38 S&W Special CTG

DonMrT · July 24, 2011, 12:55 PM

So my grandfather recently passed away and he left me his 38 S&W Special CTG, but I know nothing about it. I was wondering if anyone could help me find some information about it. What I know about it is listed below.

On the barrel it says 38 S&W Special CTG on one side and on the other it says Smith & Wesson.

On the top of the barrel it says Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass U.S.A.
Patented Feb. 6. 06. Sept.14.09 Dec. 29. 14

On the frame of the gun it has the S&W Trade mark and made in USA on other side

The handle is made out of wood with a silver colored S&W emblem

On the butt of the gun it has the numbers 412738 and these same numbers are repeated on the inside of the gun.

If you need any more information just let me know and I will try to post it as soon as possible. Thanks a lot for the help.

hivel37 · July 24, 2011, 05:46 PM

Open the cylinder. If it is a modeled number, it will be on the frame. For example, MOD. 36 or maybe MOD. 36-2

http://smith-wessonforum.com/

These guys are very knowledgeable. A picture is helpful.

DonMrT · July 24, 2011, 06:04 PM

I opened it and the number there was the same as the number on the butt of the gun

Jim Watson · July 24, 2011, 06:53 PM

CTG is the secret code for "cartridge."

It is a .38 Hand Ejector Military & Police, 4th Change, made sometime between 1915 and 1942. Probably in the last half of that period because it lacks the 1901 patent date. Maybe somebody will come along with the year made.

If in good sound condition it will shoot standard velocity .38 Specials just fine. I would not pound an old gun with +P ammunition.

It has the old style hammer block which is not foolproof; S&W revised the design in 1945 when a sailor dropped one on a steel deck and it went off and shot him. Might be best to load with 5 and keep an empty chamber under the hammer, except maybe for range exercises when you are going to load and shoot immediately.

DonMrT · July 24, 2011, 08:09 PM

ok cool thanks a lot. If it is in good condition what do you think it would go for? Also you said that the rounds it should use is .38? Sorry I am really new to the gun scene so I am not up on the language yet.

**Mike Irwin** · July 24, 2011, 09:32 PM

Exact year made is guesswork. S&W didn't really keep decent production records for the Military & Police through the 1920s and 1930s.

It's very possible that the frame was made in the late 1920s when the factory was running virtually non stop.

Until the depression hit, and sales went through the basement.

S&W sat on huge stocks of parts right through the Depression, and didn't get rid of a lot of them until they ramped up production for the British in World War II.

James K · July 24, 2011, 09:40 PM

About the closest I can come on a date is sometime in the early 1920's.

I used Pate's book on WWII handguns and he gives some earlier contract info with numbers. 50 guns in the 346436 range were bought for the 1920 Olympic games. 1000 guns in the range 6245xx-6246xx were bought for the USMC in 1932. So 412xxx should be closer to 346xxx than to 624xxx.

But, as Mike says, things are not always neat in trying to figure out serial numbering vs dates of manufacture.

Jim

DonMrT · July 24, 2011, 11:25 PM

thanks a lot everyone for the help I am going to try and post a picture by tonight so you guys can see what it looks like

DonMrT · July 24, 2011, 11:44 PM

I hope these images help let me know if I need to take better pictures

**Mike Irwin** · July 25, 2011, 06:00 AM

OK, that does appear to be an earlier one. It has a mushroom head ejector rod so it very likely was made in the 1920s. I'm not sure when the ejector rod head was changed to the fat sleeve, but I think that was sometime late in the 1920s or early 1930s on the .38 Military and Police Hand Ejector.

DonMrT · July 25, 2011, 01:34 PM

ok perfect thank you so much for the help!

Jim Watson · July 25, 2011, 05:52 PM

Wow, one of them there rare lefthanded Smith and Westerns.
Just joshing, I didn't know you could flip a digital picture without trying hard.

The picture is a little dull, I can't tell the finish.
Are the hammer and trigger smooth blue like the rest of the gun or kind of blotchy, which is color case hardening?
(If they are blue like the rest of the gun, it has been refinished.)

armsmaster270 · July 25, 2011, 05:59 PM

Same model I got from my dad. It has S/N 4308XX has a black finish and lots of holster wear,

DonMrT · July 25, 2011, 06:53 PM

"Wow, one of them there rare lefthanded Smith and Westerns.
Just joshing, I didn't know you could flip a digital picture without trying hard.

The picture is a little dull, I can't tell the finish.
Are the hammer and trigger smooth blue like the rest of the gun or kind of blotchy, which is color case hardening?
(If they are blue like the rest of the gun, it has been refinished.) "

It is funny that you say that I actually didn't flip the picture it was just taken with a mac book camera which doesn't take the best photos. The finish is a metalic black color not really blue. Just looks blue due to the poor quality of the camera. I will try to get a better camera and take a better picture. Also, the whole gun is the same color. The trigger and the hammer are somewhat blotchy now that you mention it though.

July 24, 2011, 12:55 PM	#1
DonMrT Junior Member Join Date: July 24, 2011 Posts: 7	38 S&W Special CTG So my grandfather recently passed away and he left me his 38 S&W Special CTG, but I know nothing about it. I was wondering if anyone could help me find some information about it. What I know about it is listed below. On the barrel it says 38 S&W Special CTG on one side and on the other it says Smith & Wesson. On the top of the barrel it says Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass U.S.A. Patented Feb. 6. 06. Sept.14.09 Dec. 29. 14 On the frame of the gun it has the S&W Trade mark and made in USA on other side The handle is made out of wood with a silver colored S&W emblem On the butt of the gun it has the numbers 412738 and these same numbers are repeated on the inside of the gun. If you need any more information just let me know and I will try to post it as soon as possible. Thanks a lot for the help.

July 24, 2011, 09:32 PM	#6
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Exact year made is guesswork. S&W didn't really keep decent production records for the Military & Police through the 1920s and 1930s. It's very possible that the frame was made in the late 1920s when the factory was running virtually non stop. Until the depression hit, and sales went through the basement. S&W sat on huge stocks of parts right through the Depression, and didn't get rid of a lot of them until they ramped up production for the British in World War II. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 24, 2011, 09:40 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	About the closest I can come on a date is sometime in the early 1920's. I used Pate's book on WWII handguns and he gives some earlier contract info with numbers. 50 guns in the 346436 range were bought for the 1920 Olympic games. 1000 guns in the range 6245xx-6246xx were bought for the USMC in 1932. So 412xxx should be closer to 346xxx than to 624xxx. But, as Mike says, things are not always neat in trying to figure out serial numbering vs dates of manufacture. Jim Last edited by James K; July 24, 2011 at 09:49 PM.

July 25, 2011, 06:00 AM	#10
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	OK, that does appear to be an earlier one. It has a mushroom head ejector rod so it very likely was made in the 1920s. I'm not sure when the ejector rod head was changed to the fat sleeve, but I think that was sometime late in the 1920s or early 1930s on the .38 Military and Police Hand Ejector. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 25, 2011, 05:59 PM	#13
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	Same model I got from my dad. It has S/N 4308XX has a black finish and lots of holster wear, __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S. Last edited by armsmaster270; July 25, 2011 at 06:08 PM.

July 24, 2011, 05:46 PM	#2
hivel37 Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2004 Location: Hill Country Posts: 522	Open the cylinder. If it is a modeled number, it will be on the frame. For example, MOD. 36 or maybe MOD. 36-2 http://smith-wessonforum.com/ These guys are very knowledgeable. A picture is helpful.

July 24, 2011, 06:04 PM	#3
DonMrT Junior Member Join Date: July 24, 2011 Posts: 7	I opened it and the number there was the same as the number on the butt of the gun

July 24, 2011, 06:53 PM	#4
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	CTG is the secret code for "cartridge." It is a .38 Hand Ejector Military & Police, 4th Change, made sometime between 1915 and 1942. Probably in the last half of that period because it lacks the 1901 patent date. Maybe somebody will come along with the year made. If in good sound condition it will shoot standard velocity .38 Specials just fine. I would not pound an old gun with +P ammunition. It has the old style hammer block which is not foolproof; S&W revised the design in 1945 when a sailor dropped one on a steel deck and it went off and shot him. Might be best to load with 5 and keep an empty chamber under the hammer, except maybe for range exercises when you are going to load and shoot immediately.

July 24, 2011, 08:09 PM	#5
DonMrT Junior Member Join Date: July 24, 2011 Posts: 7	ok cool thanks a lot. If it is in good condition what do you think it would go for? Also you said that the rounds it should use is .38? Sorry I am really new to the gun scene so I am not up on the language yet.

July 24, 2011, 11:25 PM	#8
DonMrT Junior Member Join Date: July 24, 2011 Posts: 7	thanks a lot everyone for the help I am going to try and post a picture by tonight so you guys can see what it looks like

July 24, 2011, 11:44 PM	#9
DonMrT Junior Member Join Date: July 24, 2011 Posts: 7	I hope these images help let me know if I need to take better pictures

July 25, 2011, 01:34 PM	#11
DonMrT Junior Member Join Date: July 24, 2011 Posts: 7	ok perfect thank you so much for the help!

July 25, 2011, 05:52 PM	#12
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Wow, one of them there rare lefthanded Smith and Westerns. Just joshing, I didn't know you could flip a digital picture without trying hard. The picture is a little dull, I can't tell the finish. Are the hammer and trigger smooth blue like the rest of the gun or kind of blotchy, which is color case hardening? (If they are blue like the rest of the gun, it has been refinished.)

July 25, 2011, 06:53 PM	#14
DonMrT Junior Member Join Date: July 24, 2011 Posts: 7	"Wow, one of them there rare lefthanded Smith and Westerns. Just joshing, I didn't know you could flip a digital picture without trying hard. The picture is a little dull, I can't tell the finish. Are the hammer and trigger smooth blue like the rest of the gun or kind of blotchy, which is color case hardening? (If they are blue like the rest of the gun, it has been refinished.) " It is funny that you say that I actually didn't flip the picture it was just taken with a mac book camera which doesn't take the best photos. The finish is a metalic black color not really blue. Just looks blue due to the poor quality of the camera. I will try to get a better camera and take a better picture. Also, the whole gun is the same color. The trigger and the hammer are somewhat blotchy now that you mention it though.

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