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April 17, 2017, 10:06 AM
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#1 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: February 17, 2009
Posts: 1,089
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16" 9x19 AR15 Carbine Chrono Test.... 77 different 9x19 OEM rounds chronographed.
NOTE : the rounds with the ............ lines are just ones I am waiting to be delivered, so that data will follow later.
As always... YMMV... so please view my carbines data as just my results... the same barrel, under the same conditions, so as to eliminate variables, .... your carbine might be faster or slower slightly. I want to make sure everyone realizes my results are from a Colt Pattern Carbine, with a mag block insert..... any feeding issues might not happen in a Glock Pattern, or a designed from the ground up 9x19 carbine ( Beretta, Sig .. etc.. ) So take the feeding issues with a grain of salt. I realize most people are not really concerned with the velocity of various 9x19 rounds... but ...My goal was to see what will run in my carbine, what the velocities were , and "guesstimating" what the added velocity would do to the various JHP, Bonded HP's, Copper HP's etc.... ( You have to start somewhere... ) A good example would be the Fed. XM9001.... that older design bullet already penetrates to a shallow depth.. and the added velocity will probably make its penetration depth less... kinda acting like a "varmint" 9mm round. I also know there are various other sites with very helpful info ( BBTI ) ... but, some of their data is kind of dated, and does not include the newest rounds. Weather.....68 degrees, slightly overcast, chronograph was 12 feet from the muzzle. 18rds of each 9x19 ammo was chronographed... The reason being, I am going to later conduct a 32rd mag test concerning reliability / feeding and accuracy test... I will include the FTF and FTE , etc from this round of testing. My "standard" for velocity checks, is GECO Swiss 124gr... I have found it to be very consistent and accurate... so I used it every hour to spot check velocity. Just to make sure the sun or "murphy's law " wasn't skewing chronograph results. Rifle info.... PSA 16" 9MM Colt Pattern Hybrid, 1n10 twist, Lantac Muzzle Brake, ALG ACT trigger with JP Springs, 6.75oz Buffer, Tubbs .308 variable power spring. Competition Electronics ProChrono Pal Chronograph was used.... General observations... Not all 9mm is created equal... I observed numerous nasty bullet setbacks.. Photos will follow later... but it was obvious some brands use better QC and neck tensions / crimp pressure.... ( Remember YMMV ) Only one 9mm OEM round would not cycle consistently, it should be noted that almost very other FMJ bullet fed perfectly in my carbine, but not the axxTech 115gr FMJ ... and it was VERY low velocity as well ( compared to same weight ammo ) perhaps the low velocity contributed to the feed issues..... While some of the ammo was expensive, those same rounds were very impressive in function.. I have to say Buffalo Bore ammo was 100% reliable....even while using the same bullet ( Barnes X bullet ) that other manufacturers rounds had trouble with. I expected some JHP's to choke while feeding, simply because of the HP's profile and the less then perfect feed ramps of a Colt pattern carbine.... and some did.... consistently across the weights. That is NOT to say it is bad ammo... just not a good choice in my AR15 Colt pattern 9MM... that same ammo might feed perfectly in a Sig MPX... Or a Glock Pattern AR....or such. As we all know... a blowback 9mm carbine can get filthy quickly, and some ammo burns very clean... while some burns filthy. If you are running a suppressor..... I strongly suggest you use the cleanest burning, fully coated / "sealed" bullet.... I was just starting to have issues with chambering at the end of the day.. from the gunk that had accumulated. There was no noticeable effect on velocities... just function got sluggish. Onward to the velocity results.... ( accuracy and 32rd reliability tests will be part 2 ) Last edited by bfoosh006; April 19, 2017 at 09:06 PM. |
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April 17, 2017, 10:07 AM
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#2 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: February 17, 2009
Posts: 1,089
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115gr and below...
Polycase, 65gr Interceptor.................................................................................................. Polycase, 65gr Interceptor RNP........................................................................................... Ruger, +P 80gr ARX............................................................................................................ Buffalo Bore, +P+ 95gr Barnes TAC-XP..........1880fps, very consistent, Low ES LeHigh Defense, +P 90gr Extreme Defense... 1773fps, no issues. Magtech, 95gr JSP............................................................................................................... Hornady, 100gr Lite, Flextip................................................................................................... Aguila, 115gr FMJ......................................1360fps, low ES Aguila, +P 115gr FMJ.................................1418fps Armscor, 115gr FMJ...................................1200fps, very smooth shooting. Barnes, +P 115gr XTAC...............................1303fps ...4 FTF Blazer, 115gr FMJ.......................................1335fps Brown Bear, 115gr FMJ ..............................1398fps... the gunky chamber didn't like the Lacquered case Browning, 115gr FMJ...................................1392 Buffalo Bore, +P+ 115gr Barnes TAC-XP .....1505fps, very low ES, so much so that it was noticeable , very consistent feeling. Colt SCHP, 115gr Solid Copper HP...............1360fps.... dismal feeding.. 8 FTF... no setback though Estate, 115gr FMJ........................................................................................................................................................... Federal, 115gr FMJ Aluminum cased, .........1326fps... 4 NASTY bullet setbacks resulting in FTF Federal, 115gr JHP, XM9001.......................1532fps Federal 115gr SynTech...............................1362fps....3 FTF... found a chunk of the "Poly" jacket in the rifle cleanup Federal, +P+ 115gr JHP 9BPLE............................................................................................................................................. Federal, 115gr JHP 9BP......................................................................................................................................................... Federal, 115gr FMJ AE.......................................................................................................................................................... Federal, 115gr FMJ "Champion"............................................................................................................................................. Fiocchi, 115gr HP................................................................................................................................................................. Fiocchi, 115gr FMJ............................................................................................................................................................... Herters, 115gr "Total Nylon Jacket"...................................................................................................................................... Hornady, 115gr C. Defense FTX...................1340fps HotShot, 115gr FMJ............................................................................................................................................................ GECO, 115gr FMJ, German made................1334fps IMI, 115gr FMJ..........................................1427fps, very low ES, clean IMI 115gr Di-Cut.................................................................................................................................................................. Independence, 115gr FMJ..........................1305fps... 60 ES Magtech, 115gr FMJ..................................1371fps Magtech, +P+ 115gr JHP.................................................................................................................................................. MaxxTech, 115gr FMJ................................1198fps, for a FMJ bullet..numerous FTF, underpowered part of the issue ? PMC, 115gr FMJ........................................1287fps PPU, 115gr FMJ.........................................1363fps, NASTY setback in 9rds ( worst of all the setbacks ) This is the ammo that made me realize "not all ammo is equal" PPU, 115gr FMJ NATO....................................................................................................................................................... Sellier & Bellot, 115gr FMJ.........................1340, large ES 102, smelled odd ?! Sellier & Bellot, 115gr JHP.........................1370fps.... 5 FTF, 2 with setback Sig Sauer, 115gr FMJ.................................1498fps Sig Sauer, 115gr JHP V-Crown....................1462fps... NASTY setback... AGAIN, setback in my Carbine YMMV !!! Silver Bear, 115gr .....................................1525fps Speer, 115gr GD................................................................................................................................................................. Speer, 115gr TMJ.......................................1396fps Speer, +P 115gr TMJ.......................................................................................................................................................... Speer, +P+ 115gr GD......................................................................................................................................................... Winc., 115gr FMJ.......................................1370fps Winc., 115gr FMJ "Forged" Wolf, 115gr FMJ Military Classic.......................................................................................................................................... Wolf, 115gr FMJ Polyperformance..............1530fps... 1st lot #,... tested twice because of the high velocities Wolf, 115gr FMJ Polyperformance..............1410fps... 2nd different lot #,... also tested twice because of the very different lots. Last edited by bfoosh006; April 19, 2017 at 09:07 PM. |
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April 17, 2017, 10:08 AM
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#3 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: February 17, 2009
Posts: 1,089
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124gr
Aguila, 124gr FMJ.................................1280fps Armscor, 124gr FMJ Armscor, 124gr JHP Atomic, +P 124gr JHP, Match....................................................................................................................................... Buffalo Bore, +P 124gr JHP...................1470fps Century, 124gr FMJ....................................................................................................................................................... Colt 124gr JHP, by Double Tap..............1332fps , 3 FTF , 3 setback of the setbacks single loaded and fired.. 1419fps Colt NM 124gr FMJ................................1280fps Federal, 124gr HST...................................1335fps.. oddly a little smokey Federal, +P 124gr HST..............................1422fps Federal,124gr FMJ AE................................1287fps Federal, 124gr "Suppressor"........................................................................................................................................... Fiocchi, 124gr JHP.......................................................................................................................................................... Fiocchi, 124gr Truncated Cone........................................................................................................................................ Hornady, 125gr FMJ, Steel Match.................................................................................................................................... Hornady, +P 124gr TAP FPD.....................1378fps, 2 FTF, no bullet setback GECO, 124gr FMJ Hungarian.....................1242fps GECO, 124gr Copper Clad Steel Jacket, Swiss.... 1248fps... 8 ES Independence, 124gr FMJ................................................................................................................................................ IMI 124gr FMJ.........................................1325fps Magtech, 124gr Bonded JHP.................1392fps MagTech, 124gr FMJ............................1328, very Low ES MEN 124gr FMJ....................................1310fps PMC 124gr Starfire...............................1235fps, Honestly , I thought this would not feed... but it was perfect... soft shooting. PMC, 124gr FMJ ...................................1195fps Remington, +P 124gr BlackBelt GS........1398fps... 1 FTF, no setback Remington, +P 124gr GS.......................1395fps... Perfect Sellier & Belliot, 124gr FMJ, Gov. Contract RUAG........................................................................................................................ Sellier & Belliot, 124gr FMJ...................1280fps Sellier & Belliot, 124gr Soft Point...........1290fps Sig Sauer, 124gr JHP V-Crown..............1430fps... nasty setback 5rds.. 5FTF.. didn't like my Colt pattern feed lips. Speer +P 124gr GD..............................1458fps Speer 124gr GD...................................1376fps Speer 124gr TMJ .................................1304fps Winchester 124gr FMJ NATO................1340fps Last edited by bfoosh006; April 19, 2017 at 09:08 PM. |
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April 17, 2017, 10:09 AM
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#4 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: February 17, 2009
Posts: 1,089
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135gr, 147gr, and 158gr
Federal, +P 135gr Tactical Bonded HP......1345fps.... Hornady, 135gr Critical Duty Flexlock......1130fps, very low ES 14 Hornady, +P 135gr Critical Duty, Flex. ....1225fps.. ES 18 Sellier & Bellot, 140gr FMJ.................................................................................................................................... Aguila, 147gr FMJ................................................................................................................................................. AYSM, 147gr "Match"..............................998fps.... Browning, 147gr X Point.........................1122fps... 2 FTF... no bullet setback Browning, 147gr FMJ..............................1168fps... smooth as a sewing machine...and clean burning Federal, +P 147gr HST..........................1182fps Federal, 147gr JHP "9MS".......................1132fps Fiocchi, 147gr FMJ....................................................................................................................................................... Magtech, 147gr JHP...............................1195fps... High ES 98 Magtech, 147gr FMJ..................................................................................................................................................... Remington, 147gr FMJ............................1144fps.... slightly odd bullet profile, but no issues. Sig Sauer, 147gr FMJ.................................................................................................................................................... Sig Sauer, 147gr V-Crown.......................1165fps, 11rds FTF, nasty bullet setback... I am confident the V-Crown ( Sierra ) bullet is a GREAT design... but it just didn't feed in my carbine. Silver Bear, 145gr JHP............................1052fps, 3 FTF.. no bullet setback Speer 147gr GD ( 1st Gen ).....................1184fps... 5 FTF... no bullet setback... Speer, 147gr TMJ......................................................................................................................................................... Winc. 147gr FMJ Train & Defend..............1107fps.... very accurate, very clean burning, and very smooth running... My favorite carbine ammo. Hands down. Winc. 147gr Bonded JHP ........................1167fps Winc. 147gr FMJ, White Box.......................................................................................................................................... Winc. 147gr, JHP, White Box.......................................................................................................................................... Wolf, 147gr JHP, "Gold"................................................................................................................................................. Fiocchi, 158gr FMJ........................................................................................................................................................ IMI, 158gr FMJ.......................................1018fps.... low ES 16 PPU, 158gr FMJ......................................1005fps Last edited by bfoosh006; April 19, 2017 at 09:10 PM. |
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April 17, 2017, 11:04 AM
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#5 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: September 28, 2008
Posts: 10,442
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bfoosh,
Thanks for doing all that work. Very interesting results for sure, especially with the increasing popularity of pistol caliber carbines. Look forward to your next tests.
__________________
Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.” |
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April 17, 2017, 09:59 PM
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#6 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: February 17, 2009
Posts: 1,089
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bump... added 135gr, 147gr, and 158gr
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April 18, 2017, 05:14 PM
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#7 |
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Member
Join Date: May 19, 2016
Posts: 41
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Great post! Been wanting to do something similar for a while, something has always come up,your effort is appreciated.
Cam |
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April 18, 2017, 05:22 PM
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#8 |
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Junior member
Join Date: October 20, 2012
Posts: 5,854
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What is the effective range? I hear 100 yards is max for a 9mm carbine.
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April 18, 2017, 05:50 PM
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#9 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: October 21, 1998
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 4,307
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Thanks for the large cache of data.
 I have been able to hold 10 out of 10 shots on a 10" steel plate out to 200 yards with a 4x optic shooting 124HPs at 1300 fps. Have not tried others past 100 yards yet. |
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April 19, 2017, 01:00 AM
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#10 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: February 17, 2009
Posts: 1,089
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"What is the effective range? I hear 100 yards is max for a 9mm carbine. "
That is about true. IMHO... the 9x19 carbine can help bridge the pistol / 5.56 effective range gap. ( in other words, just another tool to use effectively )... with improved accuracy over a pistol. Without running a ballistic app on every round... I will say ( at best ) you would need to have a high BC bullet , retaining velocity out to 125ish yards... but you would want to choose that round wisely. I can readily hit 100yd 6" bullseye's with just my 3 MOA red dot. With considerably less recoil and blast then a 5.56....making it considerably easier to make follow up shots. Ironically I bought a Lantac muzzle brake for it... it turned out to be useless on the 16" barrel... .. just not enough gas to make use of the brake. It might do better on a 10.5 or less. So I think there is a place for a 9x19 carbine. And its heavier bullet weights within 100yds. Just food for thought EDIT... after thinking about this... I would think the 300BK would also have its place somewhere in the "effective" range idea as well. I kinda think to much emphasis is put on the "subsonic" aspect of the 300BK... ( No Offense to anyone ) But a good 110gr -135g in a 300BK would fit in nicely, but it will have more blast and bark. ( as well as more expensive ammo ) Maybe .... I need a 300BK after all ! Last edited by bfoosh006; April 19, 2017 at 01:32 AM. |
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April 19, 2017, 01:06 AM
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#11 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: February 17, 2009
Posts: 1,089
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"Thanks for the large cache of data. "
I will be adding more later, including more older rounds... IE Win. Silvertip 115gr , 127gr +P+, Fed 115gr +P+... a variety of ammo bought over the decades...Etc. If anyone is interested in my 5.56 / .223 data ( which I also have about 60 more rounds to add ) .. it is over here... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/67...20-Rifle-.html |
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April 19, 2017, 06:56 AM
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#12 |
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Junior member
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 6,846
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What are you calling "setback"? Is this bullets pushed deeper into the case? If so, you have some feeding issues that need correction as bullets forced deeper into the case cause significantly increased pressures in most cases(especially the 9mm). Just my opinion.
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April 19, 2017, 08:17 AM
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#13 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: February 17, 2009
Posts: 1,089
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PPU 115gr .... and yes a Colt Pattern should feed "decent" , and it most certainly should feed FMJ... so that is why I pointed out the various rounds that had any issues...just reporting the issue at hand.
I have fired many 100's of other FMJ's trouble free... MEN, Remington, GECO, Winc., Browning... so I know the carbine will feed properly, as long as the ammo is assembled well. And that is what I meant by .. "Not all 9mm is created equal... I observed numerous nasty bullet setbacks.. Photos will follow later... but it was obvious some brands use better QC and neck tensions / crimp pressure.... ( Remember YMMV ) " I suspect a little better crimp, from the factory, would help the rounds like this. Bullet setback examples... IMHO... it worries me that some economy FMJ rounds would setback so "easily". PPU 115gr FMJ  115gr Fed. Aluminum case...  Colt 124gr SCHP  Remington 124gr GS  And the SIG Sauer V-Crown's... Just to large of a HP to feed properly, the 147gr was a dismal feeder...  Federal 115gr Syntech... 
Last edited by bfoosh006; April 19, 2017 at 09:19 AM. |
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April 19, 2017, 09:45 AM
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#14 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: October 3, 2012
Posts: 1,229
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I see that most of your bullets that are setback have damage on the nose, so I assume they are tip up jams, where the bullet jams into the top of the chamber.
I have 2 CMMG MK9 9mm ARs, the pistol, and the carbine. They are Colt pattern. What I have found is after polishing the feed ramp, and bottom of the bolt to a mirror finish, the only rounds that feed with 100% reliability are round nose. That has been Blazer Brass 124, and Remington Golden Saber 124+P. I have tried several other bullet profiles, and had issues with them. They don't like flat nosed bullets, or truncated cones like Gold Dots, or Critical Defense/Duty. That big bolt, shoving the cartridge into the top of the chamber, will set the bullet deep into the case. I have seen the exact same thing with mine when they jam like that. Thanks for the effort to compile, and post all this info. It should be a STICKY |
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April 19, 2017, 09:11 PM
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#15 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: February 17, 2009
Posts: 1,089
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In a week or so, I will enter the others.
Thanks or the moral support, guys ! |
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May 9, 2017, 02:44 PM
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#16 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: February 17, 2009
Posts: 1,089
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Rounds added 7th May.
115gr and below... Polycase, 65gr Interceptor....................................1940fps, smelled like burning plastic slightly Polycase, 65gr Interceptor RNP............................1844fps, smelled like burning plastic slightly Ruger, +P 80gr ARX..............................................1689fps, very low ES 12, smelled like burning plastic slightly Magtech, 95gr JSP................................................1694fps Hornady, 100gr Lite, Flextip...................................1326fps, 2 bullet setbacks Estate, 115gr FMJ..................................................1310fps Federal, +P+ 115gr JHP 9BPLE...........................1640fps, very smooth running and feeding Federal, 115gr JHP 9BP.......................................1363fps, very smooth running and feeding Federal, 115gr FMJ AE.........................................1324fps Federal, 115gr FMJ "Champion"..........................1340fps, oddly, softer recoil then the above AE Fiocchi, 115gr HP.................................................1458fps Fiocchi, 115gr FMJ...............................................1316fps, large ES 88 Herters, 115gr "Total Nylon Jacket"......................1340fps, large ES 88 HotShot, 115gr FMJ..............................................1372fps IMI 115gr Di-Cut....................................................1352fps Magtech, +P+ 115gr JHP......................................1640fps, very fast 115gr PPU, 115gr FMJ NATO..........................................1448fps Speer, 115gr GD....................................................1525fps, ordered another box.. surprisingly fast. ... and tested twice at different hours. Speer, +P 115gr TMJ.............................................1382fps Speer, +P+ 115gr GD.............................................1596fps, given the "standard" pressure loads velocity, I was surprised this wasn't faster. Wolf, 115gr FMJ Military Classic.............................1352fps |
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May 9, 2017, 02:45 PM
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#17 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: February 17, 2009
Posts: 1,089
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Rounds added 7th May.
124gr Atomic, +P 124gr JHP, Match.......................................................1565fps Federal, 124gr "Suppressor"........................................................1145fps Fiocchi, 124gr JHP........................................................................1377fps Fiocchi, 124gr Truncated Cone......................................................1292fps Hornady, 125gr FMJ, Steel Match.................................................1258fps Independence, 124gr FMJ.............................................................1325fps Sellier & Belliot, 124gr FMJ, Gov. Contract RUAG.........................1201fps |
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May 9, 2017, 02:46 PM
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#18 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: February 17, 2009
Posts: 1,089
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Rounds added 7th May.
147gr and above. Aguila, 147gr FMJ......................................1140fps Fiocchi, 147gr FMJ.....................................1078fps Magtech, 147gr FMJ...................................1090fps Sig Sauer, 147gr FMJ..................................1248fps Speer, 147gr TMJ.......................................1182fps Winc. 147gr FMJ, White Box.......................1098fps Winc. 147gr, JHP, White Box......................1146fps Wolf, 147gr JHP, "Gold"...............................970-1109.... huge ES, throughout the string Fiocchi, 158gr FMJ........................................947fps |
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March 25, 2024, 12:17 PM
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#19 |
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Member
Join Date: March 29, 2011
Location: The Willamette Valley, in Oregon
Posts: 97
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I know this is an older thread, but even more pertinent now IMO with all the 9mm carbines that have recently been released.
Am posting to thank the author for the helpful data, but also bookmarking as I plan on contributing a small amount of data later this season. (147gr Aguila FN; 158gr PPU RN; 158gr Fiocchi RN), from my 16" S&W FPC barrel. Best regards, |
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April 3, 2024, 08:07 PM
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#20 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: February 17, 2009
Posts: 1,089
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FYI... 129 OEM 9x19 rounds chrono'd
And Thank you for the kind words. https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/-/...29025#i7429025 A bunch of older 5.56 / 223... https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Va...-56/16-676005/ And Eagle_19er's 10.5", 11.5", 12.5" and 14.5" suppressed 5.56 https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Su...NE-/16-714088/ |
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