Shooting a wet rifle?

LoadIt · September 6, 2005, 11:36 AM

Recently I have been seeing a commercial on TV for the United Stated Navy. In it, you see S.E.A.L.s diving and then coming up out of the water with their M-4 cabines at the ready.

As soon as they come up out of the water, if they had to fire their weapon, what are the chances of the wet barrel's blowing up? Does water drain out of the M-4 ,or any other firearm, that easily? I also noticed that the ejecton port cover was closed. Would that make a difference?

281 Quad Cam · September 6, 2005, 11:55 AM

I think it would work best with the action held open untill your out of the water, than release the bolt and begin the fun. I dont think that a .22 inch diameter rifled tube of 14-20 inches will drain well if one end is clogged. However with the bolt open the barrel and gas tube should drain pretty quick. Im not sure what it is that makes the AR-15 unable to fire wet though. If it is water in the gas system, barrel, or bolt/gas seals that is dangerous. But slappin the bolt shut oughta shake some water off too.

Doing either probably isn't too safe, whenever I've seen videos of an AR-15 being fired wet, the firer drops the mag and works the action about 5 times before reloading and firing.

AK's fire underwater, right?

zzirg · September 6, 2005, 12:33 PM

I have seen a study where these guys took a rifle and fired it underwater to see what it would do and it fired with no problems , they did not however use a chronograph to test the velocity i would suspectd a dramatic loss of velocity under water. I would by no means try this experiment my self.

LoadIt · September 6, 2005, 12:41 PM

Maybe under water the shrapnel would slow when the weapon blows up too?

Bravo25 · September 6, 2005, 12:48 PM

A straight blow back, or revolver can be fired safely underwater, from the videos I have seen. As long as the weapon is completely underwater, and not just the barrel. A gas operated one would probably cycle once or twice. My understanding is the problem occurs when there is unequal pressure such as the weapon being out of the water, but yet water still remains in the barrel. Sorry I can not find the link to the video any longer. I am not sure that I would want to try it unless I was left with no alternative though. And no kids DON'T try this at home!

TPAW · September 6, 2005, 05:18 PM

During my training, and if water was to be encountered, the first round would be a "blank", no projectile. It was sufficient enough to blow the water out of the barrell for the following "live" rounds.

QuickTrig · September 6, 2005, 05:24 PM

Good question Loadit, I to have always wondered this and Im glad you brought it up. I always thought that having water in the barrel would be a surefire way to blow the gun sky high. I was always taught never to let ANYTHING get in the barrel of your gun, especially while hunting (better chance of this happening)

Very interesting either way.

stephen426 · September 6, 2005, 05:26 PM

Quote:

During my training, and if water was to be encountered, the first round would be a "blank", no projectile. It was sufficient enough to blow the water out of the barrell for the following "live" rounds.

Would you still have to cycle the slide by hand? Most blanks won't cycle a gun right? If you had to rack the slide by hand, wouldn't that get out most of the water? I'm not arguing... just asking.

281 Quad Cam · September 6, 2005, 08:37 PM

Well as far as racking a slide... I dont think we are talking pistols here, a 4 inch 9mm barrel ought to have no trouble draining water out simply by pointing horizontal... A quick tipping motion is a guarantee. However that is not even required.

The trouble is a very long rifle bore and gas system which on a .223 weapon holds water... Something like putting your finger on one end of a straw and pulling the straw out of your drink. Itll hold water. Water tension is enough to hold it in with a narrow opening. Pistols ofcourse have much wider barrels.

I have seen videos of weapons fired underwater, perhaps not properly cycling, but not exploding either. The AR-15 however has a possible true rumor that it could outright explode in your hands if it is even wet, nevermind underwater.

TPAW · September 6, 2005, 09:08 PM

stephen asks..........

Quote:

Would you still have to cycle the slide by hand?

No, the charge in the cartridge was powerful enough to cycle the slide.
If I remember correctly, unlike the one's they used for field training, these had a red (flat) tip to indicate a hotter charge, and the firing cap (primer) was darker than the rest of the casing. I very rarely saw them used.
Probably similiar in power to the one's used to launch a rifle grenade in the old M-1's and perhaps the M-14?

TPAW · September 6, 2005, 09:18 PM

281 Quad Cam says.........

Quote:

The AR-15 however has a possible true rumor that it could outright explode in your hands if it is even wet, nevermind underwater.

I don't doubt that what you say could happen, anything is possible and nothing would surprise me. However, after spending a year in the infantry in Vietnam, and exposed to all types of weather, including the monsoon rains which saturated everything you had including your weapon, I never saw one explode. Go figure?

jtv3062 · September 6, 2005, 10:04 PM

i read somwhere that the m 14 is safe to fire right out of the water and thats one of the reasons the seals still use that rifle

Death from Afar · September 7, 2005, 03:33 PM

We were testing a very popular modle of sniper rifle once for general issue and the difference that water on the barrel made in group size was quite staggering. I dont think I can tell you what make mind you !

Dre_sa · September 7, 2005, 04:23 PM

dont they use condoms over the muzzle held tight with elastic bands? and a round chambered to block the other end?

281 Quad Cam · September 7, 2005, 04:52 PM

When condoms are available, that is the best idea. However like I said, I dont know what it is that causes the AR-15 in particular to have so many rumors about blowing up if fired wet. If it is water in the reciever that is the issue, a condom wouldn't help.

Does anyone here actually know if its true, or how this rumor got started?

Gunsmoke enterprises had hosted a torture test video where the firer dunked the AR in water and procedes to say that if you fire an AR-15 wet it will explode in your hands. Now i dont think that this guy is the greatest AR-15 expert by any means... But the myth/rumor goes beyond one or two people. Right around 4 minutes, 15 seconds.

http://www.gunsmokeenterprises.net/v...nd%20Video.wmv

LoadIt · September 8, 2005, 12:24 PM

Just watched the video. Nice ponytail. Anyway, towards the end of the video, the guy said that the rate of fire slowed down because the multiple dunkings got water and sand in the buffer tube. No blown weapon though. He seemed to just let the water drain out of the barrel, work the action, load another mag and keep going. I definately would not want to fire one under water though.

Zak Smith · September 8, 2005, 04:03 PM

Quote:

We were testing a very popular modle of sniper rifle once for general issue and the difference that water on the barrel made in group size was quite staggering. I dont think I can tell you what make mind you !

I have a mind to go test this, since I suspect I know what you're talking about. I have swabbed water on the barrel of my AW from a wet washcloth and it made no difference, but that's not much water either.

shaggy · September 8, 2005, 05:12 PM

I think it was last year, but someone on AR15.com tried firing their Bushmaster underwater. The gun did blow-up. As I recall, it was almost completely FUBAR - the upper was destroyed as well as the lower. Simply getting the weapon wet or even well-soaked won't do it, but trying to fire one underwater is begging for trouble. That said, a quick tip of the barrel should empty things out enough to safely fire, but pull the charging handle back and let some air in to be 100% sure.

Death from Afar · September 11, 2005, 03:30 PM

Zak, the rifle had water sprinkled on it from a watering can to replicate heavy rain. AMAZING difference. It wont affect your AW i can tell you.

September 6, 2005, 11:36 AM	#1
LoadIt Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 269	Shooting a wet rifle? Recently I have been seeing a commercial on TV for the United Stated Navy. In it, you see S.E.A.L.s diving and then coming up out of the water with their M-4 cabines at the ready. As soon as they come up out of the water, if they had to fire their weapon, what are the chances of the wet barrel's blowing up? Does water drain out of the M-4 ,or any other firearm, that easily? I also noticed that the ejecton port cover was closed. Would that make a difference?

September 6, 2005, 11:55 AM	#2
281 Quad Cam Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 937	I think it would work best with the action held open untill your out of the water, than release the bolt and begin the fun. I dont think that a .22 inch diameter rifled tube of 14-20 inches will drain well if one end is clogged. However with the bolt open the barrel and gas tube should drain pretty quick. Im not sure what it is that makes the AR-15 unable to fire wet though. If it is water in the gas system, barrel, or bolt/gas seals that is dangerous. But slappin the bolt shut oughta shake some water off too. Doing either probably isn't too safe, whenever I've seen videos of an AR-15 being fired wet, the firer drops the mag and works the action about 5 times before reloading and firing. AK's fire underwater, right? __________________ "Whats the first aid procedure for consumption of coolant?"

September 6, 2005, 12:48 PM	#5
Bravo25 Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 432	A straight blow back, or revolver can be fired safely underwater, from the videos I have seen. As long as the weapon is completely underwater, and not just the barrel. A gas operated one would probably cycle once or twice. My understanding is the problem occurs when there is unequal pressure such as the weapon being out of the water, but yet water still remains in the barrel. Sorry I can not find the link to the video any longer. I am not sure that I would want to try it unless I was left with no alternative though. And no kids DON'T try this at home! __________________ If more laws restricting our rights will make us free from harm, why aren't we safe yet? We are only less free. When faced with impossible overwhelming odds, prudance would dictate the only thing left is to figure out what is possible, and to do it. Punishment for all crimes should increase until the recitivism rate approaches zero.

September 6, 2005, 08:37 PM	#9
281 Quad Cam Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 937	Well as far as racking a slide... I dont think we are talking pistols here, a 4 inch 9mm barrel ought to have no trouble draining water out simply by pointing horizontal... A quick tipping motion is a guarantee. However that is not even required. The trouble is a very long rifle bore and gas system which on a .223 weapon holds water... Something like putting your finger on one end of a straw and pulling the straw out of your drink. Itll hold water. Water tension is enough to hold it in with a narrow opening. Pistols ofcourse have much wider barrels. I have seen videos of weapons fired underwater, perhaps not properly cycling, but not exploding either. The AR-15 however has a possible true rumor that it could outright explode in your hands if it is even wet, nevermind underwater. __________________ "Whats the first aid procedure for consumption of coolant?"

September 7, 2005, 03:33 PM	#13
Death from Afar Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2004 Location: Living the dream in Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND Posts: 1,635	We were testing a very popular modle of sniper rifle once for general issue and the difference that water on the barrel made in group size was quite staggering. I dont think I can tell you what make mind you ! __________________ "Beware of the Man with one gun...he probably isnt into guns enough to be safe with it".

September 6, 2005, 12:33 PM	#3
zzirg Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2005 Location: minnesota Posts: 184	I have seen a study where these guys took a rifle and fired it underwater to see what it would do and it fired with no problems , they did not however use a chronograph to test the velocity i would suspectd a dramatic loss of velocity under water. I would by no means try this experiment my self.

September 6, 2005, 12:41 PM	#4
LoadIt Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 269	Maybe under water the shrapnel would slow when the weapon blows up too?

September 6, 2005, 05:18 PM	#6
TPAW Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2005 Posts: 2,860	During my training, and if water was to be encountered, the first round would be a "blank", no projectile. It was sufficient enough to blow the water out of the barrell for the following "live" rounds.

September 6, 2005, 05:24 PM	#7
QuickTrig Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2005 Location: Iowa Posts: 157	Good question Loadit, I to have always wondered this and Im glad you brought it up. I always thought that having water in the barrel would be a surefire way to blow the gun sky high. I was always taught never to let ANYTHING get in the barrel of your gun, especially while hunting (better chance of this happening) Very interesting either way.

September 6, 2005, 10:04 PM	#12
jtv3062 Member Join Date: June 17, 2005 Posts: 22	i read somwhere that the m 14 is safe to fire right out of the water and thats one of the reasons the seals still use that rifle

September 7, 2005, 04:23 PM	#14
Dre_sa Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2005 Location: Left coast Posts: 610	dont they use condoms over the muzzle held tight with elastic bands? and a round chambered to block the other end?

September 7, 2005, 04:52 PM	#15
281 Quad Cam Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 937	When condoms are available, that is the best idea. However like I said, I dont know what it is that causes the AR-15 in particular to have so many rumors about blowing up if fired wet. If it is water in the reciever that is the issue, a condom wouldn't help. Does anyone here actually know if its true, or how this rumor got started? Gunsmoke enterprises had hosted a torture test video where the firer dunked the AR in water and procedes to say that if you fire an AR-15 wet it will explode in your hands. Now i dont think that this guy is the greatest AR-15 expert by any means... But the myth/rumor goes beyond one or two people. Right around 4 minutes, 15 seconds. http://www.gunsmokeenterprises.net/v...nd%20Video.wmv __________________ "Whats the first aid procedure for consumption of coolant?"

September 8, 2005, 12:24 PM	#16
LoadIt Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 269	Just watched the video. Nice ponytail. Anyway, towards the end of the video, the guy said that the rate of fire slowed down because the multiple dunkings got water and sand in the buffer tube. No blown weapon though. He seemed to just let the water drain out of the barrel, work the action, load another mag and keep going. I definately would not want to fire one under water though.

September 8, 2005, 05:12 PM	#18
shaggy Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Posts: 1,519	I think it was last year, but someone on AR15.com tried firing their Bushmaster underwater. The gun did blow-up. As I recall, it was almost completely FUBAR - the upper was destroyed as well as the lower. Simply getting the weapon wet or even well-soaked won't do it, but trying to fire one underwater is begging for trouble. That said, a quick tip of the barrel should empty things out enough to safely fire, but pull the charging handle back and let some air in to be 100% sure.

September 11, 2005, 03:30 PM	#19
Death from Afar Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2004 Location: Living the dream in Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND Posts: 1,635	Zak, the rifle had water sprinkled on it from a watering can to replicate heavy rain. AMAZING difference. It wont affect your AW i can tell you. __________________ "Beware of the Man with one gun...he probably isnt into guns enough to be safe with it".