May 19, 2017, 08:34 PM | #1 |
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308 M1?
Anyone convert their Garand to 308? A lot cheaper than 30-06. I hear all it needs is a barrel swap and a spacer.
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May 19, 2017, 09:14 PM | #2 |
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The Marines had a few when I was in. There was a sleeve in the chamber. Every once and a while the sleeve would come out with an empty case. Been a long time. I don't remember the feed set up anymore.
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May 19, 2017, 09:52 PM | #3 |
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I would never insult the character of an M1 Garand by "converting" it to 308 for the sake of cheaper ammo!!!
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May 19, 2017, 10:43 PM | #4 |
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It doesn't need a barrel swap, just a chamber insert. The Navy did it that way, for quite a few years.
and, yes, once in a while, the insert would come out during firing, but they kept using the system until they got actual m14s. There MAY be some M1s with chamber inserts still in service today, I don't know, only that the Navy isn't much concerned with rifles unless the caliber is measured in whole inches. If ammo and gun tolerances "line up" right, you can fire .308 in a .30-06 chamber. The .308 case is slightly larger in diameter at the shoulder than the 06 case is at that same distance from the case head. The .308 wedges into the 06 chamber and forms a sufficient gas seal. (again, IF everything is within spec) the .308 case fireforms, leaving about no case neck, and the bullet strikes low, about 6" at 100yds. With a slightly oversize chamber or undersize cases, this doesn't work well, so a chamber insert is used to make up for that. Never used one, personally, but have heard stories on both ends, where they sometimes, come out on firing, and other stories where the inserts get "pressure welded" into the chamber and NEVER come out. I see either one as equally possible.
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May 19, 2017, 11:12 PM | #5 |
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Commercial inserts available here, if you want to cheap out.
http://www.mcace.com/adapters.HTM There was a time when a .308 M1 was favored for service rifle matches, more accurate than either a .30-06 M1 or an M14. But I gather that is not the OP's interest. |
May 19, 2017, 11:16 PM | #6 |
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Thanks I really don't care if you wouldn't "insult the character" of your M1 because I see them as the tools they are and don't feel silly emotions towards inanimate objects. I don't really see how converting one to .308 is somehow wrong, considering the Navy did that to thousands of them.
So I did more reading, one can do a chamber sleeve or put a new barrel in, and add an optional spacer part just to keep any .30-06 rounds out of the action. Seems like a good way to run cheaper .308 and have the same overall experience. Just looking to see if anyone has ever actually done this here. |
May 19, 2017, 11:17 PM | #7 |
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I used to have a bunch of 7.62 NATO (.308) cases that I fired in an un-modified M1 rifle just to show a know-it-all that the gun would not blow up if that was done accidentally. The cases look a bit like rimless .45-70. The rifle functioned perfectly.
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May 20, 2017, 09:13 AM | #8 |
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CMP sells .308 M1s. The rebarrel them and put a spacer block in the magazine, so you can't accidentally load .30-06.
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May 20, 2017, 09:17 AM | #9 |
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A little off track here, but am curious about the gas seal mentioned. I fired a 6.5 Arisaka in a 6.5x55 chamber. Not intentionally. Think about the length difference there. It had a very short neck and had formed to the chamber. I bet it had grown in length by over .200. The case was nice and clean when it came out. So, do you think the case has time to totally expand before the bullet is completely out of the case? It was an Arisaka action and the extractor held the case against the bolt face.
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May 20, 2017, 11:22 AM | #10 | |
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Quote:
The guard guys kept grabbing the 308 ammo and running them through the Garands. Like you said, the brass looked like an in-belted 458 Win. I had to put another ammo guy on orders to issue the right ammo to the right student. They functioned but accuracy suffered a bit. I have two Garands. One I got from the DCM a long time ago. The second I built at the CMPs Advanced Maint. Clinic. I debated making it in 308 but decided to stick to the '06 because its a Garand. The army's M1s were '06, the Navy used 308 Garands, and I'm Army so I had to have Army M1s. When I ran the AK NG Marksmanship Unit, the AK Air Guard had Match M1s in 308. I agree if you just want plinking ammo, the 308 would be cheaper, but I shoot mine in CMP GSM matches and load match ammo so there wouldn't be any cost savings. Plus I can use the same ammo in my M1903A2, A4 and M1917 witch I also shoot in the CMP Games. I still have my M1A and Mode 70 Tgt if I want to shoot 308s.
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May 20, 2017, 11:27 AM | #11 |
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You have a 1903A2 as used to be an artillery subcaliber insert?
Neat. |
May 20, 2017, 11:56 AM | #12 |
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"...chamber insert. The Navy..." And quit doing it because those inserts had a tendency to come out upon extraction.
"...brass looked like an in-belted(SIC) 458 Win..." More like a .444 Marlin. "...The guard guys kept grabbing the 308 ammo..." And they weren't kicked off the range? RSO appeared to not be in control of his range. "...my M1903A2..." Got the tank or arty piece to go with it? snicker. Anyway, if you want a .308 M1, change the barrel and open the gas hole to .1". The mag well spacer is optional. It just extends the feed ramp a bit and may or may not be required. A hunk of neoprene or nylon glued in makes a good spacer.
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May 20, 2017, 12:11 PM | #13 |
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I had an M1 in .308 that had been rebarreled and set up as a match rifle. The gun was an H&R that was all matching except for the barrel.
I suspect from the looks of the op rod, it was a host because of a barrel that had been screwed up using corrosive ammo and not cleaning it properly. Ive seen this on a couple of other M1's that had the issue. Other than some corrosion on the op rod, the rest of the rifle was basically pristine. Mine always shot well, but I never really noticed any difference in accuracy between it and my M1's in 30-06. I sold mine, but it took quite awhile, as most didnt seem to like the idea it was in .308. |
May 20, 2017, 08:51 PM | #14 |
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I have a cmp special in 308. It shows signs of excellent accuracy. .5 now is not uncommon for 5 shot groups at 100. Trigger needs a bit of work. It's probably more 1 moa, tough to say my eyes are definetly a limitation. I removed the spacer block. Never had a feeding issue or the thought to put an 06 round in it. One of my favorite rifles for sure. Cmp uses Boyd's stocks and criterion barrels in their specials. Would definetly recommend.
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May 21, 2017, 06:07 AM | #15 |
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May 21, 2017, 06:24 AM | #16 |
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I earned the first leg points towards my Distinguished Badge with a .308 Garand. Built by a AMU armorer as a match rifle with a commercial .308 barrel and no spacer. Well balanced consistent performer with 168gr projectiles.
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May 21, 2017, 06:43 AM | #17 |
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Two of my Garands are barreled in 7.62 X 51.They are just a little more accurate than my Garands that wear original barrels in .30 US/.30-06.Maybe just because the barrels are newer than the military barrels but the difference is noticeable.Seem to recoil a bit softer too.Their character remains intact.
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May 21, 2017, 07:08 AM | #18 |
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I always thought a 308 M1 would be fun too so I bought a M1A, works just fine.
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May 21, 2017, 07:24 AM | #19 |
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I do think .308 Garands are nice... just I wouldn't get one.
Already have a Garand in .30-06. I have a N/M M1A, so I rather keep .308 in magazines and .30-06 in enbloc clips. I do have an Ishapore 2A1, so stripper clips can go either way... since I also have a M1903 (is a reproduction USMC sniper, so don't use clips anymore). For me to get a .308 Garand... I'm at the same argument that I had with the M1A. The .308 isn't doing anything that a .30-06 can't... and if I'm not getting a removable magazine, why invest? Again, that is completely my stance on it. I've heard good things about them (especially the Navy conversions), but if I got another Garand, it would be .30-06... and likely a Mini-G. |
May 21, 2017, 08:52 AM | #20 |
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While I do not have a .308 Winchester or 7.62 NATO chambering I do have one I rebarreled in 7mm - 08 Remington:
I have one in the standard 30-06 Springfield chambering also and if I get a beater I have a .308 Winchester barrel I can put on it. While I have read about chamber adapters I have never used one. They get some bad rap as to coming out with a spent cartridge. As far as doing the barrel swap all that is needed is a barrel chambered in .308 Winchester and the tools to do the swap. The most challenging part in my opinion was indexing the barrel. All of the needed tools are available from Brownells. I like the .308 guns simply because I feel a reduction in the recoil. Not to say the M1 Garand in the 30-06 Springfield chambering is punishing but the .308 Winchester flavors are more pleasing to shoot. I like my 7mm-08 version as it is just plain fun and enjoyable to shoot. Ron |
May 21, 2017, 09:29 PM | #21 |
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Have many M1s in 30.06, and several in .308/7.62.
This .308 "Special" was built by CMP armorers on an HRA receiver, using in-spec USGI parts, a Criterion barrel, and new Dupage wood. It's hands down the best shooter in my M1 collection. Last edited by agtman; May 22, 2017 at 06:24 PM. |
May 22, 2017, 04:05 PM | #22 |
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Made my own 7.62NATO M1 Garand....
bought a well used M1 from dealer prior to Clinton forcing those guys out-of -business.
Bought "short-chambered" 7.63 barrel from Douglas, Inc., attended the National that year (1995) and the Gents @ the DCM van, pulled and installed the barrels, and rechambered to correct headspace, using Mil-Spec standards. Bought a good birch M1 stock and followed the inletting specs found in Kunhansens' book. Refinish the stock and mounted the handguards as specified in the the book. No Spaacer as I located a laser engraver that engraved a sight cover with "7.62 NATO". WORKS NICELY! glad I did it. |
May 22, 2017, 04:27 PM | #23 | |
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jwrothWA:
Quote:
Ron |
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May 22, 2017, 06:32 PM | #24 |
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As far as that commonly seen .308/7.62 plastic "spacer" goes, ... it's not a feeding aid.
It's actually a simple safety device. It's meant to keep the cartridge-ignorant/newbie dimwits out there from trying their mightiest to jam an en-bloc clip of 30.06 rounds into a .308 chambering. Stay focused my dudenals. It ain't rocket science. |
May 26, 2017, 02:47 AM | #25 |
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Tanker
Yes, I know, there was never actually a GI "tanker".
But there are these days, and even shorter M1's, Shuff's Mini-G being the most recent. Always thought that a short M1 would be well suited to the .308. There was a time when I was really hot to get a tanker. Now, I doubt that I could resolve the front sight well enough on a shorty to shoot it satisfactorily. |
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