Greetings from Germany: Which Colt Trooper to buy?

powertube · February 3, 2018, 02:08 PM

Hello everyone,

as i'm from germany and have learned english in school 20 years ago, so mine english got a little bit rusty over time.
Anyway i hope that my english is good enough, that you can help me.

I've been at my local dealer yesterday. This dealer is specialist for hunting & equipment, but sometimes he has some nice, classic second-hand revolvers in stock.

Those weapons are often used by hunters for short distance back up, to take down an aggressive animal if the hunter hasn't made a clean shot with his rifle.

Back to topic: I've took a look in his gun safe and found 2 beautiful 6" Colt Revolvers.
In my opinion, both are in an good optical and technical condition.

cylinder play, timing and cylinder gap seem to be pretty good on both of them. also i can't spot (sorry, i hope that you know what i mean) "magnumrille" on any of them.

optically both of them are pretty much identical for me, but i'm far away from an expert.
I made 2 photos (sorry for the poor quality)

the model above with the serial no j33702 has the print "Trooper MK3" on the barrel, the second one (serial 58140) just trooper 357.

I've checked both serials at the colt serial lookup and got those results:

j33702 (trooper mk3) (first picture)

1970
"MKIII SERIES: LAWMAN, METROPOLITAN,OFFICIAL POLICE, OFFICER MODEL MATCH & TROOPER"

............

with the second one (serial 58140) i'm not sure if the serial is just 58140 or J58140
I've just searched for 58140 and got a lot of results (seems that, the numbers has been used in colt production history for different models)

1966 TROOPER MODEL & .357 MODEL

when i'm searching for J58140, i get this result:

1971
"MKIII SERIES: LAWMAN, METROPOLITAN,OFFICIAL POLICE, OFFICER MODEL MATCH & TROOPER"

Can anyone help me to figure out the correct model and year of manufacturing for those 2 beauties? Are both of them the MK3 model? Which of both should I buy?

And don't forget, that I'm from germany. That means, that I'm not able to buy both of them, as it's forbidden by law.

If interesting for you: I'm shooting a lot of 25m (82 feet) precision, so I would mostly use it with 38 special all the time.

dgludwig · February 3, 2018, 03:43 PM

Both are very nice revolvers. If one is much cheaper than the other, I'd buy it.

Your English is much better than my German.

Welcome to the Firing Line. auf Wiedsehen!

reddog81 · February 3, 2018, 06:38 PM

If they're the same price and same condition I'd go for the Trooper, but I prefer older guns in general. There are a number of threads online explaining the difference between the Trooper and the Trooper MKIII. The MKIII is probably going to be easier to get repaired if anything ever breaks. Both look like nice well cared for guns.

What's the price on them?

Slamfire · February 3, 2018, 08:02 PM

I have one of these:

According to Wiki the design was changed around 1969.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Trooper

I know the lockworks on my MkIII are different from my Police Positives and Python. I prefer the older lockworks, though I cannot say that my MKIII is inaccurate or inferior, but I would go with the older revolver.

I would get both if they are in your budget.

Siggy-06 · February 4, 2018, 07:59 AM

Es kann schwierig sein, Teile zu finden, falls irgendetwas in einer der beiden Pistolen bricht. Colt hat vor langer Zeit aufgehört, Revolver und Teile für die Trooper-Serie zu machen. Beide sehen jedoch sehr nett aus. Ich würde stattdessen nach einer S & W suchen.

[Moderator edit]
He said:

Quote:

It can be difficult to find parts if anything breaks in either gun. Colt long ago stopped making revolvers and parts for the Trooper series. Both, however, look very nice. I would instead look for a S & W.

Slamfire · February 4, 2018, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Es kann schwierig sein, Teile zu finden, falls irgendetwas in einer der beiden Pistolen bricht. Colt hat vor langer Zeit aufgehört, Revolver und Teile für die Trooper-Serie zu machen. Beide sehen jedoch sehr nett aus. Ich würde stattdessen nach einer S & W suchen.

That is true, but even for older S&W revolvers, you can't get parts. I can tell you, the same if true for older automobiles and trucks. Some parts are just not available. For any vintage firearm, examine it for mechanical condition, fit. One check on any S&W and Colt is to determine if the cylinder rotates the cylinder in line with the barrel, and the cylinder stop drops in.

Colts : lock work & timing problems ??? https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=166229

Colt Double Action Work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI5lHWQw1IU

Colts were more likely to have timing issues because in a Colt, the hammer falls just as, or during, cylinder lock. A little hand wear, a little ratchet wear, and the timing is off. S&W revolvers, the hand pushes the cylinder into position, the hand goes into the cylinder slot, and then the hammer falls.

If the pistols are timed correctly, then nothing is wrong, go shoot the thing, and enjoy it. I do recommend shooting mid range 357 loads with 158's in the things. Lighter bullets, the 125's, are hard on the forcing cones which is why later S&W's (the 686's) came with thicker barrels and forcing cones.

Lets understand something else, everything wears out. If you shoot lighter loads, it will last longer. There are very few who ever shoot 30,000 to 50,000 rounds through any revolver, and therefore, parts availability is only a concern if the part was defective when it was made. And it breaks early.

SIGSHR · February 4, 2018, 01:35 PM

Gruessen aus den Vereinigten Staaten. Here we speak "Gun"
As noted parts for both revolver-especially the original Troop-are VERY scarce over here.
I have never had a Mark III, a 1968 vintage Trooper is my favorite revolver.

tmlynch · February 4, 2018, 06:19 PM

The smoothest revolver trigger pull I have ever experienced was on an original Trooper (your second picture). To this day, I regret I did not buy it on the spot.

Good luck with your purchase!
Tom

PzGren · February 4, 2018, 11:57 PM

Since you want a rimfire revolver, you should not overlook an older S&W M17. They can be found for about the same price as a Colt OMM or Trooper but are still much cheaper than a Korth from 24 series and above.

I have seen one Colt OMM that had developped late carry-up over the years of heavy use as a gun club gun. Parts and service for Colt revolvers are not easily found, making S&W and Korth a better choice for you. I have a Colt OMM made in 1961, a 1951 S&W K-22, and a bunch of rimfire Korths. The K-22 shoots along with any of my Korths when it comes to mechanical accuracy, the difference is in the quality and longevity, as well as in the superior double action characteristics of a Korth with its wheel bearing on top of the trigger.

rock185 · February 7, 2018, 10:55 PM

Hello and welcome powertube, Your English is very good!

I've owned both of those models. Both of mine had 6" barrels, and both were very good guns. In similar condition though, I would prefer the older pre MK III revolver. The single action trigger on both of mine was excellent, but the double action of the older gun was far superior, being both lighter and smoother than the MK III.

I would think that repair parts for either, would not be easily found now days....

powertube · December 13, 2018, 08:55 AM

Hey Guys,

I forgot about this thread here, but I would like to say thanks for your support.

As recommened I picked up the classic trooper (pre mk3) at the LGS.

First impression was that this beauty was in a pretty good condition (in relation to the age) so I could hardly wait to shoot this beauty.

But after shooting the first 6 rounds I noticed a lot of metal fragments on the shooting bench. After ejecting the cylinder I realized that those metal fragments are scraps from the bullets.

A friend from my shooting club checked the trooper and we've found out, that it was "out of time".

As it's nearly unpossible to find a colt specialized gunsmith in Germany, I brought it back to the LGS and bought the MK3.

And I'm very satisfied with the MK3, despite the heavier trigger compared with the classic trooper. But this gun is built like a tank, very little recoil and
as far as I can assess, the action is not nearly as finicky at the pre MK3s action.

USNRet93 · December 13, 2018, 12:49 PM

PM sent

February 3, 2018, 02:08 PM	#1
powertube Member Join Date: February 3, 2018 Location: Germany Posts: 16	Greetings from Germany: Which Colt Trooper to buy? Hello everyone, as i'm from germany and have learned english in school 20 years ago, so mine english got a little bit rusty over time. Anyway i hope that my english is good enough, that you can help me. I've been at my local dealer yesterday. This dealer is specialist for hunting & equipment, but sometimes he has some nice, classic second-hand revolvers in stock. Those weapons are often used by hunters for short distance back up, to take down an aggressive animal if the hunter hasn't made a clean shot with his rifle. Back to topic: I've took a look in his gun safe and found 2 beautiful 6" Colt Revolvers. In my opinion, both are in an good optical and technical condition. cylinder play, timing and cylinder gap seem to be pretty good on both of them. also i can't spot (sorry, i hope that you know what i mean) "magnumrille" on any of them. optically both of them are pretty much identical for me, but i'm far away from an expert. I made 2 photos (sorry for the poor quality) the model above with the serial no j33702 has the print "Trooper MK3" on the barrel, the second one (serial 58140) just trooper 357. I've checked both serials at the colt serial lookup and got those results: j33702 (trooper mk3) (first picture) 1970 "MKIII SERIES: LAWMAN, METROPOLITAN,OFFICIAL POLICE, OFFICER MODEL MATCH & TROOPER" ............ with the second one (serial 58140) i'm not sure if the serial is just 58140 or J58140 I've just searched for 58140 and got a lot of results (seems that, the numbers has been used in colt production history for different models) 1966 TROOPER MODEL & .357 MODEL when i'm searching for J58140, i get this result: 1971 "MKIII SERIES: LAWMAN, METROPOLITAN,OFFICIAL POLICE, OFFICER MODEL MATCH & TROOPER" Can anyone help me to figure out the correct model and year of manufacturing for those 2 beauties? Are both of them the MK3 model? Which of both should I buy? And don't forget, that I'm from germany. That means, that I'm not able to buy both of them, as it's forbidden by law. If interesting for you: I'm shooting a lot of 25m (82 feet) precision, so I would mostly use it with 38 special all the time. Last edited by powertube; February 3, 2018 at 02:17 PM.

February 3, 2018, 03:43 PM	#2
dgludwig Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2005 Location: North central Ohio Posts: 7,486	Both are very nice revolvers. If one is much cheaper than the other, I'd buy it. Your English is much better than my German. Welcome to the Firing Line. auf Wiedsehen! __________________ ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED ...Aristotle NRA Benefactor Life Member

February 3, 2018, 08:02 PM	#4
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	I have one of these: According to Wiki the design was changed around 1969. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Trooper I know the lockworks on my MkIII are different from my Police Positives and Python. I prefer the older lockworks, though I cannot say that my MKIII is inaccurate or inferior, but I would go with the older revolver. I would get both if they are in your budget. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

February 7, 2018, 10:55 PM	#10
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,091	Hello and welcome powertube, Your English is very good! I've owned both of those models. Both of mine had 6" barrels, and both were very good guns. In similar condition though, I would prefer the older pre MK III revolver. The single action trigger on both of mine was excellent, but the double action of the older gun was far superior, being both lighter and smoother than the MK III. I would think that repair parts for either, would not be easily found now days.... __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life

December 13, 2018, 12:49 PM	#12
USNRet93 Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2018 Location: Republic of Boulder, USA Posts: 1,475	PM sent __________________ PhormerPhantomPhlyer "Tools not Trophies”

February 3, 2018, 06:38 PM	#3
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,634	If they're the same price and same condition I'd go for the Trooper, but I prefer older guns in general. There are a number of threads online explaining the difference between the Trooper and the Trooper MKIII. The MKIII is probably going to be easier to get repaired if anything ever breaks. Both look like nice well cared for guns. What's the price on them?

February 4, 2018, 01:35 PM	#7
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Gruessen aus den Vereinigten Staaten. Here we speak "Gun" As noted parts for both revolver-especially the original Troop-are VERY scarce over here. I have never had a Mark III, a 1968 vintage Trooper is my favorite revolver.

February 4, 2018, 06:19 PM	#8
tmlynch Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 197	The smoothest revolver trigger pull I have ever experienced was on an original Trooper (your second picture). To this day, I regret I did not buy it on the spot. Good luck with your purchase! Tom

December 13, 2018, 08:55 AM	#11
powertube Member Join Date: February 3, 2018 Location: Germany Posts: 16	Hey Guys, I forgot about this thread here, but I would like to say thanks for your support. As recommened I picked up the classic trooper (pre mk3) at the LGS. First impression was that this beauty was in a pretty good condition (in relation to the age) so I could hardly wait to shoot this beauty. But after shooting the first 6 rounds I noticed a lot of metal fragments on the shooting bench. After ejecting the cylinder I realized that those metal fragments are scraps from the bullets. A friend from my shooting club checked the trooper and we've found out, that it was "out of time". As it's nearly unpossible to find a colt specialized gunsmith in Germany, I brought it back to the LGS and bought the MK3. And I'm very satisfied with the MK3, despite the heavier trigger compared with the classic trooper. But this gun is built like a tank, very little recoil and as far as I can assess, the action is not nearly as finicky at the pre MK3s action.