Picked up the P365X and why I dislike gun reviewers

[wild cat mccane]

I picked up the P365X yesterday The X has the X grip with beaver tail, 12rnd mag size, the short 3" slide with optic plate, and flat trigger. Everything is great about it except one little known factoid to sig owners but never mention on reviews...

The praised flat trigger....sucks. I had never heard this on a review.

I immediately went to the forums to figure out what was wrong with this new P365X and it's a known thing. The "better" flat trigger is heavier, creepier, travels more, and just in general is horrid. The regular non "enhanced" P365 trigger is like a PPQ. Everything about the regular shaped trigger is great. This flat trigger is basically garbage.

Off it goes. I think the P365 is amazing. I would never recommend the XL or X given how bad this trigger is and how this is a common/known issue on the Sig forum.

[TunnelRat]

It’s not the flat trigger shoe. It’s the variances in triggers of the P365 itself. I’ve installed the curved trigger shoe in my P365XL. It was the same thing. As we’ve covered multiple times on this forum, while you have compared your P365 trigger to a PPQ both myself and others have not found that to be the case, including people that didn’t own a P365XL or P365X. A PPQ is light years better than my trigger and any P365 I’ve personally tried. That you have a good trigger is great, but it’s not in my experience the norm. Maybe the triggers worsened as production evolved.

You can buy just the curved trigger shoe direct from SIG for I think $30.


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[wild cat mccane]

I don't know. The Sig forum had some pretty convincing arguments that something is different about the flat trigger...but then like you said to variation, a lot of people like it on that forum too.

Darn it. Variation sounds like the win. I can honestly say my P365 (regular) had a PPQ like trigger. Super light, wall, fast reset. This one is hard, hard.

[TunnelRat]

A while back you had linked me to a pseudo trigger job in terms of polishing. FWIW that did help somewhat and I also stoned and polished the trigger bar.

What actually ended up making the most difference was replacing the striker assembly. It took a pound off the trigger and while the take up is still there it wasn’t nearly as gritty.

Take the slide off the pistol, flip back up the takedown lever so the trigger can actually engage the sear, and work the trigger to the rear. If it still feels junky then my guess is the problem is in your lower. If it feels fine then you might have a similar issue. For the life of me I couldn’t visually see the difference in my striker assemblies. I will say my trigger bar also had more rough edges than early CZs I owned. The P320s don’t seem to have as much variance, or as poor finishing internally.


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[wild cat mccane]

Yeah. I do feel a bit sheepish for sending you that info, not realizing this is (apparently) a known quality control issue.

Thanks for that info!

I'm going to look at that today. I don't know if I want to play around with more than that though having had a great P365 trigger. Wonder if Sig would consider looking at it. It's just atrocious and I've drank from the sweet stream of a great P365 trigger. I know it can happen.

[TunnelRat]

Yeah. I’ll say that having been burned in the past this is why I don’t sell a pistol for another pistol if I can’t handle it first. Now if you had sold your original P365 unrelatedly then never mind.

I even looked to see if SIG offers a custom shop service for the P365 like they did the P2xx series. As best as I can tell they don’t..


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[Carl the Floor Walker]

I saw this video review and found it to be quite informative and as far as the 365 and XL to be very accurate towhat I have experienced shooting the 365 and now owning the XL. I have not shot the X version yet. Of the two, I prefer the XL over the standard 365. Normally I prefer a curved trigger. I guess that may depend on the particular Pistol. I like the mechanics and pull of the XL. Maybe a curved trigger would even be better.
I personally do no want, or have a desire for a super light trigger for EDC. But that is just my personal opinion.
Regardless, I do not think you will have a hard time selling the gun. Especially since it is almost NEW. You might take a little loss, but not much.

Nice review of the comparisons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMQI...annel=sootch00

[wild cat mccane]

I just don't want to deal with this as an issue. Already listed it this morning and sold.

I think the P365 has got to be the highest value pistol right now. Not enough on the used market and apparently a perceived shortage that people pay brand new and higher prices used.

Sold two for higher than I paid in the last 2 weeks.

I am going to buy the standard version again and will be very careful looking at the trigger first.

I did find the XL/X grip was nice, but it is an entire hand grip hold for my smallish hands. This isn't entirely needed, so the shorter grip works best for my use of the P365.

[TunnelRat]

I don’t know that you’re less likely to encounter this issue with current production of the standard P365 than a P365X. If you like the standard more fair enough. I would be sure to dry fire the trigger either way.

Some time back I bought a curved trigger for my XL to try out. I ended up keeping in the straight trigger because I found the trigger reach with the curved trigger was a bit short for me and with the curved trigger I ended up pushing shots left. Given this thread I took some time and put the curved trigger back in to see the difference.

There is a difference between the curved and flat triggers in terms of feel, and I think that to an extent this can make it seem like one or the other is “better”, but I think this is more a human physiology difference than a mechanical difference. With a flat trigger the reality is a smaller part of your finger is making contact with the trigger face as opposed to a curved trigger, especially with the P365 where the curved trigger is very curved and makes tons of contact with your trigger finger. This smaller contact area increases the pressure felt (Pressure = Force/Area). You also feel any creep, grit, etc on that smaller portion of your finger, which to me makes it seem more acute.

I’m not a huge fan of a flat trigger. My understanding is part of the advantage is the trigger “feel” is essentially the same regardless of where your finger falls on the trigger face. But I’ll be honest and say I haven’t found that to be a big issue with curved triggers. I do often like the feel of the trigger break on flat triggers, but I also think they can end up making the reset feel longer (and I sometimes short stroke those triggers when I don’t otherwise). Some manufacturers split the difference and use what I would call a bowed trigger. APEX tactical has some triggers like this.

My point in the above is there is a difference in feel between curved and flat triggers and that difference can make it seem like the same pistol has a trigger of differing qualities, just by swapping the trigger shoe. Couple that with variation among pistols and it’s feasible that people can have different experience and opinions of a given trigger.


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[wild cat mccane]

I think you are exactly right. The flat trigger is wide, but my finger doesn't contact most of it.

I'm still playing with the X (selling it tonight). The trigger finger is less centered and mostly to the side because of the way it's shaped (for me). The bad feel is pronounced more than it really is when I start playing with it. Just as you said, I think it's my finger feeling it more because less straight on finger is on it. That makes it feel worse than my previous P365 with the curved trigger.

I don't think I can get passed how much the feel is different to keep it. Hard to say if that's a real problem without actually shooting it, but I think you nailed it. My finger is feeling more of an issue than is really there.

For concealed, I do like the shorter grip better. So with new grip, base plate changes, and a new trigger, I think it's a good idea for me to move back to the regular P365. Oh well.

Thanks for you thoughts on it.

[TunnelRat]

That’s fair. You have to evaluate your own intended uses and determine what works for you. Even if I don’t own a base P365, I think there’s a reason that size and configuration should and will stay around. Good luck with your sale.


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[JB in SC]

After looking at more than a few 365XL's, some have great triggers some don't. The flat triggers feel a little lighter but some are awful.

I like the regular 365 with the XL grip module.

You can now build your own 365 on the Sig website with various configurations, but only using the FCU with the flat trigger.

[wild cat mccane]

Ha! We missed it by exactly one day. Sig is offering a Custom Shop P365 FCU.

https://www.sigsauer.com/configurator/p365


Also, the stainless two tone silver slide is now out with night sights and 2 mags. Previously this was a Cabelas exclusive without night sights and one mag.

There are 3 dealers (who use the same purchase system) that are selling the P365 for below MAP on gun.deals. I just bought a black slide regular P365 for $450. This is the lowest I've ever seen a P365.

[Lima Oscar 7]

I always shoot a pistol at least 1,000 times before I pass judgement.

When I was coming of age to the world of pistols, Jim Clark of Clark Custom Guns had his log cabin shop in Keithville, Louisiana. I know what a good trigger is. I have never seen a polymer striker fired handgun that comes close and thus why I won’t pay more than $500 something for one. IMHO, they are a utilitarian tool. If you are required to use it, you won’t notice the trigger.

[wild cat mccane]

Hickok45 said in his newest review of the polymer Walther PDP that it was the best trigger he's shot. Then he corrected that it wasn't THE best but one of the best



I took a pic of the straight trigger on the X and it's exactly what TunnelRat said. My finger is only on 25% of the trigger. I think that makes a huge difference for feeling pounds and feeling a longer reset.

Hopefully my new P365 comes with the trigger of my previous P365. That was PPQ level on reset, wall, and almost on weight of pull.

I'll take a pic with the trigger trigger and post up the comparison. TunnelRat discovered something I've not read about anywhere on why I thought the straight trigger was worse.

[Lima Oscar 7]

Sorry it didn’t work out for you.

[Sigkid79]

I made the mistake last year of buying the SAS model p365. It was absolutely awful! Sold it for more than I paid this year and purchased the standard P365 with night sights.

[Seedy Character]

Unless the test / review is done by an independent company (ice. Consumer Affair), the "reviewer" is dependent on the manufacturer to send their latest whiz-bang in for review (aka advertising).

If a writer / reviewer does not shower the "new & improved " with colorful prose and praise, there will not be a steady supply of new whiz-bangs to "test".

Even the with specified testing criteria of Army trials, bias can be built in to favor one particular feature over another.

"Feel" is always subjective. Case in point; Block. Years of service have Proven the Block to be reliable. However, I don't like the "feel" of their grip. I have carried a 1911 for 25 years and it is what I expect. Same thing with a double stack mag. Many will argue that JMB "improved" his 1911 with the Hi-Power. They are fine tools. I have shot and admired several. I don't like them, hard as I've tried, much as I want to. Does that make Blocks or Hi-Powers inferior to a1911? Fundamentally, NO. Subjectively, in MY world; YES.

I read most gun (car, tool, whatever) reviews, as infomercials. What are the FACTS of testing and performance vs the subjective biases of the writer.

[wild cat mccane]

Agreed. Proven more so that I've never heard of a reviewer being the first to uncover an issue. Sigh.

Yes. The SAS P365 left me thinking how in the world would losing elevation adjustment be a good thing. Seems the SAS has fizzled and no new Sig has this sight system.

[reddog81]

A lot of guns sold these days don't have elevation adjustments on either the front or rear.

Sig has an SAS version for the 365 and 938. Those are the 2 models geared towards concealed carry. The SAS sight system doesn't make much sense on a full size gun.

[TunnelRat]

I’ve seen reviewers mention issues I’ve never seen before.

Besides the fact that the feel of the firearm is subjective, all of these reviews are generally samples of one. Within just this thread we have one person who had very different experiences with a pistol based on just the change of the trigger shape. I myself have never handled a P365 with a trigger that I would compare to a PPQ, curved trigger or not. Does that mean we’re all lying? Or maybe delusional? Or maybe the simple answer is not all of these experiences are the same.

The prevailing wisdom seems to be reviewers are either paid shills or haters. If they give a positive review it must be because they were paid or given access for free, whereas if they give a negative review they must hate that brand or just want to generate clicks.


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[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by reddog81

A lot of guns sold these days don't have elevation adjustments on either the front or rear.

Sig has an SAS version for the 365 and 938. Those are the 2 models geared towards concealed carry. The SAS sight system doesn't make much sense on a full size gun.

SIG sells front and rear sights of different heights (with optics models that use the plate to hold the rear sight it’s just the front). Replacing those can achieve a degree of elevation adjustment. I did it myself on my XL (which I found to impact low).


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[claydoctor]

The trigger in the 365 pinched my finger, not unlike a Glock. Had the flat trigger installed, same thing. Had the same problem with the 365XL. Got a Performance Center Shield and it has a great trigger. Feels like a 1911 trigger.