Help: 44 Mag or 454 Handgun and Recommended Ammo for Extended Stay in Alaska

[newfrontier45]

I'm looking to turn the great bear rather than kill it.

And then what, wishful thinking??? You'd be better off with bear spray.

Put the bullet in the right place and it will work, as well as any rifle. The question with properly loaded big bore sixguns is not whether or not they work, we know they work, the issue is whether or not the shooter can put the bullet in the right place. Spray the bear's face with birdshot and now he is injured and even angrier than before. If 400gr bullets from a .416 tear through his lungs and shatters the bear's paw and he doesn't even react, what do you think a faceful of birdshot is going to do?

[dorc-1]

Yes, I am knowingly injuring a bear. When it's my life, that's the choice I make. I would certainly do all I could to finish the bear with the 45 ammo I have left but I'm not chasing him into the bush if that's my only option. A report would be made to local officials. There are many bears injured each year by hunters or other bears.

Yes, put any bullet in the right place and it will work. And like I said, if you are confident enough in your ability to put a bullet right where you want it while being charged by an adrenal fueled monster......then have at it. As I said earlier, a bears pain is felt instantaneously in the face but it just doesn't register in the torso when they are in a full charge.

I'll stick with my governor in the woods for ease of carry while hiking or pulling when I need it in an instant. There is no fool proof protection in bear country, but I'll take the hard and heavy sting to the face over anything else available.

[AZAK]

but I'm not chasing him into the bush if that's my only option

"Remember that other hunters or outdoor enthusiasts may use your hunting area or campsite after you do. It is the ethical responsibility of any hunter who wounds a bear (e.g., in a DLP situation) to make a strong effort to find and kill the bear, and if the hunter has made a good faith effort but the wounded bear escapes, to notify other hunters in the area as well as ADF&G and Department of Public Safety/Alaska Wildlife Trooper personnel."
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm...ing.bearsafety

I'll stick with my governor in the woods for ease of carry while hiking or pulling when I need it in an instant

I have only seen "governors" under gun counter glass, not even once outdoors in Alaska; then again, it is a big state and I can't be everywhere at once.

There is no fool proof protection in bear country, but I'll take the hard and heavy sting to the face over anything else available.

How about 100% effective in Alaska? No fatalities? No serious injuries?
http://www.adn.com/2008/04/20/381252...h-in-bear.html

[wyobohunter]

We are hijacking this thread to preach to deaf ears.
My apologies to the OP, I've said all I can say as far as the original question goes so I'll step aside.

[silvermane_1]

back on topic, another vote for .480 Ruger, cuz a .44 & .454 can't toss 6 oz. of hardcast down range.

[newfrontier45]

I would love to see Ruger chamber their .480 in something longer than an Alaskan but shorter than their standard 7½" model. A 4-5" would be a wonderful thing. Something like Bowen's conversion of a Super Redhawk with a standard Redhawk barrel.

We are hijacking this thread to preach to deaf ears.

Agreed.

[ClydeFrog]

If you have the time & the $$$, Gemini Customs does some high class Ruger DA revolver work.
They have packages & choices for the SP101, GPs, Super RedHawks, etc.

See www.geminicustoms.com .

CF

[WildBill45]

Get a Freedom Arms 454 as your SMALL GUN. Handguns are weak and tiny for big bears in a DEFENSIVE SCENARIO, hunting you can use smaller guns. But if a bear has your address, and he will in defense cases, a 500 S&W is the real tool. Let no one tell you different if you are wise.

Like a cop, they want to carry off-duty a 12 oz. .38, BUT, and there always is a but in life, if a bad guy shows up with a gun or knife they wish they had a 500 S&W ... Trust me!!!

The chances of you being attacked by a grizz is very low, very ... a black bear would be more likely there, as they are predatory unlike your Michigan blackies. BUT, if you need a HANDGUN in a close & personal meeting with your life on the line, use the largest handgun you can and WILL CARRY .... PERIOD. If you are wimpy on the recoil start dropping down in caliber to get where you can hit reliably, cause no hits is useless!!!

Nothing under .44 mag, but start with the .454, 475 Linbaugh, and up! Freedom Arms is the ROLLSROYCE of handguns and has a high resale value, and is fun to shoot period. A double-action has a big advantage though if you get into a weird position, hurt on one arm, or pinned down, etc ... you just point and shoot, and can do it one-handed if needed...

I loved carrying my Freedom Arms .454 everywhere, even Africa as Lion protection when hunting with a bow. I seriously doubt that I could hit a charging lion with a handgun, and I damn good, damn good. Lions are so fast, and not seen on TV when speed is not real just like Nascar on TV. If you have ever seen a charging lion in person, or a bear at full speed, you will see that it takes the best of the best to hit one in such a situation, IF, YOU CAN GET YOUR GUN OUT TO BEAR ON THE BEAR IN THE FIRST PLACE! MOST DON'T!!! This is why you need the most impact on the first shot, IF YOU EVEN GET ONE!

HAVE FUN IN ALASKA, BUT DO NOT WORRY TOO MUCH ABOUT THE BEARS; YOU SHOULD FEEL BLESSED EVEN IF YOU SEE ONE!

[newfrontier45]

Handguns are weak and tiny for big bears...

Handguns are more difficult to hit with. A proper hardcast LBT or Keith style SWC with a sectional density of .270 at 1200-1300fps will break bones and fully penetrate virtually any brown bear from virtually any angle. Ross Seyfried proved their effectiveness against Cape buffalo, with 360gr .45's penetrating four feet of hide, heavy bone and muscle. A much larger critter than any brown bear. You can't ask for more than that, unless you worship energy. In which case, only a .470NE will do.

[Erno86]

If you feel overburdened by recoil from the 454...you can still use some high pressure hard cast 45 Colt loads {in the same revolver}, that should be suitable for a one-on-one confrontation with a bear.

[wyobohunter]

I'll comment on the X frame S&W (460 & 500). Yup, they are the most powerful of the commonly available handguns but I sold my 500 after only a few months (not sure exactly how long... Less than a year for sure) of ownership. Would I complain about the hurkiness if I ever had to face a mean critter? No, I wouldn't. But it really was awful to carry, may as well been hauling a rifle. In the end I decided to sell it and go with a Ruger Alaskan in 454. I always had that with me unless I was packing a rifle, and even then I still had it with me sometimes (like when calling for predators only armed with a .243 or .223).

Keep in mind, your defensive gun is only worth having if it isn't a burden to pack.

Also, an earlier poster said that your odds of being charged by a brown bear are slim. He is absolutely correct. I lived, fished, hunted the Kenai Peninsula for ten years and only saw 3 brown bears and was never charged. I did see gobs of black bears, especially while in the high country. If you are going to the Mat-Su valley your experience should be similar, still. Be prepared.

Other parts of AK you will see lots more brownies, Kodiak, AK peninsula, ABC islands etc.

[Deaf Smith]

My neighbors sons both work for Princess Rail Tours between Anchorage and Denali. The last time they were home visiting, we chatted about this exact subject. Both of them carry 44 Mag Ruger Blackhawks 300gr hard cast's and bear spray when fishing. When camping they will occasionally tote a 12ga shotgun loaded with Brenneke hardened slugs.

I don't see why that won't work just fine. With full 300 gr loads the .44 is a beast on both ends and while I like the .454 the .44 is not a BB gun.

And bear spray I'd take along just in case it's a bluff charge (a full charging bear runs as fast or faster than a horse so you won't have much time at all!)

And the 12 gauge shootie is best off all (and a lot cheaper than most pistols.)

Deaf

[dorc-1]

Azak I always carry a can of bear spray. My hiking is confined to BC, Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming. Many windy days make it difficult to deploy with effectiveness........but I will use it if possible.....especially with a Sow/cubs if there is time.

[wyobohunter]

Good point about the wind and pepper spray.

Admittedly I'm no guru as I've never faced a charge. My gut and other threat response training tell me it's best to practice one (lethal) response and consider having a backup like pepper spray if the situation allows time to think about non-lethal response. As others mentioned. If a real charge happens there will not be time to consider options.

This must be the 20th charging bear thread I've participated in. Glad we talk about it more than it happens.

[wild cat mccane]

Actually you are better off with pepper spray than any gun.

Wind? ha. Shot the bear spray? It shoots 30+ feet. Stream is powerful and tight.

[landrand]

Although bear attacks are very rare here in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, they do happen. Four years ago my neighbor was attacked by a mother bear while walking a big ole 12 year dog he just adopted a week prior from the humane society. He got between the mother and the cubs and she attacked him several times; grabbing him by his lower arm as he raised it to protect himself. While he was fighting the bear, his dog barked and nabbed at the bear until finally the bear let go and went after the dog. In essence, my neighbor saved the dog from being put down at the humane society and the dog thanked him by quite possibly saving his life from the bear. The bear messed up his arm pretty bad and I think he had to get a series of rabies shots. After the attack, whenever my neighbor came over to visit he always had a sidearm strapped to his side.

This summer I had a run in with a mother bear while I was mountain biking and running my dogs on an ole two track road near my house. Far in front of my dogs, as I came down a long hill and turned a corner at the bottom, there she was; a mother bear and 3 cubs. The cubs instantly took off but the mother stood her ground and aggressively charged several times. Finally, my dogs caught up and when she saw the dogs, the bear took off.

It was the scariest moment of my life, and quite frankly, I didn’t know what to do. In the few seconds of the encounter I thought about fighting back, using my bike as a shield, or perhaps playing dead. It was a surreal moment. Although I didn’t do anything except stand there straddling my bike while she false charged, I now realize being educated and prepared for bear attacks is important if you spend a lot of time in the woods.

On the way home after the incident, I told myself I’d never again venture in the woods without a handgun or some kind of protection. The next week, I bought a 10mm Smith & Wesson 1006 specifically for UP black bear protection. I wish I would’ve know then that I’d be going to Alaska as I probably would have bought a bigger gun such as the 44 or 454. Guns and ammo were much easier to find and cheaper to buy last summer compared to today.

[WildBill45]

Actually you are better off with pepper spray than any gun.

Bears actually LIKE pepper spray once it is on something, LIKE YOU, it makes for a tastier lunch break!!! Trust me, if you are on a mountain in the wind, IT WILL BLOW BACK IN YOUR FACE!!! and you will make a nice snack

The stats are good for bear spray, but in the real world stats are just numbers if you are THE ONE actually being attacked.

Stats say airlines are super safe, so why wear a safely belt???

[WildBill45]

even then I still had it with me sometimes (like when calling for predators only armed with a .243 or .223).

I know THAT FEELING! I always had my 454 with me as well calling, as sometimes big and nasty things with big teeth may show up, not just a coyote!!!

Cats, big or small are rarely seen until they very close or on you already ... had to detect by us humans!!!

Never leave home for the woods without a handgun and toilet paper (the most likely time you will see game is when in the process of using that toilet paper, hence my always carry policy!!!)

[newfrontier45]

Trust me, if you are on a mountain in the wind, IT WILL BLOW BACK IN YOUR FACE!!! and you will make a nice snack

Bear spray may or may not work on a bear but it will work on YOU every single time! You think you're helpless against a bear with a handgun, try rubbing some concentrated pepper sauce in your face.

[dorc-1]

Yeah, supposedly they will go 30'. While hiking Glacier last year, I had the safety off on the spray and forgot to put it back when I got back to the motel. Long story short, the spray fell off the end table while packing. In a matter of seconds I couldn't catch my breath. I ran out in the hall choking and housecleaning tried to go back in and open the window. She was overcome. They were glad to see me leave

Blowback is a real problem on a windy day, and I refuse to use it under those circumstances.

[wyobohunter]

Ever try spraying that pepper into a 30+ mph wind? I haven't either.

I think it's a great idea to have the spray as well as a good firearm. If only carrying one the firearm is more versatile.

I posted this in the "Ruger Alaskan" thread as well.

Not sure if you heard about this story, a Soldatna AK man got very lucky with a CNS hit on a charging 1/2 starved old brownie. After the fatal shot his cylinder locked up. He had cartridges loaded that were in the gun for multiple firings.

Read the story here.

http://peninsulaclarion.com/stories/...78669517.shtml

[dorc-1]

I've seen that story. Huge bear without teeth that was in tough shape. The no teeth issue wouldn't have stopped him from killing this guy and tearing him apart with his claws. Most attacks are luck when a bear is shot and killed. The fact he got off 2 or 3 and hit CNS was even more amazing.

My favorite attack were the 5 guys last year that went back the next morning to find a bull elk that had been bow shot the evening before. Of course a big male was waiting for them when they got there and charged. 4 guys had large caliber handguns and 1 had a shotgun with birdshot. The 4 guys emptied their handguns as the bear charged again and again. His final charge he got within 20 feet when the shotgun blast hit him and sent him on his way. The rangers found the blood trail, but figured the bear survived as it was minimal.

Most days I hike it's a pretty good wind unless it's early in the morning. I worry more about sow/cubs as they tend to use the trails quite a bit. I've been fortunate to only run into a young male many years ago in BC. After a couple of bluffs he moved on, but it scared the crap out of me.

[wyobohunter]

The bear had teeth, they were very worn but they were there.

[WildBill45]

I will be going to Palmer, Alaska for 6 months for a work project.

They have a nice park where I eat my local 'Grizzly Chips' a fine potato chip, and a nice combo-deli sandwich from the deli across the street from the park and city garden... Lovely place with a mountain backdrop.

Back on point.

Remember one thing amongst all the other tips you have received,

DON'T MISS IF YOU SHOOT!!!

[AZAK]

Trust me, if you are on a mountain in the wind, IT WILL BLOW BACK IN YOUR FACE!!! and you will make a nice snack

The evidence just does not support your claim:
"As for the wind, Smith reported that in "7 percent of bear spray incidents, wind was reported to have interfered with spray accuracy, although it reached bears in every case."
"Ninety-eight percent were uninjured by bears in close-range encounters," they concluded. The few that were injured suffered minor wounds.
Clearly, Smith said, the stuff works.
Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2008/04/20/381252...#storylink=cpy
Versus:

a Soldatna AK man got very lucky with a CNS hit on a charging 1/2 starved old brownie.

I will take the No fatalities, No serious injuries, with or without wind, in Alaska every time that it has been used than just wish to be "lucky".

That said, I do carry either one or a combination of: a rifle, shotgun with slugs, handgun as back up year round. In the Winter, when it is really cold, I leave the spray at home; no need to have it explode while on my person. Only then do I rely on a firearm as my primary defense considering bears, which are not true hibernators.
YMMV