The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

View Poll Results: How do you pack?
Open Carry 17 10.69%
Concealed Carry 142 89.31%
Voters: 159. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 16, 2007, 09:21 PM   #126
orionengnr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 9, 2004
Posts: 5,162
I don't have the option of OC here

When I do, I'll have to reconsider my vote.
orionengnr is offline  
Old October 16, 2007, 10:59 PM   #127
Silentarmy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 13, 2007
Location: Bountiful, Utah
Posts: 355
LOL

I must admit that I laughed audibly when I read there was an "Open Carry Forum". I guess it would be nice to go somewhere where your 18th century tactics were accepted by a few others! Having been a Range officer in the past, I know there are enough Scary Morons carrying concealed that if those same disturbed individuals were packing in plain view, it would take only months for our gun rights to dissappear! I dealt with enough Mentally unsound people as they applied for their permits that I carry concealed as much in fear that they may have actually passed and got their permits! Open carry is unnecessary and socially unacceptable. I further argue against the OC proponents that I can draw and engage from concealment with greater efficiency than you can from your cowboy rig!
__________________
"No one will Ever buy that PLASTIC gun!"
Steve Gallenson, Early 1980's
"Those Who live by the sword get Shot by those of us who don't"
"What we learn from History is that we do not learn from History!"
Silentarmy is offline  
Old October 17, 2007, 07:31 AM   #128
Al Norris
Staff
 
Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Posts: 9,655
Quote:
Open carry is ... socially unacceptable.
Thank you for proving my point.
Al Norris is offline  
Old October 17, 2007, 08:52 AM   #129
Glenn E. Meyer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,066
Dear Al:

Thanks so much for clarifying your position. It makes a lot of sense. I think that open carry should be legal. Whether one chooses to, for various reasons, is a personal choice.

I agree that laws against carry were part of the general trend to take away gun carrying and possession rights. The irony is the point I was trying to make that the shall issue movement was an incremental step to weaken those absolute bans and raise RKBA issues for the general public.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old October 17, 2007, 09:32 AM   #130
BluesBear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2004
Location: Mill Creek, Washington (The Great Pacific NorthWet)
Posts: 378
Quote:
I further argue against the OC proponents that I can draw and engage from concealment with greater efficiency than you can from your cowboy rig!
What happens when you stumble across someone like me who wears the same holster for open carry as I do for concealed with the only difference being the absense of a cover garment?
Unless you are playing the part of the offense and thus presenting a weapon first I can draw defensively just as fast if not faster than you simply due to the absense of a cover garment.

At first I took offense at your "cowboy rig" remark. But upon reflection I realized that it was such a silly remark that no one could really be offended. I guess you never saw the rig that Jeff Cooper used to wear with his famous two tone Colt Commander. And I seriously doubt you ever been to a CAS event. For if you had you wouldn't be so dang smug in your boasting. Some of those gents (and ladies) and draw and fire pretty damn fast.
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΈ, Y'all

The "Fashion Calibers" seem to come and go but when all is said and done everybody comes back to the forty-five.
(Chris Curino - Kimber Mfg. Co.)

__________________
BluesBear is offline  
Old October 17, 2007, 09:49 AM   #131
03Shadowbob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2006
Location: South Florida
Posts: 176
Yeah, I have to disagree with anyone that says he can draw from concealed just as fast or faster than he can from open carry. Concealed carry adds an additional step that does take time.
As far as open carry issues, I don't think it is tactically wise to open carry in most circumstances for reasons mentioned before this post, however I think it should be a personal decision not a government decision.
03Shadowbob is offline  
Old October 17, 2007, 01:13 PM   #132
Al Norris
Staff
 
Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Posts: 9,655
Glenn, I think we are pretty much on the same page.
Al Norris is offline  
Old October 17, 2007, 01:18 PM   #133
DougO83
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 389
Ok

I think I have to disagree with open carry being a faux pas. Some places it is fine by me. I do not agree with the moron goign around just to be obnoxious about it and stir stuff up, but it has its place, just like anything else. I do not because I live in Texas and it is illegal, but if I lived in AZ (it is legal there I believe) I certainly would carry open. I guess I have been around guns enough and carry them for work all the time that I do not really see it as an issue either way. Unfortunately, there are enough people around who are scared by a gun that it makes things hard for the rest of us.
__________________
"You can all go to hell, I'm going to Texas."
---Colonel David Crockett

Matt 6:33
DougO83 is offline  
Old October 17, 2007, 05:56 PM   #134
MyXD40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 24, 2007
Posts: 541
Quote:
Open carry is unnecessary and socially unacceptable. I further argue against the OC proponents that I can draw and engage from concealment with greater efficiency than you can from your cowboy rig!
social acceptable around my area in north Denver area, as well as south Denver, east Denver, o0 and west Denver. The area of which you live in says a lot.

AND anytime you wish to hit the range up with me one day, you conceal, I open, and I promise you that I'll hit my taret faster than you will from concealed. oh, and my hole will be in the X range, or head shot if you perfer $500 cash bet, easy win, for me


ANYWAY
the last few weeks sense I've started this post, I've been conceal carrying. No holster, just, mexican waistband-ing it? if that's what its called..between my belt and pants, right above my ass crack. It's actually quite comfortable. Sitting in the truck, walking around..my only problem is my draw. When I draw it from that position my grip on the gun is about an inch lower than where my hand should be.

..I know this becasue I was at walmart, and I wanted to see how fast I could draw from concealed, so I picked a guy by the milk and drew.. *timebomb*

^lol had to. But really..you think training more will help? Any tips? I keep drawing like that and I just can't seem to get it right..and the gun is at an angle too, which I thought would make it easier to grasp the handle..
__________________
$49.99
MyXD40 is offline  
Old October 17, 2007, 11:44 PM   #135
Ruthless4christ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2007
Location: CNY
Posts: 790
concealed

concealed, I i don't need anybody attacking me knowing I am ready for them. better they think i am an unsuspecting victim...and then get surprised.
Ruthless4christ is offline  
Old October 18, 2007, 12:12 AM   #136
Silentarmy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 13, 2007
Location: Bountiful, Utah
Posts: 355
Shadowbob and Blues bear...
My comment on Cowboy rigs VS concealed was antagonistic for a purpose. In part to illustrate that Open Carry is socially unacceptable and we no longer live in the wild west! In some instances, I also carry with only a cover garment and this is why I Boast to prove a point. There is in most cases little difference in open VS concealed carry in draw time. As All of you will have noticed and I will get few arguments here, The biggest difference is the Juvenile attitude often present with the cowboy carriers. Excuse me if I am mistaken as this attitude may just come from being, Well... a Juvenile.
MYXD... on the range challenge, Game on! I don't get to the Denver area much but should I anytime soon I will keep an eye out for " The Kid" You should be easy to spot doing burnouts in your new truck and strutting around with the Big Iron on your hip. I suggest however that you put a few thousand more rounds through that .40 as I feel my extra 15 yrs of Maturity and actual LE and Military experience gives me an unfair advantage. Your OP has been educational (as difficult as you find it to swallow) and your questions answered. I suggest some force on force training in weapon retention as an attitude such as yours will almost certainly earn you a good pistol whipping before that lightning draw and dead eye can do you any good. There are a fair amount of Boogey men in the Denver area!
__________________
"No one will Ever buy that PLASTIC gun!"
Steve Gallenson, Early 1980's
"Those Who live by the sword get Shot by those of us who don't"
"What we learn from History is that we do not learn from History!"
Silentarmy is offline  
Old October 18, 2007, 12:21 AM   #137
ghalleen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 466
Quote:
the last few weeks sense I've started this post, I've been conceal carrying. No holster, just, mexican waistband-ing it? if that's what its called..between my belt and pants, right above my ass crack. It's actually quite comfortable. Sitting in the truck, walking around..my only problem is my draw. When I draw it from that position my grip on the gun is about an inch lower than where my hand should be.
I've never tried carrying without a holster. Honestly, I don't see the point.

One of my biggest concerns is making sure my gun cannot fire accidentally, and it cannot fall free. This means I insist on using a quality holster that covers the trigger, and has some type of restraint. My favorite is a thumb strap, but a good molded holster works well, also.
ghalleen is offline  
Old October 18, 2007, 12:54 AM   #138
MyXD40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 24, 2007
Posts: 541
Quote:
I've never tried carrying without a holster. Honestly, I don't see the point.

One of my biggest concerns is making sure my gun cannot fire accidentally, and it cannot fall free. This means I insist on using a quality holster that covers the trigger, and has some type of restraint. My favorite is a thumb strap, but a good molded holster works well, also.
See I thought the same thing too. But actually my gun sits tight where I put it between my belt/pants..and every night I run a mile and a half, and the gun never falls out. Plus I guess this is where the grip safty comes in handy on my XD!
__________________
$49.99
MyXD40 is offline  
Old October 18, 2007, 01:26 AM   #139
BluesBear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2004
Location: Mill Creek, Washington (The Great Pacific NorthWet)
Posts: 378
XD, as a general rule, mexican carry, especially small of back mexican carry will never be as fast as drawing from a good holster. And since there is practically zero retention the gun will never be in exactly the same position.
Even ghetto is just as bad but at least that way the gun won't completely slip down into your personal gun free zone.
Do yourself and everyon else a favor and get a holster.
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΈ, Y'all

The "Fashion Calibers" seem to come and go but when all is said and done everybody comes back to the forty-five.
(Chris Curino - Kimber Mfg. Co.)

__________________
BluesBear is offline  
Old October 18, 2007, 01:30 AM   #140
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 22,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesBear
And since there is practically zero retention the gun will never be in exactly the same position.
Exactly. Which should come as no surprise seeing as...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyXD40
...my only problem is my draw. When I draw it from that position my grip on the gun is about an inch lower than where my hand should be.
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old October 18, 2007, 01:39 AM   #141
Silentarmy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 13, 2007
Location: Bountiful, Utah
Posts: 355
Off topic But I have compiled quite a collection of "more than just a little bit out of control" posts as well as Pics that XD has posted of himself and am taking the liberty of forwarding same to several Denver area LE agencies in hopes of saving them the possible embarassment and Civil Liabilities that would certainly be invovled if this Cadet is placed on the street in postion of authority. A recent back injury has given me an obscene amount of spare time and I feel it is the reponsible thing to do. If one is to post Nonsense and Idiocy on a public forum, it would be best not to include Photo ID.
__________________
"No one will Ever buy that PLASTIC gun!"
Steve Gallenson, Early 1980's
"Those Who live by the sword get Shot by those of us who don't"
"What we learn from History is that we do not learn from History!"
Silentarmy is offline  
Old October 18, 2007, 01:41 AM   #142
Justme
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 6, 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,066
Since the "crack of your ass" is exactly where there is a beltloop on most paints I don't believe you carry a gun there between your belt and your pants. I also don't believe you jog with a gun in "mexico carry" mode without it landing on the sidewalk or wherever you are jogging. You are either lying about how you carry or lying about jogging.

Finally anyone who says, "$500 cash bet, easy win, for me" is clearly a novice. There is always someone faster and more accurate and the quickest way to find them is to have money on the outcome.

Essentially I am saying you made this stuff up and are an immature person who hasn't been around firearms very much.
Justme is offline  
Old October 18, 2007, 01:46 AM   #143
BluesBear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2004
Location: Mill Creek, Washington (The Great Pacific NorthWet)
Posts: 378
SilentArmy, insulting people you don't know anything about while boasting of your abilities does absolutely nothing to make your sermon more entertaining. In fact such personal attacks and goundless insults are the tactics of a person with weak logic.

You're not the only one on here with valid life experiences. And classifying someone as a cowboy and a juvenile simply because they lawfully open carry is insulting and only adds to the noise.
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΈ, Y'all

The "Fashion Calibers" seem to come and go but when all is said and done everybody comes back to the forty-five.
(Chris Curino - Kimber Mfg. Co.)

__________________
BluesBear is offline  
Old October 18, 2007, 01:47 AM   #144
MyXD40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 24, 2007
Posts: 541
Quote:
Off topic But I have compiled quite a collection of "more than just a little bit out of control" posts as well as Pics that XD has posted of himself and am taking the liberty of forwarding same to several Denver area LE agencies in hopes of saving them the possible embarassment and Civil Liabilities that would certainly be invovled if this Cadet is placed on the street in postion of authority. A recent back injury has given me an obscene amount of spare time and I feel it is the reponsible thing to do. If one is to post Nonsense and Idiocy on a public forum, it would be best not to include Photo ID.
Nice job. Let me know how this turns out for ya.
__________________
$49.99
MyXD40 is offline  
Old October 18, 2007, 01:51 AM   #145
MyXD40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 24, 2007
Posts: 541
Quote:
Since the "crack of your ass" is exactly where there is a beltloop on most paints I don't believe you carry a gun there between your belt and your pants. I also don't believe you jog with a gun in "mexico carry" mode without it landing on the sidewalk or wherever you are jogging. You are either lying about how you carry or lying about jogging.

Finally anyone who says, "$500 cash bet, easy win, for me" is clearly a novice. There is always someone faster and more accurate and the quickest way to find them is to have money on the outcome.

Essentially I am saying you made this stuff up and are an immature person who hasn't been around firearms very much.
I'll be sure to take a picture for you tomorrow. Just so happens, my belt is tight enough when my gun is placed in that position, to keep it held there. And the belt loop is only how wide? The barrel of the gun sits to the left of that belt loop, and the trigger guard is pressed up against the belt loop. Sorry but you don't happen to know everything. Just to make you look like a fool as well, I'll not only take pictures, but I'll see if I can upload some videos.

And the $500 comment, clearly you lack the smarts to understand that means, uhh hello, open carry is easier/faster to draw from than concealed. It was to prove a point that I know that it's a true fact. ..some people....
__________________
$49.99
MyXD40 is offline  
Old October 18, 2007, 02:07 AM   #146
BluesBear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2004
Location: Mill Creek, Washington (The Great Pacific NorthWet)
Posts: 378
Well XD at least he didn't make a foolish $500 bet against a person he knows nothing about regarding hitting a target at an unspecified distance, call a pistol grip a "handle" or boast about "drawing" on someone shopping INSIDE a Wal-Mart.

Personally, I stopped believing anything you said after the "my gun sits tight where I put it between my belt/pants..and every night I run a mile and a half, and the gun never falls out" hogwash. :barf:
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΈ, Y'all

The "Fashion Calibers" seem to come and go but when all is said and done everybody comes back to the forty-five.
(Chris Curino - Kimber Mfg. Co.)

__________________
BluesBear is offline  
Old October 18, 2007, 02:07 AM   #147
Silentarmy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 13, 2007
Location: Bountiful, Utah
Posts: 355
Quote:
Open carry is unnecessary and socially unacceptable. I further argue against the OC proponents that I can draw and engage from concealment with greater efficiency than you can from your cowboy rig

Point missed entirely Bluesbear... While I do not believe that one should not be able to carry openly, I concede that it is generally unacceptable in todays society and the general populace armed or otherwise should not be made to fear as a result of Kids wearing their Egos ina holster on their belt! I do not boast superior skills in drawing from concealment but I do train as I carry and made that statement to make a point. Which you missed.
I Yield from said pissing match so as not to be responsible for closures such as this http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=265123
__________________
"No one will Ever buy that PLASTIC gun!"
Steve Gallenson, Early 1980's
"Those Who live by the sword get Shot by those of us who don't"
"What we learn from History is that we do not learn from History!"
Silentarmy is offline  
Old October 18, 2007, 02:15 AM   #148
MyXD40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 24, 2007
Posts: 541
Quote:
Well XD at least he didn't make a foolish $500 bet against a person he knows nothing about regarding hitting a target at an unspecified distance, call a pistol grip a "handle" or boast about "drawing" on someone shopping INSIDE a Wal-Mart.
$500 bet, look at it this way "I bet a million dollars you can't hit that can 200 feet away"..should I go back to my old post, and change the $500 to $1,000,000.00?


Quote:
Personally, I stopped believing anything you said after the "my gun sits tight where I put it between my belt/pants..and every night I run a mile and a half, and the gun never falls out" hogwash.
It's true. My belt is tight, when I have the added thickness of the gun between the belt/pants. Just like putting a matress ontop of your SUV and driving down the highway..if the tie downs are tight enough, it doesn't move..right?? Some concept. Think about it, it's not hard.
__________________
$49.99
MyXD40 is offline  
Old October 18, 2007, 02:19 AM   #149
MyXD40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 24, 2007
Posts: 541
Quote:
or otherwise should not be made to fear as a result of Kids wearing their Egos ina holster on their belt!
Clearly this was for me? First off, I'm not a kid. Have my own house, own truck, money in the bank, going through a divorce, old enough I think. 2nd, if I had a huge ego, and wanted to show off with my gun in my holster, I'd carry my XD40 duo-tone. Easier to see, and people notice it more, but no, I carry my all black XD40. 3rd, I always wear black dress pants, and a nice button up shirt, tucked in. Sometimes a jacket, depending on what I feel like. So clearly, I look professional, and I take care of myself.

Sometimes, you try too hard.
__________________
$49.99
MyXD40 is offline  
Old October 18, 2007, 02:59 AM   #150
Justme
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 6, 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,066
Quote:
Have my own house, own truck, money in the bank, going through a divorce, old enough I think
How does this prove you are not a "kid"? I had all those things when I was a "kid" in my early 20s, except the divorce, that came later. In fact I was easily a "kid" until at least age 30. I am now retired at age 46 and offer this advice, start saving now by direct deposit into the mutual fund family of your choice. The key to growing up(financially) is learning to live beneath your means instead of bragging about what you can spend money on, like $500 bets with people you don't even know. PM me if you would like some "fatherly" advice about having enough money to retire at age 46. For a start if helps if your house is small enough to be paid off before you retire(mine is).

You will find jogging easier without a tight belt on. I don't know anyone who runs a mile and a half a day in dress pants with a tight belt. But then I don't know anyone who runs a mile and a half a day anyway, people who run tend to run more like 5 - 7 a day.
Justme is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10829 seconds with 9 queries