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Old October 1, 2016, 06:41 PM   #126
K_Mac
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Whether I have hardened my house sufficiently to withstand an aggressive attack or not, there are plenty of times when we are in and out of the house taking care of things. When the grandkids are here, they are constantly running in and out playing as children will. Living where I do, I am probably more concerned with dogs than thugs or zombies, but having made the decision to always carry at home, I don't have to worry about not having a gun if one is needed. That decision doesn't negatively impact me or anyone else, and I think it is a practical choice. Now to quote Forest, Forest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."
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Old October 1, 2016, 07:59 PM   #127
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Things would be bad if i felt that threatened i needed to walk around the house carrying a firearm.
My "home" is 40 acres, and my "threats" are more likely to be animals rather than human.

By carrying a gun all the time, I'm prepared for either type without "feeling threatened" by anything at all.

The last "threat" I shot was the Fox that had been killing my chickens, and I wouldn't have gotten her if I had to go to my safe first to get my gun

People like to imagine narrowly constructed scenarios (like "hordes of armed invaders"), trying to imply that's the only real danger, when there are many other reasons having a gun on you at all times simply makes good sense.

It's not always about "paranoia"
It's about preparation.
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Old October 1, 2016, 09:10 PM   #128
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Some of us live in apartments and don't have authorization to reinforce our doors and windows.
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Old October 1, 2016, 09:16 PM   #129
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If all I need is 5-10 seconds to reach my shotgun (or pistol),
That a life time in a home invasion and you likely won't make it. Get a 380 KelTec or Ruger or a snub 38 and learn to pocket carry at home . A shotgun or pistol in closet When need NOW . Is just something else to loose in a home invasion .

I need sheriff while back 45 mins Drunk People causing trouble on my property. I live in country. By time they arrived they had moved on I gave them lic number . My Sheriff Dept has 11 people 6 work in court house
1 in office Leave 3 + Sherriff for patrol 24/7 . Thank less job they have.
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Old October 2, 2016, 11:19 AM   #130
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Here's a question to those who think they can get to their firearm in 5 seconds. Can you really do that from the backyard, driveway, or garage? Also, how long do you think it takes to kick in a door? Heck, I have a brace bar on my doors and I still think it will only take no more than 10 seconds to kick it in.

Like I'd said in my earlier post in this thread - people should do what they are comfortable with.
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Old October 2, 2016, 12:02 PM   #131
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If i received one of these threat notices", known as PM1 i would reconsider my security, because there was a creditable threat. At this time i am sitting in the house door unlocked guns in safe i feel perfectly safe. The tough of being constantly armed and on alert is not the way i choose to live. PS Stray dogs are not an issue here.

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More people go armed as Ulster dissident threat grows
Violent paramilitary opposition to the Northern Ireland peace agreement is at its fiercest for 10 years, investigation reveals An estimated 500 "threat notices", known as PM1 forms, were issued last year by police to individuals under threat from terrorists, according to a police source.
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Old October 2, 2016, 06:20 PM   #132
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As the OP of this thread, it's time for me to chime in again. Overall, there have been many excellent ideas and suggestions posted in this thread.

My favorite is that it makes little sense to defend your household with guns if you do not have your doors and windows reasonably secured first. Absolutely, I agree. First things first, and I am now considering replacing my doors with stronger, reinforced ones. (My window are reasonably secure).

Also, it makes more sense to me to carry a loaded pistol on my person around the house than it does to leave loaded guns in every room. As FireForged pointed out, "Common sense dictates that a person can more easily control less material in less space than they can more material in a greater space." Bravo.

Several members, such as K_Mac, carry their guns with them at home, which I think is fine and there are many valid reasons to do so. But as I pointed out originally, I am not comfortable doing so (and neither are the other members of my household). However, every member of my household, including me, is comfortable carrying pepper spray (or gel or foam).

The latter is why I started this thread in the first place.

One last thing: michael_t misquoted me and mislead this forum with his post #129. While I agree with him that 5-10 seconds is a lifetime in a home invasion encounter, my statement was contingent on the idea that I have a cannister of pepper spray on my person -- and by using pepper spray, I can buy the time I would need to acquire the firearms I might need. michael_t completely left that part out when he quoted me.
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Old October 2, 2016, 09:00 PM   #133
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May I ask if you have ever deployed pepper spray in an enclosed area?
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Old October 2, 2016, 09:15 PM   #134
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May I ask if you have ever deployed pepper spray in an enclosed area?
I brought that up earlier. I used it once on a dog with a very bad attitude on my porch. I had the door open and enough wafted into the house that my wife and I about choked to death before we could get rid of it. I am told that foam is better for inside use, but is much harder to hit your target. I carry pepper spray most of the time, but I am not using it in my house unless it is a last resort, knowing it may do more harm than good.
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Old October 3, 2016, 05:11 PM   #135
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That a life time in a home invasion and you likely won't make it
How do you make that determination having no idea what the circumstances are or how my home is constructed?

If my doors were left standing wide open, a person could not get to me sitting in my easy chair in 5 seconds. If they had no barriers to breach, knew where they were going and did so at a full run, they might make it to me in 10. It takes me 8 seconds at a full run to get out of the house and that is running down stairs and no locked doors.

I would like to here how I am not "likely" to be able to arm myself at the onset of a home invasion with people who don't know where I am, have never been in my home, have to breach at least 2 doors(maybe 3) then defeat (2) 90 pound dogs. I can casually arm myself at a walk, in 5 seconds. I doubt a home invader is going to swing into my den on the second floor through 2 panes of glass.
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Last edited by FireForged; October 3, 2016 at 05:49 PM.
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Old October 3, 2016, 06:01 PM   #136
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I can casually arm myself at a walk, in 5 seconds. I doubt a home invader is going to swing into my den on the second floor through 2 panes of glass.
That's one of those narrowly constructed scenarios I mentioned.

You're implying you'll always be upstairs with your doors locked when in reality people go in and out of their houses at various times, and are in different rooms doing different things.

Many spend a lot of time in the yard with no doors to slow anyone down, and no gun "5 seconds away".

There is no one correct answer, and there are no places truly "safe" all the time
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Old October 3, 2016, 07:31 PM   #137
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a "home invasion" suggests that I am inside my home. Its not a home invasion if I am in the driveway shooting hoops.

My home is the common layout all over the South East. Maybe what you are envisioning is a hollow core door on a 500 square foot studio apartment. That is what I would call a narrowly constructed scenario.
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Old October 3, 2016, 07:33 PM   #138
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I don't normally carry my gun in my home is not the same as in my yard. If I am in my home the doors are locked and bolted
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Old October 3, 2016, 07:44 PM   #139
Pep in CA
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K_Mac, you've been a key contributor to this thread and I appreciate your input and respect your experience, but I have to ask for clarification on something you said in your last post.

You said you would only use pepper spray in your house as a last resort, citing that you and your wife nearly choked to death after spraying a belligerent dog.

So here is what I ask for clarification: would you rather have shot the dog? Or moreover, if it was a human being instead of a dog, would you rather shoot or spray the perpetrator, even though spraying means you and your wife might feel discomfort?

Please clarify.
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Old October 3, 2016, 08:50 PM   #140
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Pep, that is a good question. If I had the incident with the dog to do again I would have used a shovel or broom to get the dog away from the door, closed the door, and then sprayed it to prevent the overspray from entering my house. I did not want to kill the dog, just wanted to let it know it wasn't welcome and I was not going to allow it to be aggressive with me. If the dog had continued its aggression I would have shot it.

A human aggressor threatening me on my porch would be a very different situation. Whether I used pepper spray or a gun would depend. Is he armed? Is he bigger than me? Has he threatened me or mine? Am I afraid of getting a black eye, or in fear of my life?

The problem with spray in an enclosed space with a human attacker is multilayered. First, it may not stop the attack. Second, it will almost certainly reduce your ability to defend yourself. I am not talking about a little discomfort. I am talking about being unable to breath and see well enough to function. Third, it may give a sense of security while not actually giving any.

I carry pepper spray regularly. I think it is a good option in some situations where lethal force can be avoided. If someone is attacking me or my family on my property I am probably not going to use pepper spray. Inside my house I am definitely not using it. I am afraid for me and my family, and I have responsibility for their safety. It is the reason I carry a gun.
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Old October 4, 2016, 01:11 AM   #141
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If we have learned any one thing here it is that no two situations will be the same.

Change layout, structure, room that you stay in, all sorts of variables. A smashed door is going to be a distraction. I admit that it isn't going to be simple to get the guys if my door is kicked in when i'm on the ground floor, and this thing is as solidly built as it can be. It won't be easy to break in. If we are staying upstairs, we could have a zombie horde come in and all I'd have to do is call and wait for either bad guys to come up or cops to arrive. Just in my home, I can see so many different events.


what will probably happen is that I will be in the can when it happens, and gee, that is only fifteen feet from the front door in a direct line. I always suspected that I would die in the bathroom. In this house, that really is possible.

be in the half bath, hear the door bashed in, and I'm there unprepared and totally exposed when I open that door. I might be able to duck around the corner and get to the basement, and if i'm alone, okay. There are still dozens of scenarios just involving our ground floor, and some of them are hopeless unless I carry.

One of the things that I really believe in is using motion sensors and an enclosed corridor or fence that forces the bad guys to follow a certain path, and a motion sensor set on that "trail" that alarms the home is a great idea. At my old house, I actually installed a full magnet controlled alarm on my gates that would buzz if they opened.
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Old October 4, 2016, 01:12 AM   #142
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I honestly think that having a home security consulutant looking over the place is the best thing. Not an alarm company, someone like a cop.
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Old October 4, 2016, 06:29 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenn e meyer
Also, for the nice area folks - just say Petit family murders.
Do you think having a gun on him would have made any difference in the outcome? He was apparently taking a nap on his porch when they arrived. From the tone of many in this thread, the concept of taking a nap while unprotected by locked doors must be incomprehensible. I would think that the lesson learned here would be "Never take a nap where anyone can get to you", rather than always carry a gun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshi...vasion_murders

Quote:
Upon their arrival in the early hours of July 23, they found William Petit sleeping on a couch on the porch.[10] Komisarjevsky struck William on the head with a baseball bat found in the yard and then tied him up at gunpoint in the basement.
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Old October 4, 2016, 06:53 AM   #144
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I think my case is made pretty well in some of the examples (the father who was shot after disregarding the individuals in his yard well bending down to start a mower, the friend who looked out the window and called the police because of the armed intruder, the Petit murders). Simply having a gun would not have changed anything
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Old October 4, 2016, 08:41 AM   #145
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Lohman I think you can make the case that it might not have made a difference in any one of those cases. That is not a certainty though. If the man starting the mower had a little training and a gun he might have stopped, or at least survived the attack. Maybe Petit was awake when attacked. My point is, we don't know. The question is, having the choice of having a gun or not in these situations, why would I choose not to?
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Old October 5, 2016, 02:43 AM   #146
Pep in CA
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I wish I had K_Mac's arrangement, but I don't. Actually, I'm envious.

It makes perfect sense to me to carry a loaded handgun at all times, but for me, that is just not feasible. I live in a state and a household that shuns that idea. But as long as K_Mac understands that shooting isn't always the first or only option, K_Mac is OK with me. I hope everyone who reads this thread understands that.

Cheers, and great thread guys.
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Old October 5, 2016, 10:01 AM   #147
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You misinterpret my analysis of the Petit family. Kind of sad.

1. It was a comment on folks who say they live in a nice area and thus they don't need to take some precautions. Get it?

2. If Dr. Petit was awake, and it took him 10 seconds to get to the gun, would that have been successful. Who knows.

His being asleep is irrelevant to the issue. Yeah, if you are in the tub and Norman Bates pulls back the curtain, you are in trouble.

The point was that bad things happen in good places and if you are not unconscious, having a gun on you is a good thing rather than running around like Chicken Little.

However, it is your life and you deal with the way you want. If you think your house is impregnable and 10 seconds works, go for it.
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Old October 5, 2016, 10:09 AM   #148
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If you think your house is impregnable and 10 seconds works, go for it.
In fairness to my argument, and many of the arguments I make on here, one small bit is being lost in it.

If my attackers are competent and determined enough to overcome my "passive" defenses (and I am going to somewhat incorrectly include locked and bolted doors because they are) in less time than it takes me to get to a firearm those attackers are of such a skill and determination level that having that firearm on me is not likely to make a difference in the battle.

For instance if get into the ring with Mike Tyson at his prime it probably does not matter if I have time to on "cheater" boxing gloves that are lined with steel or not. Their existence is not going to allow me to win.

Giving competent, determined, often numbered attackers the advantage of surprise and planning is likely to allow them to overcome any defenses I (or even the three of us in my household competent with firearms) am going to put up. I would need a much higher level of security then I have now to defeat such attackers.

So I disregard the truly competent and determined attackers. I have no idea why they would be after me but if they are... well I am not likely to win regardless.

So it leaves me with the "clowns" (I don't mean those in clown masks) who are not actually competent or determined. I am comfortable that my security and response can and will defeat them.
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Old October 5, 2016, 10:27 AM   #149
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I CHL in a very comfortable rig. While not religious about it I usually have it-mainly because its comfy and doesn't bother me/forget I am wearing it.
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Old October 5, 2016, 03:35 PM   #150
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Hatches are battened down waiting on the big rain and big wind. I will be armed at all times as these events bring out the scum of the earth looking for easy picking generators and anything else they can take under the cover of darkness. The wife will also be armed and we will have 2-12 gauge loaded and ready. The next 52 hours or so should be very interesting at the least. No we can't evacuate due to the wife's job/employer.
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