New Illinois gun laws

[lilguy]

A lot has happened in Illinois this week. It will be harder and more expensive for gun owners going forward. Our FOID system has cratered, my son is 16 months waiting for renewal.
One of the new requirements is running all private person to person gun trans actions through an FFL. The state put 1/2 of ours out of business with their own licensing scheme a year or so back. Does any one here have such a requirement in their locale and how has it functioned to date?

[dontcatchmany]

They will never learn.

All they are doing is restricting the law abiding citizens unnecessarily.

[natman]

Originally Posted by lilguy

A lot has happened in Illinois this week. It will be harder and more expensive for gun owners going forward. Our FOID system has cratered, my son is 16 months waiting for renewal.
One of the new requirements is running all private person to person gun trans actions through an FFL. The state put 1/2 of ours out of business with their own licensing scheme a year or so back. Does any one here have such a requirement in their locale and how has it functioned to date?

California has done much the same. Cities have done their best to drive FFLs out of business, while the state has mandated that all transfers be done via an FFL. Dealers who would rather make money selling guns are swamped with transfers and California drives their costs up with complicated paperwork (filling out a 4473 is just the start) and requires that the dealer store the gun for at least 10 days, which drives costs up. Having a gun shipped to a dealer usually costs over $100.

[Pahoo]

One factor that makes a bad law, even worse, is one is not entirely enforceable and this is one of them. .....

Be Safe !!!!

[101combatvet]

Originally Posted by Pahoo

One factor that makes a bad law, even worse, is one is not entirely enforceable and this is one of them. .....

Be Safe !!!!

True, but the worse thing about this is that they don't enforce the laws currently on the books. Hunter Biden lies on his 4473, and nothing is done. Many firearms used in crime can be traced back to a straw purchase; those cases are plea-bargained. Thanks to the politicians who have no clue and the stupid people who vote them into office, our country is a mess.

[Mike38]

I am 8 months past renewal for CCL. I am convinced that the Illinois State Police are doing this intentionally so they can ask for more money and new more restrictive laws.

[SAK]

That's disappointing to hear. I know there are a lot of people active and working to improve the laws, and doing great work, but it will take more quantity or more quality of work (more effective work) to get things changed it sounds like. Sounds like it has slid back even further the past few years.

We had really good results with open carry events - they were awesome. I recently posted the pictures at www.icarry.org for records sake. Open carry events with hundreds and hundreds of people benefitting charities and good causes. That really got people engaged and active and participating. Gave people hope - got them out of the house - emboldened them to demand their rights be recognized by law.

Good luck to you guys. Do you know if anyone has hosted open carry events in recent years? I know even after ICarry petered off there was at least 1 other person who threw at least 1 other open carry event, perhaps a string of events.

Illinois Gun Owners Together is a group on social media that meets up a lot. Perhaps they would be interested. I'll put a bug in their ear again.

[Brit]

The best state, according to me? Florida of course. When I first spoke to a recent concealed first time carrier, he also favoured Glock pistols.
I was amazed to find out, his holstered pistol had not been test fired! Loaded, holstered, done! Not one round fired.

My routine, after a visit to the range, strip down my Gen4 Glock 19. Thorough clean.
Quick re-visit to the range, one double-tap, replace the two rounds, holster up.
Good to go. No children in our house, G19 sits behind me on the bedside table, into holster when showered, and dressed.

[Pahoo]

I was amazed to find out, his holstered pistol had not been test fired! Loaded, holstered, done! Not one round fired.

I know a large number of gun owners that bought handguns, "one" box of ammo, put them in a dresser drawer and have never shot them. Made them feel better but even though I don't agree, it's still their 2A right !!!

Be Safe !!!

[44 AMP]

One of the new requirements is running all private person to person gun trans actions through an FFL. ........... Does any one here have such a requirement in their locale and how has it functioned to date?

Washington state passed a similar law a few years back (2016 IIRC), and, by voter initiative after being defeated in the Legislature several times!

its working "Fine".,,,they say.....

Probably because it is not being enforced.

Every law enforcement group in the state (save one, the King County Sheriff - Seattle) has refused to enforce it. And, publicly stated so!

And, that's because the law is a poorly written piece of crap. It requires "transfers" to go through and FFL so a background check is performed. And, we're not just talking change of legal ownership here, but also change of physical possession.

You, the gun, and the other person, ALL have to go to an FFL (during business hours) in order to comply with the law. The law does state a couple of exceptions, and limits the fee the FFL can charge, but is otherwise so vague as to be useless.

The named exceptions are transferring (loaning, we assume) a gun to another person while hunting or at a "licensed shooting range".

My personal issue with it (and, I'm not alone) is that, by listing some exceptions, that means the law applies to every other situation not listed.

And one of those situations not listed as an exception, and therefore presumptively covered by the FFL background check requirement, is (brace yourself) what happens in your own home!

Its not as foolish as it sounds, remember we are dealing with LAW here, and what is specifically covered and what isn't is a serious matter.

Suppose you go visit a friend, a guy you've known 20+ years... and he brings out his latest pistol, rifle, shotgun, semiautomatic assault rifle,., and hands it to you to look at.

You MAY have just broken the law. And you may be breaking the law again, when you hand it back to him!!! And, he MAY be breaking that law by accepting his own property back from your hands, without going through an FFL dealer!!

alternate scene, you leave for work, your guns are at home, with your spouse. She knows the combo to your safe /has the keys...Contgratulations, you MAY have just "transferred" your entire gun collection to her! And breaking the law doing so, as you did not go to an FFL and have a background check run on her for every single gun she now "possesses". And, you both may be guilty of breaking the law again, when you come home again.

These and some other common actions MIGHT be violations of the law, and that's why literally every LEO in the state has refused to enforce that law, WITHOUT and further clarification and direction on what is, and is not a covered "transfer" under the law. It's been nearly half a dozen years, and that clarification has not been given by the state.

People buying guns including used face to face transfers are generally voluntarily complying. Mostly as a CYA measure just in case the law stands after the legal challenges finally get settled.

A LOT of other people, those doing everyday things that might be covered under the law, are simply just ignoring the law. And since there is no enforcement, they're safe, doing that. For now.

On paper, the law is "working fine", but the reality is, its not being enforced, and not going to be for the foreseeable future so its no doing anything. By not doing anything, it must be a success, because it hasn't "failed", right???

This refusal of enforcement by ALL the law enforcement groups in the state (with one noted exception) is right, and proper. However, it does reduce the legal options for challenging the law. With no enforcement, there are no arrests, no prosecutions, no trials and no verdicts, so no one is being "harmed" by the law. Absent someone with a claim of harm from the law, it doesn't get priority treatment, and so will be more years making its way through the court system than if there was a case with a claim of harm and a person with standing to sue.

So, yeah, in WA we have that kind of law, and its NOT doing anything but making money for FFL dealers most of whom I've talked to would rather not be spending so much of their time doing the checks, if they had the option, which, they don't....

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

alternate scene, you leave for work, your guns are at home, with your spouse. She knows the combo to your safe /has the keys...Contgratulations, you MAY have just "transferred" your entire gun collection to her! And breaking the law doing so, as you did not go to an FFL and have a background check run on her for every single gun she now "possesses". And, you both may be guilty of breaking the law again, when you come home again.

Hmmm ...

[Donning devil's advocate hat]Is Washington a community property state? If everything a husband or wife purchases individually automatically becomes the property of both -- as a matter of law -- doesn't that mean that any time one or the other spouse purchases a firearm BOTH of them should have to fill out 4473s and go through NICS?[/doffing devil's advocate hat]

[Edit to add]Apparently Washington is a community property state: https://smartasset.com/financial-adv...roperty-states

[44 AMP]

Interesting point, and yet one more thing NOT addressed in the background check law.

[Aguila Blanca]

Interesting point, and yet one more thing NOT addressed in the background check law.

It's discouraging that a building full of lawyers didn't think of that over the entire time they spent drafting the law, but one old geezer (who is not a lawyer) sitting at a computer in another state figured it out in about 30 seconds.

[DaleA]

alternate scene, you leave for work, your guns are at home, with your spouse. She knows the combo to your safe /has the keys...Contgratulations, you MAY have just "transferred" your entire gun collection to her! And breaking the law doing so, as you did not go to an FFL and have a background check run on her for every single gun she now "possesses". And, you both may be guilty of breaking the law again, when you come home again.

Funny you should mention this. A Firing Line thread last month links to a Canadian lawyer who claims the Canadian LE's have actually used a similar tactic to coerce/intimidate/threaten folk. It's a long interview but interesting.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=611881

[FITASC]

They will never learn.

All they are doing is restricting the law abiding citizens unnecessarily.

I disagree - they learned VERY well how to make it harder and harder for gun owners to acquire and possess guns and ammo - that was the entire motive. It sure hasn't stopped one gang killing in Chicago...............