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Old June 13, 2024, 11:15 AM   #26
Marco Califo
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Shooting is therapeutic,
Reloading is prep work.
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Old June 13, 2024, 12:50 PM   #27
armoredman
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Wow! You're able to buy 9mm for $9/50? That's what it cost me to load 124gr coated. Of course I don't shoot that much 9mm anymore.
Hmm, what am I paying right now...my lead was sourced by a buddy who berm mined a closed range, split it with the guy who smelted, alloyed and ingoted it for me, so cost for lead...zero, incluyding casting and powder coating - the same buddy is always givi9ng me powder coat colors he doesn't like. I don't care if my bullets are pink or yellow as long as they hit the mark.
Primers, we'll use the worst price, $9.99 per 100 right now locally. So, that's $5 per 50 right there. Otherwise, best price I paid recently was still high, $79 per 1000 at Scheels.
Powder, well, last time I bought Accurate Arms #2, which I use 3.8 grains per load, was $33.99 a pound - it's gone up a bit. That's rounded up to two cents per round. So, that's a buck per 50. Brass is free, sourced off the range and given to me, all equipment paid for itself a decade ago. So, yeah, I can load 50 rounds of 9mm for $6 or less. Do not try to throw in that stupid "what's your time worth": because this is a hobby and if I wasn't loading, I'd be right here on the computer or doing something else relaxing, not going in to work. So my time cost doesn't figure in at all, not one penny.
And, like Electrod47 said, its fun and therapeutic. Did I mention when I am loading, nobody bothers me in my little corner of the world?
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Old June 13, 2024, 02:29 PM   #28
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I started reloading my ammo early on at age 16. The years was 1954. Cartridges were the 30-30, 30-06 and .38 SPL for a 38/44 Outdoorsman. I wisj I still had. I did find a replacement though many years later and I'm not selling that one.

I cannot remember the last time I used a factory round of ammo on a hunt but probably Labor Day weekend on a deer hunt up in the northwest corner of California. It was the last weekend of the coastal season and I was scheduled to leave a few days later to start military basic training. About the only time I use factory ammo at all these days it for test firing a new to me rifle. All my hunts afterward is with my handloads custom loaded to that rifle.

Early on one did save quite a bit by reloading ammo but also one could shoot a lot more. Much of my fun shooting was with home cast bullets and currently I have about 90 something molds. I even used cast bullets for some of my deer hunting and they worked just fine from the 30-30. I even took a few deer with the 30-06 and cast.

I'm more than willing to bet that just about all the deer I have taken since say 1964 have been with my handloads and I know for sure that every elk I've taken with my handloads. I don't think that will change any time soon.
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Old June 14, 2024, 09:05 AM   #29
L. Boscoe
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Loading for Bullseye in 38 spl and 45acp, the cost is lower. 9mm
I don't reload. Then the recoil issue is easily dealt with in handholds. I haven't seen a 45 factory load that fits the bill.
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Old June 14, 2024, 04:47 PM   #30
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The highest commercial volume rounds, 9mm for pistol and 223 for rifle, are always going to be the hardest to save money on because there is so much seller competition. One of the old rules of free market economics is that competition tends to drive prices down toward the cost of production. The high volume stuff is all assembled by robots, which will add a very small cost per round, so it isn't surprising the price would eventually come down to parity with component cost at the consumer level.

The plus sides of handloading will continue to be the customizability of loads, the potential for tighter quality control than most commercial loads have, and there are still cost savings in cartridges that are less common than 9mm and 223.
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Old June 14, 2024, 06:04 PM   #31
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I haven't been buying loaded ammo for long time, so I may not be up to date. My range buddy told me he was paying close to $1 a round for 5.56 even buying bulk. I think I can save quite a bit material-wise handloading even at current prices. No I don't shoot more. Quite on the contrary I shoot less. Things aren't cheap, each round needs to count more.

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Old June 14, 2024, 06:14 PM   #32
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difficult

Don"t know about obsolete, but it certainly has become more difficult for two reasons: cost and availability of components.
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Old June 14, 2024, 06:34 PM   #33
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Costs savings is the most common reason brought up for loading your own.

That's never been a significant reason in why I reload.
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Old June 15, 2024, 07:13 AM   #34
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Cost savings is usually why people start loading.

Better ammo is why they usually continue.

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Old June 15, 2024, 07:58 AM   #35
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Well, I’d like an example…..44 mag 240gr RNFP(not JHP)

FREEDOM: $1.19 per round

ME:
primer: $0.08
Case: $0.26
Powder:$0.11
Bullet: $0.17
Tax:$0.05
Subttl:$0.67
Labor@$80/hr:$0.64
TTL:$1.31

As you can see, labor or the productivity of that labor is my issue here!
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Old June 15, 2024, 08:12 AM   #36
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I can't add labor cost to my cost equation. Nobody is going to pay me anything at the hour when I handload.

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Old June 15, 2024, 08:55 AM   #37
ronl
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I really like having the ability to load rounds for specific things, and the ability to create accurate ammo that exceeds factory rounds. Reloading has certainly become much more costly, perhaps by design, but it certainly is not obsolete in my opinion.
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Old June 15, 2024, 11:06 AM   #38
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Nathan, people that make $80 per hour probably can afford to buy factory ammo, right? If they can't, they are doing something wrong.
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Old June 15, 2024, 12:18 PM   #39
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Labor@$80/hr:$0.64
Your labor costs seem wildly out of wack to me.
Unrealistically so.

What idiot is going to pay you $80 an hour to assemble ammunition??

Even the Federal Govt paying union scale isn't that dumb.

You're looking at it the wrong way. Even if you make $80/hr at you "real" job, your time is ONLY worth that to your employer when you are at your job, and on the clock.

It is the value of what you do that determines the value of your time as labor. IF you think you are worth $80/hr no matter what you are doing, you're wrong. Or, at least working under false assumptions. Are you worth $80/hr when you're in the bathroom? When you're asleep? When you're eating??

Does getting 8 hours of sleep cost you $640 in lost wages?? I don't see how your math works.
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Old June 15, 2024, 01:21 PM   #40
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as a side note: i met a guy one time that said his income stream was high enough that; if he stoped and bent over to pick up a $100.00 bill off the ground, he was loosing money. "name bill britt"


i wonder if he handloads ?
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Old June 15, 2024, 08:50 PM   #41
armoredman
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To add in labor is dopey - when I reload, I am on my time and my employer isn't paying me. The ONLY time that makes any kind of sense is when you work at home with no set hours or schedule, and time you spend in the reloading room MIGHT be taking you away from a lucrative deal. In that case I hope you get some order in your life before that schedule kills you!
Other than that, the mere idea is ludicrous - I am at home and not going in for overtime, so there are ZERO labor costs.
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Old June 15, 2024, 09:09 PM   #42
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I agree with those who decline to consider the cost of labor in handloading. It is YOUR labor and you can assign to it any cost you please, so that is not a viable factor.

I recall a time when I mentioned to a dental surgeon how long it took me to landscape my home. He asked why I do this myself, referring to his philosophy that if he works at his office he makes more than enough to pay the landscaper while he, himself, sits on the porch, watching and having an adult beverage or two. I offered my opinion that while he was sitting on the porch he was not making ANY money that might pay the landscaper, and absent the exercise, he would be underground long before the landscaper. The conversation ended.
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Old June 15, 2024, 11:22 PM   #43
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44MAGNUM 78 DOLLARS A BOX OF 50 WHAT THE

Like many others it is my get away and sometimes the only time I can get away. If I am in work mode or chore mode my mind is always go go go what's next, pick up the pace, do it right etc. When I am reloading I know I have to slow down and focus solely on the loading practice. It's peace and FUN especially finding the right load for your firearm.
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Old June 16, 2024, 08:31 AM   #44
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You also have to note that at $0.26 for brass, Nathan is talking about loading new brass to compare with the price of a similar commercial new round. Most of us use the brass probably at least six times before the mouth starts splitting from the heavy roll crimps needed for shooting them in the less massive revolvers, so for REloads, the price for brass drops to about $0.04 per round. Less if you have a gun that doesn't require such a stiff crimp or allows a taper crimp or if you anneal case mouths. The $0.17 bullet price is reduced if you cast your own from scrap alloy. So I would say, using Nathan's sales tax number for the components, about $21/50 rds with commercial cast bullets and about $14/50 rds if I allow three or four cents for powder coat or lube plus a homemade gas check on bullets cast from free scrap.

I can't bring myself to count the labor for the same reason as Cdoc42's point to his dentist. I compare it to the entertainment proposition of watching TV. At $80/hour, it would be nowhere near worth bothering with except maybe for the Superbowl or a concert or other special show for which the tickets and travel time and ticket cost to see it live would make it more expensive than the TV time. Plus, with commercial TV being about 1/3 commercials now, the actual program content viewing time for someone earning $80/hr would come up to $120/hr. This makes movie tickets look cheap in comparison to watching commercial TV live. Especially when you consider that news or other informational viewing can be handled by listening to the radio while you reload. Doing that, if you pay for the listening time, the reloading is free.
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Old June 16, 2024, 08:39 AM   #45
Nathan
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Sorry, I pulled $80/hr from my butt. It is a real number, but not for production wages…..like mechanics hourly rate at a shop selling you 1 hr of mechanic time.

Think of it not as how much do you get paid, but as the selling price of your labor. That said, it could drop to $35 and be quite reasonable as a labor cost. What is your free time worth?
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Old June 16, 2024, 10:05 AM   #46
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My free time is worth 0$ as it is my 'free'/'off' time. Reloading is a hobby, never a 'chore'/'job'. Enjoyable when I need to crank out more rounds of already proven load/bullet formulas. You have control of what you shoot, not up to what's on the self. Wonderful. Only thing 'worth' buying is 22LR. Never understood those that put $$ on 'time' for your own reloading. Oh, and it's not something I do everyday. Just when I feel like it, or need something. So obsolete? <shakes head> No way...
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Old June 16, 2024, 10:31 AM   #47
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From a cost priority rather than a function priority standpoint, cost consideration depends on what you need your time for and what income or monetary savings doing something else with that same time will bring. It's the same with reading a non-work-related book or watching TV or any other hobby. Do you count as a cost what paying someone else to do these things for you would be? Usually not, because you enjoy doing them. But if you think of reloading as a chore rather than part of the shooting hobby you enjoy, and you have the cash resources necessary to pay someone else to do it for you, then, by all means, go that route. Lots of folks do. There are competitors who pay boutique reloading houses to roll the ammunition recipe their rifle builder recommended rather than trying to do it themselves. Gary Anderson told my CMP GSM Master Instructor's class that he never reloaded anything. All the ammunition he used to train for and compete for his Olympic gold medals was supplied by sponsors. Jeff Cooper told me he always had someone else do his loading for him. That element just wasn't part of his focus in shooting activities.

As always, different strokes for different folks.
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Old June 16, 2024, 11:03 AM   #48
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As always, different strokes for different folks.
Exactly. We all have different shooting needs. Ie. I shoot maybe a couple thousand a year (revolver rounds). But a competitor may shoot that in a week (or more). Volume would make a difference. However for me, even if I was a zillionaire , I'd still find time to sit and crank out a few rounds . It's a fine hobby!
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Old June 16, 2024, 11:28 AM   #49
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Handloading will never be rendered obsolete as long as someone needs a load that isn't commercially available. I think that's really separate from whether it will rendered economically uncompetitive for rounds that duplicate commercial loads.
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Old June 16, 2024, 04:05 PM   #50
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Hand loading never be rendered obsolete as long as someone needs a load that isn't commercially available
Very true... To expand on that, I load what 'I' want to shoot. In .44 Mag, I load down to a 240gr SWC at 1100fps. In the past, I've also loaded down to 750fps in .44 Mag. In .357, I load down to a 158gr SWC at ~1100 fps as well. No need for screamers. .45 Colt I load 'up' 250gr RNFP a bit to 900fps. Or 255gr SWC at 1100fps for a decent woods load. Or throw some blackpowder in there as well for historical shooting. Reloading offers one the ability to tailor any load to one's purpose/desire. It is a win-win. I don't see what's not to like .
I'd still be reloading if we were back with just the Lyman 310 Tong tool (yes, I have one for .45 Colt). I like the freedom reloading gives me.

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I think that's really separate from whether it will rendered economically uncompetitive for rounds that duplicate commercial loads.
Won't argue with that for the 9mm, .45 ACP, and .223 shooters. Your limited anyway with what power levels you can play with due to the semi-auto weapon itself. Need to be able to cycle the slide for example.
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