Many new firearms these days look sloppy - Page 3

Pistoler0 · September 12, 2021, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterg7

The Golden age of US gun manufacturing was the fifties thru the early sixties, ever since we’ve been on a slow downward slide.

cheap guns were always cheaper but workmanship on the common guns was better.

Mossberg was always a second tier brand made for a price point.

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What I would say is that
"the golden age of US mass production manufacturing of ANYTHING was the 50s and 60s.

There are still US manufacturers with top world quality, but they are boutique and custom shops. As I am saying this goes for any engineered good, not just guns.

The US can't compete on mass production with other places in the world: notably asia-pacific. Our strength is in innovation and highly specialized production.

HenryT · October 29, 2021, 01:56 PM

I wouldn't say that the modern firearms are sloppy. They are just manufactured differently to safe cost. Take for example a small sidearm like the current Glock model 27, which has a plastic body, and bare minimum metal with the firing mechanism in the slide, comparing it with the all metal Walther PP, which has that distinct look and finish of the earlier era production. The difference is huge.

Maxwell Haus · October 30, 2021, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahermit

When it comes to "Penmanship", it is notable that no one writes with a pen and ink anymore and the only cursive needed in our society is one's signature. In sum, penmanship is obsolete, having been replaced with keyboarding. However, I do not know how any of that can be generalized to the subject of firearm manufacturing.

That is not true .

pete2 · October 30, 2021, 10:10 AM

Based on my experience most new guns are sloppy looking and to make things worse, they have way too many defects that have to be corrected.. Poor workman ship all way round.

TruthTellers · October 31, 2021, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HenryT

I wouldn't say that the modern firearms are sloppy. They are just manufactured differently to safe cost. Take for example a small sidearm like the current Glock model 27, which has a plastic body, and bare minimum metal with the firing mechanism in the slide, comparing it with the all metal Walther PP, which has that distinct look and finish of the earlier era production. The difference is huge.

Other than the frame being polymer vs a machined steel, the design of the slide, the striker mechanism... it was all meant to reduce machine and assembly time and to reduce weight and complexity. Does that make the Glock a "sloppy" pistol compared to the PP? No, just one that doesn't give snobs the good vibrations from owning a pistol that has a distinct look and steel frame.

In regards to the topic, I feel we've reached the climax for semi auto pistols in terms of their function and build materials as pretty much every semi auto pistol is the same, it's just a matter of how much you care about longevity, parts availability, and customer service.

That's not to say a Taurus G3 is in the same league as an HK USP, it's not, but I expect the G3 to protect me just as well as the USP will. After 10k rounds however... I'm not so sure.

Most people buying guns will never put more than 1000 thru one gun over its life, so the need for a gun to last 10k rounds is minimal.

Where I do see sloppiness with firearms is in revolvers and that's because the amount of machining they require is astronomical compared to semi autos and that added time creates added cost that few are willing to pay for a low capacity, slow reloading handgun.

I won't touch rifles, all the diehard gun nuts on forums want is wood and blued steel and what moves in the marketplace is polymer and aluminum.

**44 AMP** · November 1, 2021, 03:10 PM

Industry provides what the market will pay for. High quality items and high quality work has always cost more than lesser quality. If people will accept and buy lower quality because of lower price, that's what the market provides.

This can go to extremes on both ends. If only Rolls Royce quality makes you happy then you're going to pay Rolls Royce prices.

If you're happy with a Ford Focus, you'll pay less.

For a while now, a segment of our society has been working hard to convince everyone guns are bad things and there should be no pride of ownership. Another segment views firearms as tools, simply a means to an end and isn't willing to pay for anything that does not materially improve function.

There are still a few of us around who view some firearms as functional "objects d' Art" but we are a lot thinner on the ground than in previous eras.

zeke · November 1, 2021, 03:42 PM

Course every manufacturer is different, but the latest new S&W's bought were noticably more accurate with smaller/more consistent chambers than alot of the older ones owned. Most of the newer finishes did not match the older ones, not even close. Like always, there be exceptions.

As an aside, haven't shaved in about 30 years, and since retiring have let the beard get long. Am a fastidious dresser, ensuring that my style matches my intent of keeping yuppy pond scum, beggars, others in line at walmart and other malcontents at a safe distance.

**4V50 Gary** · November 1, 2021, 03:54 PM

Nothing is hand forged and filed anymore.

October 29, 2021, 01:56 PM	#52
HenryT Junior Member Join Date: October 29, 2021 Posts: 14	The just don't make them like what they used to. I wouldn't say that the modern firearms are sloppy. They are just manufactured differently to safe cost. Take for example a small sidearm like the current Glock model 27, which has a plastic body, and bare minimum metal with the firing mechanism in the slide, comparing it with the all metal Walther PP, which has that distinct look and finish of the earlier era production. The difference is huge.

November 1, 2021, 03:10 PM	#56
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,812	Industry provides what the market will pay for. High quality items and high quality work has always cost more than lesser quality. If people will accept and buy lower quality because of lower price, that's what the market provides. This can go to extremes on both ends. If only Rolls Royce quality makes you happy then you're going to pay Rolls Royce prices. If you're happy with a Ford Focus, you'll pay less. For a while now, a segment of our society has been working hard to convince everyone guns are bad things and there should be no pride of ownership. Another segment views firearms as tools, simply a means to an end and isn't willing to pay for anything that does not materially improve function. There are still a few of us around who view some firearms as functional "objects d' Art" but we are a lot thinner on the ground than in previous eras. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 1, 2021, 03:54 PM	#58
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	Nothing is hand forged and filed anymore. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

October 30, 2021, 10:10 AM	#54
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	Based on my experience most new guns are sloppy looking and to make things worse, they have way too many defects that have to be corrected.. Poor workman ship all way round.

November 1, 2021, 03:42 PM	#57
zeke Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: NW Wi Posts: 1,671	Course every manufacturer is different, but the latest new S&W's bought were noticably more accurate with smaller/more consistent chambers than alot of the older ones owned. Most of the newer finishes did not match the older ones, not even close. Like always, there be exceptions. As an aside, haven't shaved in about 30 years, and since retiring have let the beard get long. Am a fastidious dresser, ensuring that my style matches my intent of keeping yuppy pond scum, beggars, others in line at walmart and other malcontents at a safe distance.