strange case creasing problem

Grey_Lion · November 10, 2018, 03:40 PM

have a problem I can't quite seem to diagnose to my satisfaction so I'm fishing for suggestions -

I've got my swaged .40 JHPs I've mentioned before.

Thing is - of late, when I seat them into the brass, they form a crease in the case .

The crease is not overly profound and doesn't prevent the round from chambering.

Thinking that perhaps over time and 800+ rounds, the sizing die used in forming the projectile on the swage press may have expanded, I took out my regular sizing die for .40 intending to pass the JHP's through them, but nay nay..... - the JHPs practically fell through the sizing die - projectile size is not the issue.....

The only thing I can come up with is that the lee bullet seating die , being made for shorter standard pistol projectiles, does not support the case sufficiently to the depth of my swaged JHP's - and the prolonged pressure of the seating operation slightly creases the case.....

Another thought that came to mind is some of these .40 cases have been fired and reloaded multiple times ( as is evidences by the glock ring further towards the head of the case ) and this is the last time I'll be reloading this brass as it won't pass my inspection the next time through.

Thoughts?

**Unclenick** · November 10, 2018, 03:46 PM

That's not a crease. It's just mirroring the location of the base of the bullet underneath. The sizing die makes the case smaller than the bullet, so putting the bullet in swells it back out again, but only as far as the bullet base goes.

You may not notice this on commercial loads because the newly produced case has slightly tapered sides. But your carbide sizing ring is just one diameter, so it makes the case straight as far back as it goes, exaggerating the appearance of that mirroring.

In your image, you can see the bullet base stopped at 7.4 cm on your ruler. The sizing ring stopped at the 7.9 cm mark. Between those two points, you can see the case is narrower than at the bullet and the reflection of the ruler marks are bent to a slight splay because of the ends of the narrow area widening back outward and pulling the brass into curves at the ends of the remaining resized portion.

Bottom line: it's normal. Go shooting.

mikld · November 10, 2018, 07:23 PM

Did you use a Lee FCD? Or perhaps the seat/crimp die rubbed on the slight bulge from the bullet's base?

std7mag · November 10, 2018, 07:28 PM

It is just as Unclenick said.
I've run into it mostly with heavier (longer) bullets.
If you are using the Lee factory crimp die, it is supposed to help smooth some of that out. But it won't get it all.

Grey_Lion · November 10, 2018, 09:49 PM

The crease happens whilst seating the bullet before going into the factory crimp die. The crimp operation doesn't appear to worsen the case crease.

I'm inclined to go with Unclenick's notion of what's happening.

k4swb · November 11, 2018, 07:52 AM

I only ever bell/flair the brass mouth. I do not use a case expander and allow the bullet to expand the case as it is seated.

I like it when I can see the bullet profile in my loaded ammo. Makes me know my brass has a good friction hold on the bullet.

LE-28 · November 11, 2018, 06:38 PM

It's exactly what Uncle Nick said it is. Redding came out with a dual ring sizing die to alleviate that. The lower ring is slightly larger than the ring in a single ring die so it doesn't overwork the entire case from full length resizing.
https://www.redding-reloading.com/on...g-carbide-dies

With your swaged bullets, I have no idea how they would look. I would think they would work just fine. They are not cheap though and are offered in .40S&W

I would think a dual ring would be easier on your cases than a single ring die because of how deep you bullets are seated.

Grey_Lion · November 11, 2018, 07:25 PM

Had a chat with the die maker and he had one suggestion to try - set the bullet shallower for as much tolerance as my weapons would handle to reduce the crease due to the case taper. I'll see what I can get away with.
As these chamber fine in all my weapons, this issue is one of aesthetics and one of keeping the brass for future reloads with no crease.
But as I got a new swaging die over the summer that starts with a .40 case, I might just relegate all these cases to that effort going forward.

November 10, 2018, 03:46 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	That's not a crease. It's just mirroring the location of the base of the bullet underneath. The sizing die makes the case smaller than the bullet, so putting the bullet in swells it back out again, but only as far as the bullet base goes. You may not notice this on commercial loads because the newly produced case has slightly tapered sides. But your carbide sizing ring is just one diameter, so it makes the case straight as far back as it goes, exaggerating the appearance of that mirroring. In your image, you can see the bullet base stopped at 7.4 cm on your ruler. The sizing ring stopped at the 7.9 cm mark. Between those two points, you can see the case is narrower than at the bullet and the reflection of the ruler marks are bent to a slight splay because of the ends of the narrow area widening back outward and pulling the brass into curves at the ends of the remaining resized portion. Bottom line: it's normal. Go shooting. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

November 10, 2018, 07:23 PM	#3
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	Did you use a Lee FCD? Or perhaps the seat/crimp die rubbed on the slight bulge from the bullet's base? __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

November 10, 2018, 07:28 PM	#4
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	It is just as Unclenick said. I've run into it mostly with heavier (longer) bullets. If you are using the Lee factory crimp die, it is supposed to help smooth some of that out. But it won't get it all. __________________ When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope...

November 11, 2018, 07:52 AM	#6
k4swb Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2009 Posts: 389	I only ever bell/flair the brass mouth. I do not use a case expander and allow the bullet to expand the case as it is seated. I like it when I can see the bullet profile in my loaded ammo. Makes me know my brass has a good friction hold on the bullet. __________________ My posts are things I have tried or experienced. You may or may not wish to emulate them so read them with this in mind. Compromise means that both sides give something, but they never give, they just take. I'm The NRA!

November 10, 2018, 09:49 PM	#5
Grey_Lion Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2018 Location: Baton Rouge - Louisiana Posts: 407	The crease happens whilst seating the bullet before going into the factory crimp die. The crimp operation doesn't appear to worsen the case crease. I'm inclined to go with Unclenick's notion of what's happening.

November 11, 2018, 06:38 PM	#7
LE-28 Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2012 Location: North Carolina Posts: 759	It's exactly what Uncle Nick said it is. Redding came out with a dual ring sizing die to alleviate that. The lower ring is slightly larger than the ring in a single ring die so it doesn't overwork the entire case from full length resizing. https://www.redding-reloading.com/on...g-carbide-dies With your swaged bullets, I have no idea how they would look. I would think they would work just fine. They are not cheap though and are offered in .40S&W I would think a dual ring would be easier on your cases than a single ring die because of how deep you bullets are seated.

November 11, 2018, 07:25 PM	#8
Grey_Lion Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2018 Location: Baton Rouge - Louisiana Posts: 407	Had a chat with the die maker and he had one suggestion to try - set the bullet shallower for as much tolerance as my weapons would handle to reduce the crease due to the case taper. I'll see what I can get away with. As these chamber fine in all my weapons, this issue is one of aesthetics and one of keeping the brass for future reloads with no crease. But as I got a new swaging die over the summer that starts with a .40 case, I might just relegate all these cases to that effort going forward.