A shotgun for my wife!

[oneounceload]

Seems funny to me Roy, that the 3-4 women I shoot with, are in their 60-70's, and they all shoot 12 gauges weighing between 8.25 and 9.25 pounds with no issues. These women range from 4'10" to 5' 4" and weight is commensurate.....yet these social-security collecting senior citizens have no issues handling them big bad 12 gauge guns.......sounds like your cousin's daughter needs to hit the gym, because if a 70 year old tiny woman can handle a 12, than anyone can.....even young kids.....with the proper loads and a gun that fits

[lizziedog1]

I too have killed many geese with a 20 gauge. Last time I went goose hunting I was with a party of five hunters. I never missed one, three shots, three birds. The 12 users missed more often then I hit. Their geese flew away very alive. My geese, shot with a 20 gauge, ended up very dead.

[roy reali]

sounds like your cousin's daughter needs to hit the gym,

When she was eleven, she was in serious automoblie accident. Her back had to be fused as it was broken in several places. She is lucky to walk. She can't handle a 12 because of recoil issues. The accident also affected her growth.

You are bright, aren't you?

[zippy13]

Originally Posted by lizziedog1

My geese, shot with a 20 gauge, ended up very dead.

"Very dead" as opposed to what... "just barely dead"?

Are you saying your performance was better because you were using a 20-ga, or because you're a better shot, or just taking an opportunity to brag-up your goose getting prowess? I'm sure we can find someone, somewhere, who got a 12-foot alligator with a .22LR while others with high-power rifles failed; but, what would it prove?

Just out of curiosity, I checked Federal's shotshell site, and selected "medium and large geese" from their bot's menu. Federal lists three 10-ga loads, fifteen 12-ga loads, and one 20-ga load. Winchester's site recommended goose loads: four in 10-ga, fourteen in 12-ga and one in 20-ga. Anyone really surprised that I'll continue to recommend the versatile 12-ga as a first gun? Of course, there are always special cases like Roy's cousin's daughter's tragic experience -- our hopes and prayers go out to her.

[the blur]

I have a bad neck and bad back, and got tired of the people responding to my request for light recoil hunting ammo; with totally ridiculous comments.

Let us know what you find out.
I too am looking for a low recoiling auto loader.
and every manufacturer claims to be the lowest.

[zippy13]

the blur,
You can only do so much with light loads and low recoiling auto loaders -- the laws of physics can only be pushed so far. Some years ago I went through the recoil reduction methods available: slower burning powders, premium recoil pads, added gun weight, mercury canisters, ported barrels, custom fitted stocks, shirts with sewn in pads, over-bored barrels, and longer forcing cones. They all helped a little; but, if you want a quantum reduction in kick, consider an air unit. It buffers the recoil like no other device I've tried. In my Skeet gun, I have a telescoping JS Air Cushion conversion, and in my Trap gun the less expensive sliding ShockMaster. Both units use a G-squared air unit.

There's an air port in the butt pad -- you add/remove pressure as you wish. The lower the pressure, the less kick you feel. Shooting 4-gauge Skeet, I can change pressure so the recoil from each gauge is about the same. I've never known anyone with either of the systems who wasn't satisfied. There are other similar ones available, but I selected those that are done in my area.

[.300 Weatherby Mag]

20 gauge..

It's important to find a gun that she's comfortable with.. The 12 gauge recommendation is stupid in most causes, unless your shooting waterfowl a 12 is not needed.. I really don't care about the arguement about the lack of versatility of a 20.. My goal is to make women want to come back rather than to take a beating from a 12 gauge the first time out never to return to the shooting sports again..

[lefteyedom]

Tis a rare woman that sticks with shotguns very long, seriously.

This mind set is the very reason there are not more females in the shooting sports.

How many women have had their first shotgun experience with a single shot 12 gauge? Or worse yet a double barrel 12 gauge (go on honey pull both triggers!)

I am all for pink rifles or hell even Hello Kitty stickers, if it make a girl proud to have her OWN gun. Nothing is better than a kid learning that they are wanted and welcome in their parents sport. Who is not proud when a kid gets a big shot of self confidence because they hit a target with their gun.

[Snakedriver]

My wife is a dead shot with her 20 ga. Mossberg 500 with 28" barrel using a imp. mod. choke. That thing seems to reach out and get the quail and doves when the 12's can't seem to get there.

[oneounceload]

You are bright, aren't you?

Yes, I am Roy - perhaps you should re-read my entire post. My first wife was worse off than yours and she had to work out to be able to lift herself from her wheelchair.

HEAVY gun plus LIGHT load equal LOW recoil; (since you said she couldn't handle recoil)

[Jim Watson]

A lady here went the full route, shooting everything available, handling everything in the stores. She made her own choice and paid her own money, ending up with a Benelli Ultra Light 6 lb 12 gauge. Everybody said its light weight and inertia action would kick her silly. All I saw was a big pleased grin when I took her to the trap and skeet club to practice, and a phone picture of her with her pheasants when she went hunting with it.

[oneounceload]

A lady here went the full route, shooting everything available, handling everything in the stores. She made her own choice and paid her own money, ending up with a Benelli Ultra Light 6 lb 12 gauge. Everybody said its light weight and inertia action would kick her silly. All I saw was a big pleased grin when I took her to the trap and skeet club to practice, and a phone picture of her with her pheasants when she went hunting with it.

AWESOME............must fit her very well.glad she is enjoying it

[zippy13]

Originally Posted by .300 Weatherby Mag

The 12 gauge recommendation is stupid in most causes, unless your shooting waterfowl a 12 is not needed.. I really don't care about the arguement about the lack of versatility of a 20.. My goal is to make women want to come back rather than to take a beating from a 12 gauge the first time out never to return to the shooting sports again.

None of us wants to duplicate the idiots we see all too frequently on youtube. You know the type, they give some young woman a light 12-ga pump that doesn't fit her, don't instruct her how to mount the gun, drop a boomer in the chamber and roll camera. The poor girl shoots one round and is beat by the gun, and a bloody facial injury isn't uncommon. Needless to say, she isn't anxious to fire another round and is probably wondering why she's hanging around with a bunch of losers in the first place.

It seems .300 W.M. would paint all ladies' introduction to shooting with a 12-ga with the same broad brush. If you're really concerned that a 12-ga will scare her off, then why suggest a 20-ga? As I pointed out earlier, a 12-ga can be loaded to kick less than a 20-ga. Why not start he off with a .410-bore? Because, with a .410 she probably won't hit many targets, and may not return because of frustration.

Let's assume you introduce a lady to the shooting sports with a 20-ga and she really enjoys the experience. And, following your advice, she purchases a 20-ga sporting gun. She enjoys shooting so much that she starts entering club shoots. She soon notices the other ladies, shooting 12-ga guns, are bettering her scores. The other ladies explain that, of course, their scores are higher, they are throwing more than an extra 1 1/2-lb of lead every 100-targets. What do you say when she asks you why you recommended a gun that would put her at a handicap? .300 W.M. may not agree with my argument that the versatility of the loads available for the 12-ga make it the ideal first gun, but she may.

[oneounceload]

If you're really concerned that a 12-ga will scare her off, then why suggest a 20-ga?

To add to that, then get her a nice .22 to introduce her to shooting and work up from there........a 12 is the most versatile and the easiest to get LOW-recoil ammunition for her to shoot. Even reloading, I am reloading 12 and 20 to 28 gauge levels - 3/4 oz. The 12 has less actual AND perceived recoil then the 20 because the gun is heavier, and in my wife's situation, she's shooting a semi gas gun....(here's a hint Roy - the A400 weighs what a 20 does, but shooting 3/4 oz loads, has less recoil than the 20).....

[.300 Weatherby Mag]

Zippy,

If she's shooting that much and comes to enjoy it, she can buy a 12 gauge after she gets to the point that the 20 becomes a handicap.. Another issue, that seems to be neglected... Women that I've taught even when given the option don't want to mess with the heft of something like an 1100.. Yes you can handload a 12 down, but most people just getting into the sport don't have that option availaible to them...

To Zippy and OneOunce,

I believe the tone of my first post came off as painting a broad stroke with 12gauges.. Probably shouldn't comment on this stuff after a bad day... I guess my problem is that I see far more stupid people trying to introduce women to the sport than the other way around..

[zippy13]

.300 W.M.
Most of your larger pro shots will have light loads for exactly the reasons we've been talking about. These 28-ga equivalent 12-ga loads are hardly home made (like 1-oz's):

Originally Posted by .300 Weatherby Mag

I guess my problem is that I see far more stupid people trying to introduce women to the sport than the other way around..

Ah… Finally, something we can completely, and unconditionally agree upon. Sorry to hear you had a bad day.

[.300 Weatherby Mag]

Zippy,

I am in socal too.. Where are you finding the low recoil stuff?? I have a few boxes of it lying around I found a while back.. Only drawback is that it won't cycle an auto..

[idek]

There is sort of a three way balancing act when selecting guns/ammo for smaller, recoil-sensitive shooters. You have...

1) gun weight -- I know that, to many of us, a heavy gun isn't necessarily bad, but for smaller, less-strong shooters, a gun could easily be too heavy. I will use the terms "light" gun to really mean a gun of comfortable, manageable weight and "heavy" gun to mean one that is somewhat difficult to handle well. If a shooter has to lean back to keep from tipping over, that's probably too heavy. If a gun feels like a lead pipe while pheasant hunting, that's probably too heavy.

2) recoil -- No explanation needed. No matter how you twist it, more recoil is bad. Less recoil is good.

3) shot potency -- Light loads are fine for many purposes, but heavier loads certainly have some advantages. Champion trap shooter aren't using 3/4 oz. loads, and it's a rare person who kills geese with a 28 gauge. So for the sake of general shooting needs, I'm considering a gun/ammo combination with a heavy loads to be a good thing while light loads can, in many cases, be unsuitable for a task.

It's not hard to to find a gun/ammo combination that will be great in two of the above categories, but a combination that's great in all three is unlikely.

Possible 2 plus, 1 negative combinations are:

+ light gun
+ light recoil
- weak loads.

- heavy gun
+ light recoil
+ heavy loads

+ light gun
- heavy recoil
+ heavy loads

Which aspect one is most willing to compromise on should depend on purpose of the gun.

Shooting clays generally means a lot of shooting, so a smaller shooter would likely want low recoil as one of the pluses. What this means then is that the gun will have to be heavy, the loads have to be light, or some compromise between the two.

For an upland gun, I personally would not be willing to compromise on weight. If it's too heavy to carry comfortably, it takes the fun out of hunting. So that means one either has to endure harder recoil while shooting standard loads, shoot light loads to minimize recoil, or find a balance of moderate loads and moderate recoil.

For something like goose hunting, people may be reluctant to give up shot potency. So that means either a heavy gun to reduce recoil, accepting some bruises with a light gun, or finding some compromise of a mid-weight gun and tolerable recoil.


I suppose one could try to find an equal balance gun weight, recoil, and shot potency, but things intended to be adequate for many purposes are rarely great for any purpose. That said, some guns could serve two purposes well.

For a waterfowl/upland gun, a light gun with heavy shot capacity could be used. Recoil would be the drawback, but if only a handful of shots are taken per outing, that may be worth it. It certainly wouldn't be good for the hundreds of rounds shot in shooting sports.

For a sporting/waterfowl gun, a heavy gun with heavy shot capacity could be used. It would just be a matter of whether it's too heavy to handle well, and it would be an unpleasant upland gun.

I don't believe sporting and upland guns can pull double duty well, unless you're maybe talking about a sub-gauge used for skeet. Otherwise, the two activities and suitable gun just seem to be at opposite end of the spectrum.
...Keep in mind this is still based on smaller shooters. A stronger person might not perceive a heavy gun as a negative, even while upland hunting.

Finally, I'm not overlooking gun fit. I just didn't mention it because it's ALWAYS important regardless of what your gun weighs, what shells you're shooting, or how much free recoil you're dealing with.

[abelacres]

to the OP-

If you have 12s, let your wife try them. Show her how to properly handle them. You don't have 20s- do any of your friends? Surely someone you know has a 20ga you could borrow for your wife to try. Let HER decide what SHE wants to shoot. Others have mentioned LOP and recoil pads, changing stocks isn't hard and wally world sells slip on pads. You may have to do a little work to find or modify a shotgun to 'fit' her, but I can assure you she will be much happier with what she wants over what you think she will want.

[zippy13]

.300 W.M.
I haven't looked locally, but Cabelas has them on sale now. Of course, like most ammo prices these days, even on sale they are a rip off. I got the pic from midwayusa.com. (more expensive that Cabelas)

[ArizonaRick]

I purchased a Mossberg 500 youth model (20 gauge 21" bbl - vented rib, 3 chokes, 1" shorter length of pull) for my 9 year old son - and after several years of significant use (trap, sporting clays, skeet, bird hunting) my wife has taken it and it is her main " go to gun" for everything. We live on a large parcel in the rural Ozarks and she defends the chickens on a nightly basis - mostly coons and posiums. The gun is light, handy and has thousands of rounds through it without a hitch. I paid $149 at wallyworld six years ago, now they are $225ish and you just can't beat the value.

[roy reali]

The best wingshooter I know uses a 28 gauge for most of his hunting. This guy rarely misses. Last year on a planted pheasant hunt I had a 28. The others had 12's or 20's. I had the fewest misses and every bird I hit hit the ground unable to run. The 12 and 20 guys missed often and also winged birds that dogs had to run down.

I am not a great wing shooter by any means. But, I am fully capable of missing with any gauge.

[ammo.crafter]

Look at the youth models. Made for kids but fits women very well.
Charles Daly semi-auto 20 fits my wife perfectly.

[Fargazer]

I am in a similar situation; we are getting a home defense pump shotgun, and I want to get my wife familiar with shotguns. She's also expressed interest in learning more, so this isn't a case of "husband imposes on wife". She thinks trap and skeet shooting would be cool.

My approach is to pay for a couple lessons at Montlake Clays (run by Dawn and Craig Sheaffer - so there's a woman shooter for my wife to talk to). We are going to take the 20ga Wingmaster we own, and rent a shotgun or two at the range (they have Beretta 390s, amongst others). Once she tries it out, and the instructor makes some recommendations, we'll decide further if she wants to pursue it and what gun would fit her needs most.

I'm rather frugal; I'm willing to spend good bucks on a firearm, but I think it's ultimately cheaper to let her rent a couple and consult a pro before springing out the pocketbook.

[zippy13]

Fargazer,
Teaming your wife with a female instructor is a great idea.