Another dumb optic selection question? - Page 2

hal9000 · February 2, 2019, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Bought some low-medium end binos for truck use. He broke the strap holder off. They sent him new Vipers

Sounds like you got the other side of the "not so organized" coin. I wish I had your dads warranty agent!

I'm not totally against Vortex, but I'd only buy viper or higher at this point, and still with some concern about warranty service. But I do like their mid and high end optics.

Colorado Redneck · February 2, 2019, 10:11 PM

7mm-08 will work for deer at 500. Given the right projectile, loaded to max it should be fine. As always, the person doing the shooting is the biggest variable.

hal9000 · February 2, 2019, 11:13 PM

I've yet to have to take a 500 yd shot, but where I hunt it could be a necessity if I'm shooting across a draw in rugged territory. Not somethimg If do on a whim though. I used to be a youth shooting instructor and competed in small bore comps as a teenager, but I'm hesitant to do anything that might result in a non lethal shot. To date Ive always been able to get to 300 yd or less, but that's never a guarantee.

hal9000 · February 2, 2019, 11:28 PM

I've yet to have to take a 500 yd shot, but where I hunt it could be a necessity if I'm shooting across a draw in rugged territory. Not somethimg If do on a whim though. I used to be a youth shooting instructor and competed in small bore comps as a teenager, but I'm hesitant to do anything that might result in a non lethal shot. To date Ive always been able to get to 300 yd or less, but that's never a guarantee.

eastbank · February 3, 2019, 04:11 AM

I ring a 8" gong at 500 yards with my rem 7mm08 from a rest with a nosler 140 gr BT bullet going close 2900 fps and it has over 1000 fpe and with a 200 yard zero its down about 50" at 500 yards. thats 40 clicks with a scope that has 1/4" adjustments.

Bozz10mm · February 3, 2019, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Does anyone have any recommendations on what brands or models to look at for reasonable quality scopes that aren't budget buster's

Primary Arms has some excellent scopes with a variety of magnification and reticle styles in FFP and SFP. The FFP (First Focal Plane) scopes are generally more expensive than the SFP (Second Focal Plane) scopes. I'm sure you could find something to your liking and price range there.

Also, look at what Nikon has to offer. Their scopes are very good quality and reasonably priced.

bamaranger · February 4, 2019, 10:38 PM

The trend these days seems to be shooting at big game at longer and longer distances, and casually mentioning 500 yd shots in this post is just another example of same. Five hundred is a heck of a long way in my book, especially to shoot at an animal as regal and resilient as a deer. Gut shoot a groundhog, he's dead, not so with a deer.

From a field position, dealing with wind ( and getting it right so as not to wound) and actually getting the range right ( is it really 450, or 525, etc). I'm still of the opinion, very old school I know, that most of us reach our effective limit under 400 yds, and 300 could be better for shots at medium and big game. I very willingly put myself in that group.

I realize that different terrain in different parts of the country have a bearing on this matter.....there's very little cross canyon shooting in AL, but we do have ROW's and large cutover area's. I've shot at enough gongs at known distances of 500-600 yds, from a bench, with a spotter, to realize I've got no business shooting at game at that distance.

Rant over,......now about scopes.....I'm a Leupold guy first, and I like Burris next. No experience with Vortex. I have a newer Bushnell Elite 10x with kn obs that is holding up good, and an affordable Nikon 3-9x , maybe an earlier Prostaff, that has done well on several rifles to date. Buy a lot of my Leupolds from ebay, used, at some savings, but I pick and choose my buys carefully. My deer scopes are all set and forget knobs, no twirling for me, easily done as I don't shoot that far at deer and simply get a usable zero and go hunting.

hal9000 · February 5, 2019, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Five hundred is a heck of a long way in my book, especially to shoot at an animal as regal and resilient as a deer.

No argument from me there. I'd just like to say I'm not casually throwing the range out there. I'm setting an absolute max that I'd never exceed, and only shoot up to if I felt it was doable and there was no alternative.

hal9000 · February 5, 2019, 09:23 PM

I'm gonna take things a slightly different direction for a moment and just ask anyone that's owned both vortex and Leupold Scopes, which of the two do you like the turrets on the most? I mean which has the most positive and consistent adjustments on a price for price basis?

bamaranger · February 5, 2019, 10:12 PM

One more comment,and I'll hush......there's always an "alternative". You pass the overly long shot shot..... simply don't shoot.

Can't help you with knobs.

hal9000 · February 5, 2019, 11:38 PM

Yeppers, I pass on shots that aren't "right" all the time. And I've gone home with unfilled tags and no complaints because of it ( of courseI have no proof of that

). That being said as a former instructor and former light rifle competitor I have a very good grasp on my abilities and limitations (the latter being the more important), I use a rangefinder, a rest, and as much time as I need (that's the target shooter in me) for any shot over 100 yards.

None of that means I don't want equipment that doesn't reach out at least as far as my confidence level, or a bit farther.

std7mag · February 6, 2019, 08:22 AM

Hal,
I had this setup on my Stevens 200 in 7mm-08AI shooting 140gr bullet at 2,836 fps.
EGW one piece base, 20 MOA.
Vortex Viper low rings.
Vortex Crossfire II 4-12X42 with BDC reticle.
Sighted for 200 yard zero was 1.5" high at 100 yards, but BDC lined up at further ranges.

I mostly hunt on a gas line. 40 yards wide, miles long. Oportunity ranges from 20ft to 1,200 yards. No i'm not saying i'd attempt a shot that far.

Shot large doe last yearat 413 yards using an improvised bench rest.
Shot my first F Class Open with that setup last year also.

The 7mm-08, and the Crossfire II will get things done for you.

Art Eatman · February 6, 2019, 11:19 AM

As a hunter, I'm a "set it and forget it" type. I zero for 200 yards. So far, my guesstimation for holdover has worked for one-shot kills at 350 and 450 yards--but, otherwise, I'd say that all the rest were inside of 200.

I'm still using a Leupold Vari-X II 3-9x40 that was new in 1973. Works just fine.

I found that a 1997-vintage Simmons 44 Mag did just fine with .30-'06 recoil. And it's not all that difficult to get one-MOA groups with a Weaver K-4.

hal9000 · February 7, 2019, 01:40 PM

Thought I posted this last night. Must've forgot to hit submit.....

So I'd like to take my original question a slightly different direction for a moment. For those of you that have owned both vortex and ask which of the two you felt most confident with the positivity and repeatability of the adjustments?

Thanks

EDIT: Of course I just saw that I did post the question.... (Need more coffee!)

Pathfinder45 · February 7, 2019, 06:24 PM

For my 270 bolt gun I use a Leupold 3-9x40, which is a fairly trim package. With rather compact adjustment controls, it stands in stark contrast to the current trend of scopes that have great-big-ol' turrets that it looks to me like you could trip over or at least accidentally bang into something. I'm also with the set-it-and-forget-it crew. With something that shoots as flat as a 270, I like the J. O'Connor method with a 25 yard zero that is back on zero at about 275 yards, making shots a 400 yards without great difficulty. While the 7mm08 is not quite a 270, it comes pretty close.
While I occasionally use a bench-rest for load development, I actually despise the thing! I feel that if I can't make the shot from improvised field positions, then I have no business taking that shot on game animals. I've done real well on water-filled milk jugs at 450 yards from the sitting-on-the-ground position in the past, but I'd have to do a lot more of that before I would even consider a shot like that on game.
Don't neglect shooting a lot from the standing-off-hand position; get good at it and it will make every other position seem like child's play. Quickly dropping from there to a kneeling position adds a lot of stability for a shot at quartering-away deer to a further distance than a standing position can accommodate.
But back to scopes: Don't over-spend on bells-and-whistles. Just get a 2-7 or 3-9x40 Leupold and spend more on actually shooting it.... a lot. The best, most expensive equipment will not improve in-the-field performance; only practice can do that.

reynolds357 · February 8, 2019, 06:03 PM

I like Leupold for ruggedness. All their scopes are tough, as you move up their line, you are paying for glass quality, not extra reliability.
At the moment, my hands down favorite for the money is Meopta Meopro. The glass is clear and ridiculously bright. I can't tell you about their customer service because I have never had an issue that needed them.

Nathan · February 10, 2019, 12:59 PM

Quote:

I like Leupold for ruggedness. All their scopes are tough, as you move up their line, you are paying for glass quality, not extra reliability.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you as that is your experience. IME, Leupold has started making low end scopes that are unreliable. They sell these based on their name and that turret reliability is often judged as minute of deer at 100yds.

If your scope needs adjustment season to season with the same load, you need a new scope. If your rifle takes more than a group or 3 to sight in, you need a new scope.(could be shooter issue too) If your turrets need adjusted after a flight, you need a new scope.

My Vortex scopes never need any of this...

hunter john · February 12, 2019, 07:03 PM

This is not a scope recommendation but maybe the scope doesn't make as much difference as it might seem. My first gun was a 250/3000 savage m99 equipped with a 2.5 power lyman Alaskan.Growing up with that little gun i took more game than I can count( derr hogs and an elk).I now shoot a high powered scope but that little rig made me a better shot.KNOW YOUR GUN

reynolds357 · February 14, 2019, 01:02 AM

Quote:

My Vortex scopes never need any of this...

The only Vortex I like are the higher end ones.the The mid range and down have terrible edge distortion.

Saltydog235 · February 14, 2019, 07:26 PM

The only Vortex line worth throwing money at is the Razor, rest of them a junk prone to breakage. Right on par with the Nikon brand. Good glass is an investment, buy once, cry once. Or if you’re like me buy a lot and keep it from the wife, cry when she catches you.

Stubert · February 14, 2019, 08:31 PM

I just bought in November, a VX3 2.5-8x36 for $245.00 new in box. They are discontinued. They have been replaced by the VX3i. the deals are out there, you just gotta keep looking.

hal9000 · February 16, 2019, 09:28 PM

Hey guys. Thanks for all the input. Sorry for the slow response... Life got in the way for a while there. Just wanted to express a little appreciation. Everything I've found seems to put vortex and Leupold on par price for price. I'll probs go with Leupold just based on my personal experiences with vortex.

February 4, 2019, 10:38 PM	#32
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,308	300 yds......500 yds The trend these days seems to be shooting at big game at longer and longer distances, and casually mentioning 500 yd shots in this post is just another example of same. Five hundred is a heck of a long way in my book, especially to shoot at an animal as regal and resilient as a deer. Gut shoot a groundhog, he's dead, not so with a deer. From a field position, dealing with wind ( and getting it right so as not to wound) and actually getting the range right ( is it really 450, or 525, etc). I'm still of the opinion, very old school I know, that most of us reach our effective limit under 400 yds, and 300 could be better for shots at medium and big game. I very willingly put myself in that group. I realize that different terrain in different parts of the country have a bearing on this matter.....there's very little cross canyon shooting in AL, but we do have ROW's and large cutover area's. I've shot at enough gongs at known distances of 500-600 yds, from a bench, with a spotter, to realize I've got no business shooting at game at that distance. Rant over,......now about scopes.....I'm a Leupold guy first, and I like Burris next. No experience with Vortex. I have a newer Bushnell Elite 10x with kn obs that is holding up good, and an affordable Nikon 3-9x , maybe an earlier Prostaff, that has done well on several rifles to date. Buy a lot of my Leupolds from ebay, used, at some savings, but I pick and choose my buys carefully. My deer scopes are all set and forget knobs, no twirling for me, easily done as I don't shoot that far at deer and simply get a usable zero and go hunting.

February 5, 2019, 10:12 PM	#35
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,308	alternative One more comment,and I'll hush......there's always an "alternative". You pass the overly long shot shot..... simply don't shoot. Can't help you with knobs.

February 6, 2019, 08:22 AM	#37
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Hal, I had this setup on my Stevens 200 in 7mm-08AI shooting 140gr bullet at 2,836 fps. EGW one piece base, 20 MOA. Vortex Viper low rings. Vortex Crossfire II 4-12X42 with BDC reticle. Sighted for 200 yard zero was 1.5" high at 100 yards, but BDC lined up at further ranges. I mostly hunt on a gas line. 40 yards wide, miles long. Oportunity ranges from 20ft to 1,200 yards. No i'm not saying i'd attempt a shot that far. Shot large doe last yearat 413 yards using an improvised bench rest. Shot my first F Class Open with that setup last year also. The 7mm-08, and the Crossfire II will get things done for you. __________________ When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope...

February 7, 2019, 06:24 PM	#40
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	I like a trim package. For my 270 bolt gun I use a Leupold 3-9x40, which is a fairly trim package. With rather compact adjustment controls, it stands in stark contrast to the current trend of scopes that have great-big-ol' turrets that it looks to me like you could trip over or at least accidentally bang into something. I'm also with the set-it-and-forget-it crew. With something that shoots as flat as a 270, I like the J. O'Connor method with a 25 yard zero that is back on zero at about 275 yards, making shots a 400 yards without great difficulty. While the 7mm08 is not quite a 270, it comes pretty close. While I occasionally use a bench-rest for load development, I actually despise the thing! I feel that if I can't make the shot from improvised field positions, then I have no business taking that shot on game animals. I've done real well on water-filled milk jugs at 450 yards from the sitting-on-the-ground position in the past, but I'd have to do a lot more of that before I would even consider a shot like that on game. Don't neglect shooting a lot from the standing-off-hand position; get good at it and it will make every other position seem like child's play. Quickly dropping from there to a kneeling position adds a lot of stability for a shot at quartering-away deer to a further distance than a standing position can accommodate. But back to scopes: Don't over-spend on bells-and-whistles. Just get a 2-7 or 3-9x40 Leupold and spend more on actually shooting it.... a lot. The best, most expensive equipment will not improve in-the-field performance; only practice can do that.

February 2, 2019, 10:11 PM	#27
Colorado Redneck Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2008 Location: Northeast Colorado Posts: 1,993	7mm-08 will work for deer at 500. Given the right projectile, loaded to max it should be fine. As always, the person doing the shooting is the biggest variable.

February 2, 2019, 11:13 PM	#28
hal9000 Member Join Date: October 15, 2010 Location: AZ Posts: 82	I've yet to have to take a 500 yd shot, but where I hunt it could be a necessity if I'm shooting across a draw in rugged territory. Not somethimg If do on a whim though. I used to be a youth shooting instructor and competed in small bore comps as a teenager, but I'm hesitant to do anything that might result in a non lethal shot. To date Ive always been able to get to 300 yd or less, but that's never a guarantee.

February 2, 2019, 11:28 PM	#29
hal9000 Member Join Date: October 15, 2010 Location: AZ Posts: 82	I've yet to have to take a 500 yd shot, but where I hunt it could be a necessity if I'm shooting across a draw in rugged territory. Not somethimg If do on a whim though. I used to be a youth shooting instructor and competed in small bore comps as a teenager, but I'm hesitant to do anything that might result in a non lethal shot. To date Ive always been able to get to 300 yd or less, but that's never a guarantee.

February 3, 2019, 04:11 AM	#30
eastbank Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Location: pa. Posts: 2,450	I ring a 8" gong at 500 yards with my rem 7mm08 from a rest with a nosler 140 gr BT bullet going close 2900 fps and it has over 1000 fpe and with a 200 yard zero its down about 50" at 500 yards. thats 40 clicks with a scope that has 1/4" adjustments.

February 5, 2019, 09:23 PM	#34
hal9000 Member Join Date: October 15, 2010 Location: AZ Posts: 82	I'm gonna take things a slightly different direction for a moment and just ask anyone that's owned both vortex and Leupold Scopes, which of the two do you like the turrets on the most? I mean which has the most positive and consistent adjustments on a price for price basis?

February 5, 2019, 11:38 PM	#36
hal9000 Member Join Date: October 15, 2010 Location: AZ Posts: 82	Yeppers, I pass on shots that aren't "right" all the time. And I've gone home with unfilled tags and no complaints because of it ( of courseI have no proof of that ). That being said as a former instructor and former light rifle competitor I have a very good grasp on my abilities and limitations (the latter being the more important), I use a rangefinder, a rest, and as much time as I need (that's the target shooter in me) for any shot over 100 yards. None of that means I don't want equipment that doesn't reach out at least as far as my confidence level, or a bit farther.

February 6, 2019, 11:19 AM	#38
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	As a hunter, I'm a "set it and forget it" type. I zero for 200 yards. So far, my guesstimation for holdover has worked for one-shot kills at 350 and 450 yards--but, otherwise, I'd say that all the rest were inside of 200. I'm still using a Leupold Vari-X II 3-9x40 that was new in 1973. Works just fine. I found that a 1997-vintage Simmons 44 Mag did just fine with .30-'06 recoil. And it's not all that difficult to get one-MOA groups with a Weaver K-4.

February 7, 2019, 01:40 PM	#39
hal9000 Member Join Date: October 15, 2010 Location: AZ Posts: 82	Thought I posted this last night. Must've forgot to hit submit..... So I'd like to take my original question a slightly different direction for a moment. For those of you that have owned both vortex and ask which of the two you felt most confident with the positivity and repeatability of the adjustments? Thanks EDIT: Of course I just saw that I did post the question.... (Need more coffee!)

February 8, 2019, 06:03 PM	#41
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	I like Leupold for ruggedness. All their scopes are tough, as you move up their line, you are paying for glass quality, not extra reliability. At the moment, my hands down favorite for the money is Meopta Meopro. The glass is clear and ridiculously bright. I can't tell you about their customer service because I have never had an issue that needed them.

February 12, 2019, 07:03 PM	#43
hunter john Junior Member Join Date: February 10, 2019 Location: central california Posts: 6	This is not a scope recommendation but maybe the scope doesn't make as much difference as it might seem. My first gun was a 250/3000 savage m99 equipped with a 2.5 power lyman Alaskan.Growing up with that little gun i took more game than I can count( derr hogs and an elk).I now shoot a high powered scope but that little rig made me a better shot.KNOW YOUR GUN

February 14, 2019, 07:26 PM	#45
Saltydog235 Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2010 Location: Pawleys Island Posts: 1,563	The only Vortex line worth throwing money at is the Razor, rest of them a junk prone to breakage. Right on par with the Nikon brand. Good glass is an investment, buy once, cry once. Or if you’re like me buy a lot and keep it from the wife, cry when she catches you.

February 14, 2019, 08:31 PM	#46
Stubert Member Join Date: February 6, 2018 Location: Catskill Mtns. New York Posts: 19	I just bought in November, a VX3 2.5-8x36 for $245.00 new in box. They are discontinued. They have been replaced by the VX3i. the deals are out there, you just gotta keep looking.

February 16, 2019, 09:28 PM	#47
hal9000 Member Join Date: October 15, 2010 Location: AZ Posts: 82	Hey guys. Thanks for all the input. Sorry for the slow response... Life got in the way for a while there. Just wanted to express a little appreciation. Everything I've found seems to put vortex and Leupold on par price for price. I'll probs go with Leupold just based on my personal experiences with vortex.