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Old May 11, 2018, 03:09 PM   #1
Carmady
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Short-case .38 Spl for snubs?

With all the hype and marketing regarding SD ammo I'm surprised that no one (that I know of) has ever had the swell idea of making .38 Special with shorter cases, cases short enough to be knocked out completely like the 3" barrel guns with full length ejector rods.

It would be similar to shooting Specials in a Magnum, but more extreme.

The ammo manufacturers could claim faster and more reliable reloading in snubs.

.38 Special snubs are a big part of the cc/edc market, so while the market may seem small it could be large enough to make it worthwhile. I think people (not me, I'm a cheapo) would buy that stuff.
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Old May 11, 2018, 03:11 PM   #2
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38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt.....
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Old May 11, 2018, 03:26 PM   #3
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The .38 Short Colt ejects fine, but it is woefully inadequate as a defense round. Handloaded, maybe.

But use a Model 19 S&W and shoot .38 Specials, even if that does make you a YouTube weenie.

An advantage of the 9mm revolver used with full moon clips is that the en masse unit does eject more positively.

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Old May 11, 2018, 03:46 PM   #4
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http://www.luckygunner.com/38-specia...tech-50-rounds

And Starline makes 38 short Colt brass.
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Old May 11, 2018, 04:41 PM   #5
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That is a brilliant idea, Carmady!
Sort of like the new .45 "cowboy" cases by starline. A shorter .45 Colt case.

SSA, would the .38 short Colt brass take the same pressure as the .38 special. I assume that reloading the same amount of powder in a shorter case would raise some pressure, but the Federal HST Micro with the flush loaded wadcutter hollowpoint is a similar idea of decreasing the case space for more consistent FPS between rounds.
Quote:
An advantage of the 9mm revolver used with full moon clips is that the en masse unit does eject more positively.
But the disadvantage is the inability to do tactical 2 round reloads if necessary (having to dump the entire cylinder load at once or fire until empty and reload).
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Old May 11, 2018, 05:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
SSA, would the .38 short Colt brass take the same pressure as the .38 special.
In a revolver the brass does not contain any pressure, just the cylinder (besides the case head).
Quote:
I assume that reloading the same amount of powder in a shorter case would raise some pressure, but the Federal HST Micro with the flush loaded wadcutter hollowpoint is a similar idea of decreasing the case space for more consistent FPS between rounds.
Federal has access to test equipment most reloaders do not. It would take a lot of experimentation for little gain. Optimizing a SD for a 2" 38 is like tweaking the fuel carb on a Yugo, you get more speed but not enough to sneeze at.
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Old May 11, 2018, 05:21 PM   #7
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Odd that, I have never had any problem in ejecting regular 38 brass in any 38 I've owned? I had no ideal there was a problem !
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Old May 11, 2018, 05:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
(besides the case head)
The case head is part of the brass!
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Old May 11, 2018, 05:47 PM   #9
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Indeed

The brass case does indeed contain the pressure. Rifle, pistol, revolver, they all contain the pressure.
Really bad things happen......when it does not.
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Old May 11, 2018, 07:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
The case head is part of the brass!
I have never heard of a case head failure with modern revolver brass. I have split numerous cases from sizing too many times.
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Old May 11, 2018, 07:59 PM   #11
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If you invert the cylinder and punch the brass out aggressively when you do a tactical reload the brass should fall right out of the chambers. I've never encountered a problem.
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Old May 11, 2018, 08:56 PM   #12
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Sportsman Guide sells Magtech .38 special shorts.
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Old May 11, 2018, 09:10 PM   #13
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Nanuk saith:

Quote:
I have never heard of a case head failure with modern revolver brass. I have split numerous cases from sizing too many times.
I have had case heads blown off in both .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum. For awhile I kept taps on hand to remove blown cases.

Don't have the info in front of me now, but believe 3/8-16 and a 7/16" tap were the correct ones.

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Old May 11, 2018, 09:14 PM   #14
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From far back in my memory, I believe the .38 Special +P was developed for Sky Marshals to use in their Model 19s for just this reason, positive extraction.

Or not.


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Old May 11, 2018, 10:15 PM   #15
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It’s very common for competitive ICORE shooters to use 38 short colts for both faster drop in using moonclips and more positive extraction.

Handloading recipes are all over the Brian Enos forums. Heavier bullets going slower speeds are preferred for the lower recoil at the same power factor.

My personal competition load uses a 135 gn bullet going about 1070 fps. No flattened primers or sticky extraction. I would be hesitant to shoot them in a 38 special gun as it’s based on 9mm recipes. But it would not be hard to download it to 38+p levels.


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Old May 11, 2018, 10:48 PM   #16
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Starline sells the short Colt .38 as "basically a shortened .38 special brass"!
https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-...rt-Colt-Brass/
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Old May 11, 2018, 11:16 PM   #17
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I've cut .38 Special cases down to make ersatz .38 S&W cases for my old Police Positive. It doesn't work very well. I thought they would blow out to the slightly chamber, but they only do that at the mouth. The case web prevents the bottom half from fire-forming to the chamber, then the cases stick for some reason. The web also causes problems seating the bullets.

I still have a bunch of the cut-down cases. I should try them in a .38 Special. But I think the case web bullet seating problem will still be there.

OTOH, you might can resize real .38 S&W cases down to make short .38 Specials. (or just buy .38 Shorts)
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Old May 11, 2018, 11:48 PM   #18
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There's a youtuber I watch a lot who has done several videos on .38 Short Colt. He's handloaded his up to .38 Special pressures and I think he was getting 927 fps with 125 grain bullets. He believes that the .38 Short Colt can hit 1000 fps with the same bullet using a bit more powder, but the point is the .38 Short Colt has the potential to be a sufficiently powerful self defense round.

And given that there are no .38 Short Colt revolvers even remotely available on the antique market, there's no reason manufacuters couldn't make a modern self defense ammo using the short cases and put on the box in big, bold letters "FOR USE IN .38 SPECIAL REVOLVERS ONLY."

The other nice part about .38 Short Colt is that they stick out of a speedloader much less than .38 Special and make the speedloaders or speed strips easier to carry.
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Old May 11, 2018, 11:55 PM   #19
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There are 38 S&W wheel guns kicking around. There are snubs, solid frames with longer barrels and shorter, top breaks etc. Ammo is not to hard to find.
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Old May 12, 2018, 01:33 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thibaultfelix40 View Post
There are 38 S&W wheel guns kicking around. There are snubs, solid frames with longer barrels and shorter, top breaks etc. Ammo is not to hard to find.
Yeah, the thing is the .38 S&W is weak. It's so weak, I can't even call it a mouse fart cartridge, maybe an ant fart.
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Old May 12, 2018, 08:38 AM   #21
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Short-case .38 Spl for snubs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kymasabe View Post
Sportsman Guide sells Magtech .38 special shorts.


these magtech 38 cbc shorts, as well as 38 wadcutters, are perfect fits for anyone needing softer recoil with a 38 spl lightweight snubbie. absolutely perfect.


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Old May 12, 2018, 01:35 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstert View Post
these magtech 38 cbc shorts, as well as 38 wadcutters, are perfect fits for anyone needing softer recoil with a 38 spl lightweight snubbie. absolutely perfect.


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I agree, I've shot plenty of them, the .38 special shorts are my go-to round for teaching new shooters, very low recoil. Magtech says they're brass cased, boxer primed and reloadable too. You can find them here:
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/prod...ounds?a=357941
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Old May 12, 2018, 01:44 PM   #23
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so confused as to whether those are the same as the starline .38 short Colt cases for reloading?
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Old May 12, 2018, 08:14 PM   #24
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Quote:
I have had case heads blown off in both .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum. For awhile I kept taps on hand to remove blown cases.
Really, wow. I have shot tens of thousands of both with no problems. Of course while warm my loads are all SAAMI recipes.

Are you talking about a case separation or a blown out case head?
Are you talking new brass or stuff that has been reloaded 20 times?
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Old May 13, 2018, 05:10 AM   #25
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Quote:
But the disadvantage is the inability to do tactical 2 round reloads if necessary (having to dump the entire cylinder load at once or fire until empty and reload).
I was taught - by the firearms instructor/armour of the East Cleveland Police Department - back at a time when the .38 spl revolver was still issed & taught to the police department...

You reload when the opportunity presents itself. That means you kick open the cylinder, point the muzzle up & punch the ejector rod. You may dump one or two or even three live rounds, but, you bring the gun up to full capacity.

In that respect, I don't see where ejecting 9mm en masse is an issue or problem.
IMHO - tactical is the type of stuff that goes on in games & in the real world it gets you hurt - or worse.

Quote:
In a revolver the brass does not contain any pressure, just the cylinder (besides the case head).
I lean towards that idea also. IMHO - the brass should act as a gasket & the cylinder should be the pressure vessel - - along with the breech (recoil shield).

Last edited by Hal; May 13, 2018 at 05:16 AM.
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