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Old May 20, 2024, 05:58 PM   #1
badmatrix
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Is this 7.5” .300 black out upper and NFA item?

Sku
935n-ua300phb7.518pbur-7m3

I guess this will be a 7.5” SBR.

Do we buy it and then have it registered and pay the tax stamp. It appears, that it is sent directly and not through an FFL?

Last edited by badmatrix; May 20, 2024 at 06:11 PM.
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Old May 20, 2024, 06:54 PM   #2
dogtown tom
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Barrels and uppers by themselves are not firearms, therefore they cannot be NFA firearms.

If you assemble a firearm that has a rifled barrel and a shoulder stock that is less than 26" OAL or has less than a 16" barrel, you have a NFA SBR.
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Old May 21, 2024, 12:09 AM   #3
georgehwbush
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yeah all uppers ship dirrect don't they?
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Old May 21, 2024, 12:51 AM   #4
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Isn't the ATF rule that if you have one of these short uppers AND a lower that the combination, even if not assembled, is a NFA item if you don't have an SBR stamp for at least one lower?
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Old May 21, 2024, 02:59 AM   #5
badmatrix
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I thought i would ask and got a couple different answers. Thanks for responding.
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Old May 21, 2024, 03:20 PM   #6
zoomie
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Quote:
Isn't the ATF rule that if you have one of these short uppers AND a lower that the combination, even if not assembled, is a NFA item if you don't have an SBR stamp for at least one lower?
Not exactly.

United States v. Thompson-Center Arms Co. ruled you had to show intent.

https://stephenhalbrook.com/thompson/

Quote:
On June 8, 1992, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the Contender pistol and carbine kit are not a short-barreled rifle under the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. §5845(a)(3). This means that a consumer may possess the pistol with its 10” barrel and may use the kit parts to make a rifle with the 21” barrel, as long as the shoulder stock is not assembled onto the receiver at the same time as the 10” barrel.
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Old May 21, 2024, 04:24 PM   #7
dogtown tom
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Quote:
ballardw Isn't the ATF rule that if you have one of these short uppers AND a lower that the combination, even if not assembled, is a NFA item if you don't have an SBR stamp for at least one lower?
You need to have a lawful configuration possible with the components in your possession.
Having a factory AR15 rifle with 16" bbl is fine....but being in possession of that 7.5" upper means you are in constructive possession of an SBR.
vs
Having an AR15 pistol with 7.5" bbl and having a spare 16" upper as well.
Thats legal, because you can configure that AR pistol as a pistol>Title I rifle and back to pistol as often as you wish.

If you have an AR lower that was not first assembled as a Title I rifle, you can build it as a pistol or rifle. If you build it as a pistol first you have flexibility to go pistol>rifle>pistol. "First a rifle, always a rifle".
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Old May 21, 2024, 04:30 PM   #8
dogtown tom
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Quote:
zoomie

United States v. Thompson-Center Arms Co. ruled you had to show intent.
No, it didn't.
From your link:
Quote:
Justice Souter wrote that “a set of parts that could be used to make nothing but a short-barreled rifle” would, if there is an “aggregation” of such, be a short-barreled rifle. The opinion states that “a combination of parts that could only be assembled into an NFA-regulated firearm” would be such a firearm.[1] Further, a non-NFA gun becomes an NFA firearm if “placed together with a further part or parts that would have no use in association with the gun except to convert it into a firearm.” As examples, the court mentions a carbine with a machinegun conversion kit,[2] and a pistol and attachable shoulder stock found in different drawers of the same dresser.
From Wikipedia:
Quote:
The court ruled in Thompson Center Arms' favor in that the carbine conversion kit did not constitute a short-barreled rifle, primarily because the kit contained both the stock and the 16-inch barrel.

Justice Scalia also noted that there is a warning carved on the stock telling the user to not attach the stock to the receiver when the 10-inch barrel is attached to the receiver or vice versa.

This circumstance caused the court to apply the rule of lenity since the NFA carries criminal penalties with it. This meant that ambiguous statutes are interpreted against the government.
The TC Contender kit had a legal configuration for both pistol and rifle.
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Last edited by dogtown tom; May 21, 2024 at 04:51 PM.
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Old May 21, 2024, 08:14 PM   #9
zoomie
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The TC Contender kit had a legal configuration for both pistol and rifle.
And so can your AR as long as you have a rifle upper along with your pistol upper. They'd have a case if you have one lower and only one upper, but that wasn't implied or stated in the question I responded to.

Last edited by zoomie; May 21, 2024 at 08:26 PM.
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Old May 22, 2024, 06:33 PM   #10
dogtown tom
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Quote:
zoomie
Quote:
Quote:
The TC Contender kit had a legal configuration for both pistol and rifle.
And so can your AR as long as you have a rifle upper along with your pistol upper.
Careful. If "your AR" was originally a rifle, mere possession of a 7.5" upper means no lawful configuration as a Title I firearm. You have a lawful configuration as a rifle with a 16" barrel, but no lawful configuration with your 7.5" upper.

If you have other AR pistols or stripped lowers you can lawfully possess that 7.5" upper.

ONLY if the AR was originally assembled as a pistol can it be configured as a rifle and subsequently reconfigured as a pistol. As with the T/C kit.

If the AR was originally a rifle it cannot EVER be reconfigured as a pistol. It would be a "firearm made from a rifle" and subject to the NFA.

There are no such beasts as "rifle upper" or "pistol upper", just like there aren't "rifle lowers" or "pistol lowers".
Remember, you might have a 16" barrel, but less than 26"OAL.....and thats an NFA SBR.


Again,
You need to have a lawful configuration possible with the components in your possession.
Having a factory AR15 rifle with 16" bbl is fine....but being in possession of that 7.5" upper means you are in constructive possession of an SBR.

Quote:
They'd have a case if you have one lower and only one upper, but that wasn't implied or stated in the question I responded to.
A case for what?
Possession of "...one lower and only one upper..." isn't a violation of any federal law.
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Last edited by dogtown tom; May 22, 2024 at 06:39 PM.
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Old May 23, 2024, 10:02 AM   #11
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Quote:
They'd have a case if you have one lower and only one upper...
It's not really how many of either you have, the key is that you must to have a way to assemble any shorty upper you have into at least one legal configuration.

You could have a thousand rifle lowers and it would still be a problem to buy a shorty upper if you didn't also have at least one pistol lower. You need to have at least one pistol lower to make possessing a shorty upper legal without a tax stamp.
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Old May 23, 2024, 08:05 PM   #12
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Old June 10, 2024, 03:35 AM   #13
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This post is more of a question .
Do I understand correctly?
It is NOT legal advice ,as in "Do this and you are OK"

I believe I am OK to have a lower that was built to be a pistol that has a short featureless buffer tube and no brace or other buttstock like device attached..

And I also have rifle /carbine ARs with 16 in + barrels. Dedicated lowers.

I can own uppers with less than 16 in barrels that I can pin onto the lower that was built as a pistol so long as that upper does not have features that would put it in "any other weapon" class, such as handstops, foregrips, bipods ,etc. Everything is clean that way.
I have an extra short (Strike)buffer tube on my lower. I shoot with it spot welded under my cheekbone. The buffer tube does not even reach to my ear. By no stretch of the imagination is it designed or intended to be shoulder fired. Its not an option.

I require the gun be squeaky clean legal.

Let me know if I have it wrong per the BATF.
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Old June 12, 2024, 10:41 PM   #14
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Also you don't need to own the part to possess it. It would still be problematic if you merely borrow the upper from your buddy to just look at it. Be careful.

-TL

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