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September 13, 2012, 11:56 AM | #1 |
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Is it a straw purchase?
I was going to make an account on Centerfiresystems to buy an AMD-65 but realized my mother already had one. Not having my own bank account I simply put the money in her account, so I don't have to change any info and purchased the gun. It got to the FFL, who I had discussed this with late last week. There was never a misunderstanding as to who was going to buy the firearm and I was told that it would be fine to transfer it in my name. When I went to get the gun today I was told, that because It shipped in her name, but I was attempting to do the transfer, a straw purchase would occur if I did the 4473. I don't see the problem? It was my money, and It was my intent to buy the gun FOR ME. Nobody is acting as a proxy in my opinion because at the most, her name is only listed as the shipping info. But here I am sick to my stomach because I dread the idea that I may have almost broke the law there.
Any explanations? Cleared it up with everyone and I have been told that I am not guilty of any crime. Everything was only precautionary. Remove this post if you would like. Last edited by Peptobismol9; September 13, 2012 at 12:09 PM. |
September 13, 2012, 12:11 PM | #2 |
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I don't see how that would be a straw purchase. In fact I have done something very similar before. A friend of mine used his account to buy a gun on gunbroker for me and it was shipped in his name but the FFL we used had no problem selling it to me instead of him since he was there to verify it was actually my purchase.
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September 13, 2012, 12:14 PM | #3 |
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That is what I was thinking. The guy actually went to the back and called the ATF. They gave the all clear. I have got to admit, I was shaking in the knees a bit. I could feel myself go pale when he said "straw purchase".
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September 13, 2012, 12:28 PM | #4 |
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No way it's a straw purchase.
Your money, your gun. The 4473 doesn't ask for the name on the bank account or the name on the shipping label. It asks if you are the actual purchaser. The answer is yes.
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September 13, 2012, 01:29 PM | #5 |
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Thanks for the replies. I feel much better not expecting to join the orange jumpsuit gang. I do my very best to abide by the law and do not play with fire when it comes to things like this, so "disturbed" doesn't even begin to describe how I felt when the idea that I may have committed a crime arose. Especially one where the accuser has my name and location written down in a notepad.
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September 15, 2012, 01:45 PM | #6 |
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It's not a straw purchase. As long as the name on the 4473 is the actual buyer of the gun, it doesn't matter how the gun was paid for.
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September 15, 2012, 05:06 PM | #7 |
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Suppose I was going to buy you a Birthday gun. I take you to the store and hand the clerk my credit card and you fill out the 4477. This sounds like the same type deal and is entirely legal. Actually if you buy someone a Birthday gun and you fill out the 4477 it is a violation. No Birthday gun surprise allowed.
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September 15, 2012, 05:28 PM | #8 | ||
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September 15, 2012, 05:32 PM | #9 |
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Don H, did you read the post where the OP and FFL contacted the ATF, and the ATF gave them the all clear?
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September 15, 2012, 07:27 PM | #10 |
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MLeake, sure did. I was responding to another poster.
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September 15, 2012, 08:22 PM | #11 |
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Oops, sorry. You are correct about bona fide gifts being legal, too.
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September 15, 2012, 10:48 PM | #12 |
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Shows you how often I buy guns. Used to be illegal.
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September 16, 2012, 06:34 AM | #13 |
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Straw purchase or not, the FFL probably wanted to make sure he was transferring the gun to the right person. He'd be in a real pickle if mom comes in later and asks to pick up her gun...
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September 16, 2012, 08:47 AM | #14 |
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I love these posts with all the amatuer legal experts.
I've fallen into the trap myself. Not poining finger, just sayin' .... BTW, I also love the term "my money". It didn't have yer name on it. The money was from someone else's account. Whose money? If the deal had gone sour, how do you think that bit of information would have been used as evidence? |
September 16, 2012, 10:52 AM | #15 |
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The money paid and the name on the shipping label do not constitute purchasing a firearm. That is done when you complete and sign the 4473 and it is approved. If you are the actual purchaser of the firearm then it is a legal purchase. Lets say Bob was approached by Jim who offered him a couple of hundred dollars over the purchase price to buy him a firearm. Bob goes and makes the purchase and gives the firearm to Jim. He has committed a crime because he answered and signed the 4473 that he was the purchaser of the firearm.
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September 16, 2012, 03:21 PM | #16 |
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One of several problems with guns laws is that they constantly change. I gave an answer based on the law when I ran a little gun business. Now it's changed. If you're not currently 'in the business' how would you know? Of course IMO, we could throw out about 75% of gun laws and be better off.
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September 16, 2012, 03:29 PM | #17 |
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You can know by going to the ATF website which is pretty explicit about what a straw purchase is.
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September 16, 2012, 04:22 PM | #18 | ||
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September 16, 2012, 06:36 PM | #19 |
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This thread is apropos to a debate I'm having with a friend regarding the legality (or lack of) concerning the purchase of a firearm for a "family member". Specifically, is it "legal" to use, say a son's, money to purchase a firearm for him in the guise that it is a "gift"? I don't think so (wish I am wrong).
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September 16, 2012, 06:56 PM | #20 | |
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September 17, 2012, 07:17 PM | #21 |
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I do not blame the FFL for checkign with the ATF. He was just keeping his rear covered.
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September 18, 2012, 11:55 AM | #22 | |
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September 21, 2012, 10:57 AM | #23 | |
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Thanks for any opinion as to this question.
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September 21, 2012, 11:12 AM | #24 | |
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We've basically outlined federal law on the question, at some point, a person will need to decide for himself or consult a lawyer for actual legal advice. I think we're done here.
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