Anyone else hate RCBS DIES - Page 3

Whistlebritches · January 3, 2018, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavitation

Does anyone despise RCBS dies as much as I do?

I hate there roll crimp
I hate there adjustments
I have them in 308,30/30,444M,35Rem, and they all suck.

How do you feel about them

If you truly hate them that much I'd be more than happy to take those 308 and 30~30 dies off your hands.All my other dies are RCBS..........just haven't gotten round to purchasing dies for the new editions in the family.

reynolds357 · January 3, 2018, 08:44 PM

If you hate RCBS, who do you like? Grade for grade, RCBS, Redding, Forster, Hornaday, and Lyman all seem about the same to me. Lee is in my opinion sub-standard, but we all know what opinions are like.

GeauxTide · January 4, 2018, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Hate is a pretty tough way to address RCBS. I've been using their dies for probably 50 years, along with a few other brands along the way. Anytime I had a minor problem, they were very receptive and did their best to keep me going.

I use Hornady, Lee, Lyman, Redding, and RCBS. I had a problem with the expansion plug/decapper piece on a 30-06 set. RCBS sent me a new piece and 6 decapping pins and paid the shipping.

joed · January 4, 2018, 05:28 PM

The problem with crimping is that the die is trying to seat a bullet and produce a crimp at the same time. It's very fussy about adjustment because of the fact that it is trying to do 2 things at once.

I purchased Lee FCD dies for anything that I need to crimp. They produce a crimp that looks just like factory ammo and works great.

higgite · January 4, 2018, 09:33 PM

Quote:

The problem with crimping is that the die is trying to seat a bullet and produce a crimp at the same time.

I keep hearing/reading that but I haven't found it to be a problem with 9mm and .45ACP. By the time the die actually starts crimping, the bullet is almost fully seated. But, I don't actually crimp those loads, just remove the case mouth flare. I can see roll crimping might be a problem, but not light taper crimping.

Geezerbiker · January 5, 2018, 01:54 AM

I'll never buy another set of Hornady dies. On most calibers they leave out the neck vent hole. I got rid of my .22 K-Hornet and .300 Blackout dies. I now load the K-Hornet with RCBS dies and Lee for the blackout. I find Lee dies to be acceptable for reloading but a little more work to adjust and clean.

I'm stuck with Hornady dies for the .17 Hornady Hornet but at least they drilled the vent hole on these...

I would have gone with RCBS for 7.5mm Swiss but RCBS thinks dies less common rounds should cost like they're made of gold...

Tony

**44 AMP** · January 5, 2018, 02:48 AM

Hate RCBS dies? Not in the least. If I were to pick a brand I like least, it would be LEE!

Quote:

The problem with crimping is that the die is trying to seat a bullet and produce a crimp at the same time.

If you know what you're doing, and adjust your dies correctly, its not a problem. I've been doing it for close to 50 years, and its been done since the beginning of metallic cartridge reloading.

A separate crimp die may make it easier for you, but I think its a tool that simply isn't needed.

Road_Clam · January 6, 2018, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

If I were to pick a brand I like least, it would be LEE!

Wait... let me take a guess, "you hate there roll crimp" as well ?

F. Guffey · January 6, 2018, 10:42 AM

Quote:

A separate crimp die may make it easier for you, but I think its a tool that simply isn't needed.

Before the Internet: Lyman claimed crimping while seating bullets was a bad habit. They claimed crimping while seating can reduce bullet hold ( that was before reloaders invented tension). Later Dillon said the same thing; crimping while the bullet is moving upsets the case body/shoulder juncture. When the reloaders does not master crimping while seating can cause the case to bulge and the reloader to require theory because the bolt will not close.

F. Guffey

**44 AMP** · January 6, 2018, 12:10 PM

Quote:

..crimping while the bullet is moving..

What press & dies do that?? I don't know of any!
Every seating die I know works the same way. It STOPS the bullet from moving (using the seating stem) and the case is pushed up over the bullet base.

The bullet doesn't move during seating (or crimping) the CASE does.

I can see where someone who makes/sell dies would say seating and crimping in the same step is a bad idea. They want to sell crimp dies.

I don't remember ever seeing LYMAN say it was a bad idea, but then, I know I haven't seen everything LYMAN ever said. It does, however seem odd, if they said it, seeing as they make dies that do it, and (back in the 70s at least) their instructions told you how to do it.

I'm amazed at the number of people, today, who can operate a computer, get on the Internet and post in a forum, but can't seem to manage adjusting a seating die correctly. It is a ridiculously simple process, compared to many other things we do daily.

reynolds357 · January 6, 2018, 02:56 PM

Quote:

What press & dies do that?? I don't know of any!

RCBS Summitt

Real Gun · January 6, 2018, 03:40 PM

Seems to me that a separate crimp die could provide more crimp than a combo die would allow. In a seat/crimp die, if the bullet locks up while the ram can still move, the case collapses, and you have a round that won't gauge of plunk. You go to a Lee Crimp die to iron it out. Seems to me that less crimp is always the answer, but under magnification it may not be the degree of crimp you really want. There are also rounds that don't quite plunk into a gauge or test chamber that once given a little more crimp off to the side on a single stage using a dedicated crimp die, all is suddenly well. I see that sort of thing only with lead bullets and maybe with a bit much lube involved.

Northof50 · January 6, 2018, 08:21 PM

...for my shooting. You can get a micrometer adjustment dies as well.

onespeedbiker · January 7, 2018, 01:13 AM

The only problem with RCBS dies I have had is their 357sig forming die. RCBS is the only die maker that forms 357sig cases to headspace on the case mouth rather than the shoulder. The end result is as the case stretches the neck becomes progressively shorter while the length between the case and shoulder increases, until bullet will not chamber. Other than that I have both RCBS and Lee dies that work without any issues.

rodfac · January 7, 2018, 09:07 AM

To the OP: NO

Good post 44AMP:

Quote:

I'm amazed at the number of people, today, who can operate a computer, get on the Internet and post in a forum, but can't seem to manage adjusting a seating die correctly. It is a ridiculously simple process, compared to many other things we do daily

<<<WE HAVE A WINNER HERE>>>

**44 AMP** · January 7, 2018, 01:41 PM

Quote:

What press & dies do that?? I don't know of any!

Quote:

RCBS Summitt

Thanks for the heads up. I was unaware of that model, though I must admit I haven't been keeping up on what "new" presses have come out in recent years. My O and C frame presses from the 70s work just fine, so I haven't been looking much at what else there is out there.

Seems like a clever solution in search of a problem to me.

I can see where the "top down" system could have some quirks/problems that don't appear in the usual designs.

Quote:

Seems to me that a separate crimp die could provide more crimp than a combo die would allow.

Other than allowing for a slight dimensional difference between different die makers products, I don's see how the crimp only die and the seat & crimp die could provide different amounts of crimp, other than by the user adjusting them differently.

Quote:

In a seat/crimp die, if the bullet locks up while the ram can still move, the case collapses, and you have a round that won't gauge of plunk.

If the die is adjusted correctly, this does not happen, unless something "goes wrong", and that, is the responsibility of the user.

Quote:

You go to a Lee Crimp die to iron it out.

I don't.

Quote:

Seems to me that less crimp is always the answer,

Less crimp is not always the answer. And giving rounds

Quote:

a little more crimp off to the side on a single stage using a dedicated crimp die

is a (possible) fix for a user caused error. (and it can be done with a standard seater/crimp die as well, adjusted to only crimp.)

I'm talking about roll crimping here, pistol and rifle rounds, lead and jacketed bullets. There are a couple of simple steps that need to be done, before seating & crimping the bullet, but once done, nearly all issues with seating & crimping in one step go away.

The first step is you need a bullet that has some place for the case to be crimped into. The second step is your brass needs to be uniform in length.

If you don't do both of these, you ARE going to have problems. Every problem with crimping comes down to a matter of proper adjustment of the die, for the specific case being crimped.

If your cases are not uniform in length, then some are longer than others. If you adjust your die using a "long" case, then a shorter one gets too little, or no crimp. If you set your die using a short case, then longer ones get over crimped, and that is what causes "ripples" (bulges) in the case neck, and in extreme cases, bulged shoulders that will not chamber.

Seating the bullet in the "wrong" place creates the same issues and results. Seating the bullet so the cannelure /crimp groove does not line up properly with the case mouth gives the case no where to go when it is crimped, and results in the same bulges in the case.

You can, and I have, loaded and crimped rounds that were not uniform in case length. To do that, without over or under crimping, literally requires adjusting the die for each and every individual case, both for seating depth and amount of crimp. It is tedious, and very time consuming, but working carefully, it can be done.

It's much simpler and easier to just trim all your brass to a uniform length before loading. .38 Special to .30-30 to .458Win mag, uniform length brass eliminates most crimping issues.

YOU still have to correctly adjust your dies, but uniform case length means that once you do correctly adjust your dies, the adjustment is correct for all the cases you are going to load.

Real Gun · January 7, 2018, 02:04 PM

44 AMP, I don't think you understood what I wrote, and you seem needlessly argumentative and smug here. You can't argue with my experience, only the assumptions made or conclusions drawn. When a combo die is not in fact able to handle all the variables, regardless of adjustment, and indeed following the setup instructions, you use whatever options are available to get ammo you can use. There are no awards for avoiding a separate crimp die and no credibility for those who try to say that every one of their rounds passes gauging on the first try. Note though that I don't judge rounds on how they plunk in a specific gun's forgiving chamber. I load to a cartridge gauge because I usually have more than one gun for a specific cartridge. If a single gun needs something all that customized, I get rid of it. The exception to my gauging is that Lyman's 327 Federal Magnum gauge is tight, while the Ruger Single Seven cylinder freely accepts the rounds. There is nothing I have found that will make the gauging work, because the sizer does not get close enough to the case head. I am thinking of having the gauge reamed for a fraction at the mouth.

243winxb · January 7, 2018, 06:48 PM

Quote:

I mostly had trouble with the roll crimp on them.

Trim all brass to the same length.

Seat the bullet to the COL you want , without crimping.

Back out the seating stem so no contact is made with the bullet.

Turn the die down by hand, setting the crimp. Lock. Adjust seating stem.

jhansman · January 8, 2018, 05:15 PM

To address the OP's question, no. Don't hate 'em, just don't use 'em. Lots and lots of choices our there. I get lost in this notion of "better."

pete2 · January 8, 2018, 07:55 PM

RCBS is my first choice, Lee is a last resort for me. The only dies I've ever had a problem with was Lee .45 ACP. Plus no way to lock the bullet seating depth on them. Lees are marginal.

KenT7021 · January 8, 2018, 08:16 PM

Preferred die brands:1 RCBS
2 Lyman
3 Pacific DuraChrome
4 CH
5 Herters
6 Lee
I can't comment on Redding or Forster dies as I have never used them.

Geezerbiker · January 15, 2018, 11:52 PM

Said by no one, I hate their warranty... RCBS has the best warranty in the business. I called to order a few parts for a couple sets of used dies I bought only to have them send them to me for free...

Tony

January 4, 2018, 05:28 PM	#54
joed Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2014 Posts: 442	The problem with crimping is that the die is trying to seat a bullet and produce a crimp at the same time. It's very fussy about adjustment because of the fact that it is trying to do 2 things at once. I purchased Lee FCD dies for anything that I need to crimp. They produce a crimp that looks just like factory ammo and works great. __________________ The 6 gun was once as common as the cellphone is today, and just as annoying when it went off in the theater.

January 6, 2018, 03:40 PM	#62
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	Seems to me that a separate crimp die could provide more crimp than a combo die would allow. In a seat/crimp die, if the bullet locks up while the ram can still move, the case collapses, and you have a round that won't gauge of plunk. You go to a Lee Crimp die to iron it out. Seems to me that less crimp is always the answer, but under magnification it may not be the degree of crimp you really want. There are also rounds that don't quite plunk into a gauge or test chamber that once given a little more crimp off to the side on a single stage using a dedicated crimp die, all is suddenly well. I see that sort of thing only with lead bullets and maybe with a bit much lube involved. __________________ Not an expert, just a reporter.

January 6, 2018, 08:21 PM	#63
Northof50 Junior member Join Date: January 5, 2018 Location: Northeast USA Posts: 232	RCBS is the standard... ...for my shooting. You can get a micrometer adjustment dies as well.

January 7, 2018, 02:04 PM	#67
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	44 AMP, I don't think you understood what I wrote, and you seem needlessly argumentative and smug here. You can't argue with my experience, only the assumptions made or conclusions drawn. When a combo die is not in fact able to handle all the variables, regardless of adjustment, and indeed following the setup instructions, you use whatever options are available to get ammo you can use. There are no awards for avoiding a separate crimp die and no credibility for those who try to say that every one of their rounds passes gauging on the first try. Note though that I don't judge rounds on how they plunk in a specific gun's forgiving chamber. I load to a cartridge gauge because I usually have more than one gun for a specific cartridge. If a single gun needs something all that customized, I get rid of it. The exception to my gauging is that Lyman's 327 Federal Magnum gauge is tight, while the Ruger Single Seven cylinder freely accepts the rounds. There is nothing I have found that will make the gauging work, because the sizer does not get close enough to the case head. I am thinking of having the gauge reamed for a fraction at the mouth. __________________ Not an expert, just a reporter.

January 8, 2018, 05:15 PM	#69
jhansman Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2007 Posts: 680	To address the OP's question, no. Don't hate 'em, just don't use 'em. Lots and lots of choices our there. I get lost in this notion of "better." __________________ Blessed is the man who has nothing to say, and cannot be compelled to say it.

January 3, 2018, 08:44 PM	#52
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	If you hate RCBS, who do you like? Grade for grade, RCBS, Redding, Forster, Hornaday, and Lyman all seem about the same to me. Lee is in my opinion sub-standard, but we all know what opinions are like.

January 5, 2018, 01:54 AM	#56
Geezerbiker Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Location: Willamina, OR Posts: 1,908	I'll never buy another set of Hornady dies. On most calibers they leave out the neck vent hole. I got rid of my .22 K-Hornet and .300 Blackout dies. I now load the K-Hornet with RCBS dies and Lee for the blackout. I find Lee dies to be acceptable for reloading but a little more work to adjust and clean. I'm stuck with Hornady dies for the .17 Hornady Hornet but at least they drilled the vent hole on these... I would have gone with RCBS for 7.5mm Swiss but RCBS thinks dies less common rounds should cost like they're made of gold... Tony

January 7, 2018, 01:13 AM	#64
onespeedbiker Member Join Date: January 5, 2018 Posts: 16	The only problem with RCBS dies I have had is their 357sig forming die. RCBS is the only die maker that forms 357sig cases to headspace on the case mouth rather than the shoulder. The end result is as the case stretches the neck becomes progressively shorter while the length between the case and shoulder increases, until bullet will not chamber. Other than that I have both RCBS and Lee dies that work without any issues.

January 8, 2018, 07:55 PM	#70
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	RCBS is my first choice, Lee is a last resort for me. The only dies I've ever had a problem with was Lee .45 ACP. Plus no way to lock the bullet seating depth on them. Lees are marginal.

January 8, 2018, 08:16 PM	#71
KenT7021 Member Join Date: September 11, 2016 Posts: 29	Preferred die brands:1 RCBS 2 Lyman 3 Pacific DuraChrome 4 CH 5 Herters 6 Lee I can't comment on Redding or Forster dies as I have never used them.

January 15, 2018, 11:52 PM	#72
Geezerbiker Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Location: Willamina, OR Posts: 1,908	Said by no one, I hate their warranty... RCBS has the best warranty in the business. I called to order a few parts for a couple sets of used dies I bought only to have them send them to me for free... Tony