AR - forward assist or not?

kymasabe · August 28, 2021, 10:59 PM

Joh's recent S&W deal got me wondering...I wonder how many AR owners really care about forward assist and/or dust cover? The early S&W Sports came without either, and when I build my own AR uppers, I usually use stripped Anderson slick side uppers which don't have forward assist or dust covers either. For me it's a weight thing, the upper weighs a bit less without those goodies, and I figure I'm never going to attempt to ram a cartridge into the chamber with the forward assist, so not needed in my world. But, I'd imagine there are traditionalists who gotta have them because the gun doesn't look right without it, or whatever. But real life...how many of you really want either?

Screwball · August 28, 2021, 11:24 PM

Not a big thing for me… however, I did remove and plug my Stern Defense 9mm upper. When IraqVeteran8888 did his meltdown on one, that was the part that stopped the gun. Figured it was better gone, since it didn’t function.

My M&P15-22 pistol also doesn’t have one. It’s nice, but not a huge deal. I joked with Joh about buying his, as I did want one of those uppers for my KP-15 lower… mainly due to that. I have a DoubleStar lightweight upper (does have the forward assist), but I feel that I likely could shave some more weight with that upper. And like I said, those barrels are great… I love 1:8” twist, and 5R rifling is good to go.

ed308 · August 29, 2021, 01:33 AM

I like them on my ARs, especially when hunting. You can ease the bolt down on a round then use the forward assist to seat it. A lot quieter than the usual method of charging an AR. I’ve used it on a round that didn’t go bang and needed to quietly eject and chamber a new round.

jmr40 · August 29, 2021, 05:35 AM

Neither of those are used often, but if you ever need them, you need them. It just doesn't cost that much more to have them.

Shadow9mm · August 29, 2021, 05:35 AM

Never used the forward assist. But I for sure want a dust cover

imashooter · August 29, 2021, 07:25 AM

No sand box, no jungle here. No need for either. I have 1 which has no accommodation for a cover. Deflector on opposite side of ejection port. It's a real bastard-child, very unique factory gun.

Rob228 · August 29, 2021, 07:28 AM

Both of mine have both a forward assist and a dust cover. I could deal with no forward assist but I for certain want the ejection port cover there.

Screwball · August 29, 2021, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ed308

I like them on my ARs, especially when hunting. You can ease the bolt down on a round then use the forward assist to seat it. A lot quieter than the usual method of charging an AR. I’ve used it on a round that didn’t go bang and needed to quietly eject and chamber a new round.

Next time… try pushing forward on the carrier cut that interfaces with the dust cover.

Joe-ker · August 29, 2021, 09:59 AM

I prefer to have both. Dust cover is less important tho. I like being able to ensure bolt is closed.

eflyguy · August 29, 2021, 10:13 AM

None of my other types have "dust covers" and I never bother closing mine. Seems to function just fine that way.

Same with a forward assist. Never needed, wasn't a factor when purchasing.

HOWEVER I understand the utility of both and if I was dragging my AR into the woods I'd probably have a different opinion.

stagpanther · August 29, 2021, 10:17 AM

I don't care one way or the other, I put the assist on mostly out of habit, personally I think they don't serve much purpose other than they are more likely to make a jam even worse. I'd still like a dust cover though.

rickyrick · August 29, 2021, 10:20 AM

I have one upper without forward assist.

I don’t intend to force rounds into a chamber under combat conditions. Therefore the FA and Dust covers are vestigial appendages.
If my gun doesn’t chamber completely, I’m going to just stop and see what’s wrong

**Aguila Blanca** · August 29, 2021, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kymasabe

But, I'd imagine there are traditionalists who gotta have them because the gun doesn't look right without it, or whatever.

The original, military M16 didn't have a forward assist, so a true traditionalist would be someone who does NOT want it. Makers of AR lowers eventually started offering "slickside" lowers, after years of only selling them with the forward assist, in order to appeal to the traditionalists.

The military had the forward assist added for a reason. Having carried an M16 in Vietnam, I'm not interested in one that doesn't have the forward assist.

kymasabe · August 29, 2021, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eflyguy

None of my other types have "dust covers" and I never bother closing mine. Seems to function just fine that way.

Same with a forward assist. Never needed, wasn't a factor when purchasing.

HOWEVER I understand the utility of both and if I was dragging my AR into the woods I'd probably have a different opinion.

You know, i don't think I ever closed the cover on any of my AK's for the sake of keeping debris out, just simply to put on safe. And while poking around in the safe, saw my trusty old Rem870 and Mossy500, and I have dragged that old 870 thru the woods and marsh and whatnot, never worried about a cover on that.
Thank you all for the responses, I was pretty sure I was gonna be alone in the "I don't need it" camp, is nice to see there's a mix of opinions. Thank you.

Hawg · August 29, 2021, 11:18 AM

Neither one is a must have.

101combatvet · August 29, 2021, 11:28 AM

These are features that the average hobbyist wouldn't need. After firing thousands of rounds downrange, I have never had a malfunction and certainly have never used the forward asset. The one time that you need it, you'll be sorry. The dust cover is worth keeping.

Joh · August 29, 2021, 12:00 PM

The one I got don't have a dust cover I think it's the early one. You really don't need a dust cover if you don't crawl around on the ground or in a sandy place. I just got this one for the fun of it. I did shot it a few times but I want shoot it untell spring of next year.

lunger · August 29, 2021, 12:04 PM

I have never felt a need for either, but understand why others in different situations would.

zukiphile · August 29, 2021, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

The military had the forward assist added for a reason. Having carried an M16 in Vietnam, I'm not interested in one that doesn't have the forward assist.

There was a lad in Afghanistan who was happy to have one. He was driving a semi that came under attack, but due to the ubiquitous dust his rifle didn't feed properly. He used the FA to jam each round into the chamber far enough, and used his single shot AR to get all 9 of the men whose attention he'd drawn.

I've never needed a dust cover, and a FA gets in the way of operation of the charge handle and bolt release with the right hand when in a firing position. I have several uppers with Anderson Lightweight Sport uppers, but I've not seen them for sale anywhere in a couple of years.

**44 AMP** · August 29, 2021, 01:18 PM

Quote:

There was a lad in Afghanistan who was happy to have one.

He was a VERY lucky lad. His FA actually worked. Glad he made it.

My experience with the forward assist has been just the opposite. Those few times I've actually needed it, it did not seat the round in the chamber what it did was jam the action shut so firmly that it could not be opened by hand. I had to separate the upper and lower and drive the bolt carrier rearward with a hammer (and non marring punch) didn't take a lot but it needed more than could be done by hand, alone.

Also the oval (teardrop) shape FA button on some M16A1 was a royal pain in the butt. I swear that thing will snag on every part of your web gear it gets within 3 feet of!

The Army requiring the Forward Assist was their solution to a problem caused by poor maintenance and bad ammo. They solved the problem (mostly) by quietly bringing maint training and supplies up to standard, and changes to the ammo, but "offiicially" the forward assist "solved the problem", though it actually did not.

Having grown up with semi auto rifles that had bolt handles/op rod handles that work BOTH ways, you can keep that stupid forward assist as far as I'm concerned.

As to the dust cover, I think debris cover would be a more accurate name, because as a dust cover, it fails miserably. And when you get into that fine "talcum powder" dust found in some deserts, NOTHING but a sealed plastic bag will keep the dust out, and sometimes, not even then...

Personal experience, 1976 two week field exercise in the Yakima "desert". "Tactical" in that all the gear was worn and carried, foxholes dug and guardposts manned but the guns were never used. We TAPED every opening of our M16s to seal them.

Even that didn't work. After two weeks in the dust, going "admin" rifles were untaped and you could HEAR the "crunch" of grit inside the action when you pulled the bolt back. As far as I can tell, the only place the dust cover actually keeps out dust is when the rifle is sitting in the rack in the arms room.

rickyrick · August 29, 2021, 03:29 PM

In my opinion I’d like to have a charging handle that worked both ways and I could kick or hammer into battery. I am also a long time removed from any grimy combat operation.

As a civilian now that only shoots recreationally, the other benefits of ARs outweigh the strange way to chamber a round.
I remember how weird that first M16 was: It was oddly futuristic looking for such a worn out rattly thing. Having grown up in the country, I thought the charging handle was the weirdest.
Also I had drill sergeants that had combat patches from the Vietnam war, they spread stories of soldiers dying in mass with a jammed m16 in their hands; hence the necessity of the Forward Assist.
I held on to those myths for many years.

Eventually, I realized that I had never needed the forward assist. Haven’t needed it as a civilian.
There’s probably a lot of people that needed it and used it, but not me.

No amount of anything can really keep dirt out of them in a dirty environment, aside from sealing the whole thing up.

berettaprofessor · August 29, 2021, 04:24 PM

I don't necessarily need a forward assist, but I need a deflector on right-side ejecting AR's (I'm a lefty). And I like a good dust cover to keep the grease from getting dusty.

dahermit · August 29, 2021, 04:33 PM

My AR15 (home build, M4 Copy) was built and maintained as a war-weapon waiting for a possible Civil war. A war weapon should have a forward assist and dust cover. It sits in the gun closet waiting for the Militia to be activated.

Armybrat · August 29, 2021, 07:38 PM

My early S&W Sport “Slickside” had neither. No big deal.

603Country · August 30, 2021, 07:59 AM

Like rickyrick, I remember my first look at an M16. In Boot Camp we had the M14, but when we went on to ITR at Pendleton, we were issued the M16. It didn’t look like much to me, but it was light, which I loved as we walked and ran endlessly. A couple of years ago I bought an AR15, and my hands and finger still remembered how to disassemble it. Today’s AR15 sure seems heavier than the one I had in the Marines. I suppose I could look up the original M16 weight.

As for the dust cover and Forward Assist, I suppose I’d rather have them than not.

View Poll Results: AR - Forward assist or dust cover needed?
I don't need either a forward assist or dust cover.	17	34.69%
I need a forward assist but not a dust cover.	1	2.04%
Skip the forward assist but a dust cover is a must-have.	14	28.57%
I gotta have both !	17	34.69%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

August 28, 2021, 10:59 PM	#1
kymasabe Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2005 Location: SW Florida Posts: 2,747	AR - forward assist or not? Joh's recent S&W deal got me wondering...I wonder how many AR owners really care about forward assist and/or dust cover? The early S&W Sports came without either, and when I build my own AR uppers, I usually use stripped Anderson slick side uppers which don't have forward assist or dust covers either. For me it's a weight thing, the upper weighs a bit less without those goodies, and I figure I'm never going to attempt to ram a cartridge into the chamber with the forward assist, so not needed in my world. But, I'd imagine there are traditionalists who gotta have them because the gun doesn't look right without it, or whatever. But real life...how many of you really want either? __________________ God's creatures big and small, eat them one, eat them all. Last edited by kymasabe; August 29, 2021 at 06:16 AM.

August 29, 2021, 05:35 AM	#4
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	Neither of those are used often, but if you ever need them, you need them. It just doesn't cost that much more to have them. __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

August 29, 2021, 05:35 AM	#5
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,969	Never used the forward assist. But I for sure want a dust cover __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

August 29, 2021, 09:59 AM	#9
Joe-ker Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2016 Location: North Iowa Posts: 247	I prefer to have both. Dust cover is less important tho. I like being able to ensure bolt is closed. __________________ From my cold dead hands.....

August 28, 2021, 11:24 PM	#2
Screwball Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2012 Location: ME Posts: 771	Not a big thing for me… however, I did remove and plug my Stern Defense 9mm upper. When IraqVeteran8888 did his meltdown on one, that was the part that stopped the gun. Figured it was better gone, since it didn’t function. My M&P15-22 pistol also doesn’t have one. It’s nice, but not a huge deal. I joked with Joh about buying his, as I did want one of those uppers for my KP-15 lower… mainly due to that. I have a DoubleStar lightweight upper (does have the forward assist), but I feel that I likely could shave some more weight with that upper. And like I said, those barrels are great… I love 1:8” twist, and 5R rifling is good to go.

August 29, 2021, 01:33 AM	#3
ed308 Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2016 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 1,147	I like them on my ARs, especially when hunting. You can ease the bolt down on a round then use the forward assist to seat it. A lot quieter than the usual method of charging an AR. I’ve used it on a round that didn’t go bang and needed to quietly eject and chamber a new round.

August 29, 2021, 07:25 AM	#6
imashooter Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 395	No sand box, no jungle here. No need for either. I have 1 which has no accommodation for a cover. Deflector on opposite side of ejection port. It's a real bastard-child, very unique factory gun.

August 29, 2021, 07:28 AM	#7
Rob228 Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2010 Location: Hampstead NC Posts: 1,450	Both of mine have both a forward assist and a dust cover. I could deal with no forward assist but I for certain want the ejection port cover there.

August 29, 2021, 10:13 AM	#10
eflyguy Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2021 Posts: 335	None of my other types have "dust covers" and I never bother closing mine. Seems to function just fine that way. Same with a forward assist. Never needed, wasn't a factor when purchasing. HOWEVER I understand the utility of both and if I was dragging my AR into the woods I'd probably have a different opinion.

August 29, 2021, 10:17 AM	#11
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,772	I don't care one way or the other, I put the assist on mostly out of habit, personally I think they don't serve much purpose other than they are more likely to make a jam even worse. I'd still like a dust cover though. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

August 29, 2021, 10:20 AM	#12
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,236	I have one upper without forward assist. I don’t intend to force rounds into a chamber under combat conditions. Therefore the FA and Dust covers are vestigial appendages. If my gun doesn’t chamber completely, I’m going to just stop and see what’s wrong

August 29, 2021, 11:18 AM	#15
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Neither one is a must have.

August 29, 2021, 11:28 AM	#16
101combatvet Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2011 Posts: 667	These are features that the average hobbyist wouldn't need. After firing thousands of rounds downrange, I have never had a malfunction and certainly have never used the forward asset. The one time that you need it, you'll be sorry. The dust cover is worth keeping. __________________ Special Operations Combat Veteran Gunsmith, BS, MFA, Competitive Shooter NRA Certified Firearms Instructor [9 Certifications]

August 29, 2021, 12:00 PM	#17
Joh Member Join Date: July 29, 2021 Posts: 38	The one I got don't have a dust cover I think it's the early one. You really don't need a dust cover if you don't crawl around on the ground or in a sandy place. I just got this one for the fun of it. I did shot it a few times but I want shoot it untell spring of next year.

August 29, 2021, 12:04 PM	#18
lunger Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2007 Posts: 443	I have never felt a need for either, but understand why others in different situations would.

August 29, 2021, 03:29 PM	#21
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,236	In my opinion I’d like to have a charging handle that worked both ways and I could kick or hammer into battery. I am also a long time removed from any grimy combat operation. As a civilian now that only shoots recreationally, the other benefits of ARs outweigh the strange way to chamber a round. I remember how weird that first M16 was: It was oddly futuristic looking for such a worn out rattly thing. Having grown up in the country, I thought the charging handle was the weirdest. Also I had drill sergeants that had combat patches from the Vietnam war, they spread stories of soldiers dying in mass with a jammed m16 in their hands; hence the necessity of the Forward Assist. I held on to those myths for many years. Eventually, I realized that I had never needed the forward assist. Haven’t needed it as a civilian. There’s probably a lot of people that needed it and used it, but not me. No amount of anything can really keep dirt out of them in a dirty environment, aside from sealing the whole thing up.

August 29, 2021, 04:24 PM	#22
berettaprofessor Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2008 Posts: 1,091	I don't necessarily need a forward assist, but I need a deflector on right-side ejecting AR's (I'm a lefty). And I like a good dust cover to keep the grease from getting dusty. __________________ "What most people forget is that the first country the Nazi's conquered was their own." 44AMP on thefiringline.com

August 29, 2021, 04:33 PM	#23
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	My AR15 (home build, M4 Copy) was built and maintained as a war-weapon waiting for a possible Civil war. A war weapon should have a forward assist and dust cover. It sits in the gun closet waiting for the Militia to be activated.

August 29, 2021, 07:38 PM	#24
Armybrat Senior Member Join Date: May 10, 2009 Location: Round Rock, Texas Posts: 976	My early S&W Sport “Slickside” had neither. No big deal.

August 30, 2021, 07:59 AM	#25
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Like rickyrick, I remember my first look at an M16. In Boot Camp we had the M14, but when we went on to ITR at Pendleton, we were issued the M16. It didn’t look like much to me, but it was light, which I loved as we walked and ran endlessly. A couple of years ago I bought an AR15, and my hands and finger still remembered how to disassemble it. Today’s AR15 sure seems heavier than the one I had in the Marines. I suppose I could look up the original M16 weight. As for the dust cover and Forward Assist, I suppose I’d rather have them than not.