exactly next thing you know your reloading 18 different cartridges with 18 different dies
No way that will ever happen to me!





The Prazi press.
There can be only one.
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