From a Legal Perspective, Are Modified to Select or Full Auto Only Pistols AOW or...

Gunnut17 · January 20, 2017, 03:26 AM

...Another category of NFA-controlled firearm?

In the same way a BAR from the time of Prohibition, and Clyde Barrow using one often in his exploits chronicled often in contemporary history and pop culture works of non-fiction and fiction alike could be considered antiques, especially given the NFA and other Federal legislative rules and laws say anything select fire post-1986 is illegal, period, for American civilian ownership, despite such a well-aged and historically significant LMG/Battle Rifle (I forget what BAR's are classified as.) as the BAR being potentially legally an antique if rendering non-firing, or built and registered in the US pre-1986, what would the NFA and other Federal laws in the US say about an open bolt Ingram pistol with a modified firing pin and hammer assembly for the sake of making it FAO or Select Fire be, legally, classified as in the US as per NFA and BATFE laws and regulations?

Cheers from a legally apt young man in the States, curious and concerned about such things as of his 18th birthday recently.

ShootistPRS · January 20, 2017, 05:06 AM

Actually the NFA (national firearms act of 1934) made any gun capable of full auto a controlled gun which requires a tax stamp and involved background check and a waiting period of ?six months? before you can buy such a weapon.

The 1968 GCA (gun control act) had nothing to do with select fire or full auto guns. It regulated interstate transfers of guns and their definitions.

rkbanet · January 20, 2017, 10:51 AM

This is not correct the GCA 1968 made ALL NFA firearms that are imported NON-transferable, because of the sporting clause. That is why you never see IMPORTED FACTORY MADE NFA weapons for sale. For example you do not see ORIGINAL factory HK MP5's for sale. HK imported many from 1968 to 1986 and these are not transferable (ie "pre-samples"). This is also why you do not see new manufacture ORIGINAL FACTORY IMPORTED SBS'S, SBR's and suppressors.

dakota.potts · January 20, 2017, 11:36 AM

If it fires more than one bullet per function of the trigger or can be readily made to do so, it's a machine gun. All of the other functions of the gun cease to be important at that point.

T. O'Heir · January 20, 2017, 01:22 PM

Clyde Barrow wouldn't have paid the tax on his stolen(came out of National Guard Armouries) LMG even if there had been such a thing. Criminals don't follow the law.
"...post-1986 is illegal, period..." As I recall, it's making new FA firearms or importing 'em.
"...could be considered antiques..." Highly simplified, antiques are defined as being made prior to 1898. No BAR(A Light Machine Gun) until 1918.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearm...itions-antique
"...or can be readily made to do so..." Any semi-auto can be readily made FA with no tools or extra steel parts. An FAL can be made FA with a wooden match. The 'Once an MG, Always an MG' nonsense is a regulation made into a law by unelected civil servants. Who then exported their daft ideas to our lot.

dakota.potts · January 20, 2017, 02:30 PM

You are right that any semi auto can be made full auto easily, at least in some haphazard way (such as allowing the gun to runaway until the magazine empties). However, open bolt semi automatics and some other designs are considered machine guns by the ATF on the merit of how easy they are to convert. So it can be an important distinction.

Theohazard · January 20, 2017, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShootistPRS

Actually the NFA (national firearms act of 1934) made any gun capable of full auto a controlled gun which requires a tax stamp and involved background check and a waiting period of ?six months? before you can buy such a weapon.

There is no waiting period for an NFA firearm. A "waiting period" is an artificially-set amount of time intended to give the purchaser a "cooling off" period before taking possession of a firearm.

The wait for an NFA item is simply the time it takes them to process the paperwork at that moment. If an ATF examiner decided to take your submission and process it right away, then it would only take few days to get it approved, and most of that would be the time it took in the mail both ways. That said, they almost always process them in the order received, so it tends to take a few months to several months or more, depending on the backlog.

I have 7 tax stamps for NFA items, and the processing time ranged from 4 months to almost 12 months.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShootistPRS

The 1968 GCA (gun control act) had nothing to do with select fire or full auto guns.

Yes it did, it banned imported machine guns from being sold to the general public.

January 20, 2017, 03:26 AM	#1
Gunnut17 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2012 Location: Kitsap County, WA, USA Posts: 445	From a Legal Perspective, Are Modified to Select or Full Auto Only Pistols AOW or... ...Another category of NFA-controlled firearm? In the same way a BAR from the time of Prohibition, and Clyde Barrow using one often in his exploits chronicled often in contemporary history and pop culture works of non-fiction and fiction alike could be considered antiques, especially given the NFA and other Federal legislative rules and laws say anything select fire post-1986 is illegal, period, for American civilian ownership, despite such a well-aged and historically significant LMG/Battle Rifle (I forget what BAR's are classified as.) as the BAR being potentially legally an antique if rendering non-firing, or built and registered in the US pre-1986, what would the NFA and other Federal laws in the US say about an open bolt Ingram pistol with a modified firing pin and hammer assembly for the sake of making it FAO or Select Fire be, legally, classified as in the US as per NFA and BATFE laws and regulations? Cheers from a legally apt young man in the States, curious and concerned about such things as of his 18th birthday recently.

January 20, 2017, 11:36 AM	#4
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	If it fires more than one bullet per function of the trigger or can be readily made to do so, it's a machine gun. All of the other functions of the gun cease to be important at that point. __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

January 20, 2017, 01:22 PM	#5
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Clyde Barrow wouldn't have paid the tax on his stolen(came out of National Guard Armouries) LMG even if there had been such a thing. Criminals don't follow the law. "...post-1986 is illegal, period..." As I recall, it's making new FA firearms or importing 'em. "...could be considered antiques..." Highly simplified, antiques are defined as being made prior to 1898. No BAR(A Light Machine Gun) until 1918. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearm...itions-antique "...or can be readily made to do so..." Any semi-auto can be readily made FA with no tools or extra steel parts. An FAL can be made FA with a wooden match. The 'Once an MG, Always an MG' nonsense is a regulation made into a law by unelected civil servants. Who then exported their daft ideas to our lot. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

January 20, 2017, 02:30 PM	#6
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	You are right that any semi auto can be made full auto easily, at least in some haphazard way (such as allowing the gun to runaway until the magazine empties). However, open bolt semi automatics and some other designs are considered machine guns by the ATF on the merit of how easy they are to convert. So it can be an important distinction. __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

January 20, 2017, 05:06 AM	#2
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	Actually the NFA (national firearms act of 1934) made any gun capable of full auto a controlled gun which requires a tax stamp and involved background check and a waiting period of ?six months? before you can buy such a weapon. The 1968 GCA (gun control act) had nothing to do with select fire or full auto guns. It regulated interstate transfers of guns and their definitions.

January 20, 2017, 10:51 AM	#3
rkbanet Member Join Date: April 16, 2012 Posts: 64	This is not correct the GCA 1968 made ALL NFA firearms that are imported NON-transferable, because of the sporting clause. That is why you never see IMPORTED FACTORY MADE NFA weapons for sale. For example you do not see ORIGINAL factory HK MP5's for sale. HK imported many from 1968 to 1986 and these are not transferable (ie "pre-samples"). This is also why you do not see new manufacture ORIGINAL FACTORY IMPORTED SBS'S, SBR's and suppressors.