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Old August 8, 2017, 09:35 PM   #1
tahunua001
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arisaka gurus, have a question about mum/CC marks

I just won a bid for a type 38 arisaka. in my opinion I paid a bit much for it but didn't really occur to me until I had just checked out and saw all the extra fees I incurred and didn't notice... stupid me...

anyway, the listing claimed that this was a super uber rare type 38 that had seen military service but then had the mum struck over with the concentric circle and removed from service for sale to another country. this story sounds completely bogus to me as I was under the impression that CC rifles were built from the beginning as sale contract rifles. is there any documentation or validity to claims that some rifles were removed from service and sold or was this just a fancy way to deface the mum postwar?

also doesn't look like a concentric circle to me.


EDIT:
in a cruel twist of fate, I also just won a rifle that I bid on before this one that is a dufflecut 38 carbine, does anyone know roughly the amount of value lost in a dufflecut rifle?
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Last edited by tahunua001; August 11, 2017 at 06:53 PM.
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Old August 9, 2017, 05:42 AM   #2
JT-AR-MG42
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Yeah tahunua, I sure felt the sting of high shipping costs on an auction early in my on-line career.
Did not pay attention when I bid ,so I paid when I won.

Since then if there is not a dollar figure on shipping, I ask about it early in the auction.
No answer means I either bid as if shipping were 75.00 or I do not bid at all.

Were the photos so bad you could not make the Koishikawa Arsenal symbol over the mum
instead of the claimed circles?
The rifle shown is a rather common variation of a removed from service type 38.
I have taken a chance on several with bad photos. Good luck so far.

I have never read of overseas sales of any of the defaced mum (or CC rifles) myself.

Nice 'tan line' on it from the dust cover though!
Enjoy it as a shooter,
JT
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Old August 9, 2017, 07:18 PM   #3
James K
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The "mum" was the symbol of the Emperor and placed on the rifle to show that it was Imperial property (much the same way British rifles were marked with a crown). Most of the rifles with the "mum" struck over by a circle marking were intended for issue to schools (the equivalent of the American ROTC) not for sale to foreign countries. At the end of the war, the US allowed the Japanese to deface the "mum" before surrendering rifles stored in depots, but that was done in a much cruder manner, either with a blunt object or a grinder. Contrary to some interesting stories, Japanese soldiers in the field did not carry grinders to remove the crest before engaging in "Banzai charges," nor did President Truman order the FBI to search out every captured Japanese rifle in the country and grind off the crest.

Jim
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Old August 10, 2017, 10:08 PM   #4
tahunua001
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Quote:
either with a blunt object or a grinder.
I have a type 44 that got the grinder treatment and most that I've seen were with a grinder although I have seen a few that were nothing more than a chisel marking on the mum to deface it.

Quote:
I have never read of overseas sales of any of the defaced mum (or CC rifles) myself.
I know of at least a few type 30s that were sold to great britain and there are some confirmed cases of finnish type 38s that were all concentric circle rifles so I know some were sold.
Quote:
The rifle shown is a rather common variation of a removed from service type 38
as for removed from service, is this a removed from service for use with another organization or was this post war removed from service for surrender?
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Old August 11, 2017, 06:56 PM   #5
tahunua001
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I also posted this in the OP as an update. so I had bid on a rifle that I had not hope or intention of winning, I only bid the minimum amount with 5 days left on the auction, well apparently I just won it. the rifle in question is a type 38 carbine with mum intact that is a very obvious duffle cut just behind the tang. does anyone know how much this decreases the value and whether this is going to create structural issues if I try and fire it?
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Old August 12, 2017, 03:05 PM   #6
James K
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At one time, there were folks who could repair a cut stock, but I am not aware of any active today. The usual method was to drill both ends and use a thick dowel rod and glue to put the stock back together. (Alternatively, of course, a used stock can probably be found, but some variations are scarce.)

Jim
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Old August 12, 2017, 11:10 PM   #7
10-96
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Give these guys a holler about that stock. They seem to have the craziest knack for coming up with needed pieces, parts, and doo-daderies of all sorts.

http://oldguns.net/

Edit: Numrich has them from $53 to $155 for the set.
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I'm going to use the words "clip" and "Long Colt" every chance I get. It grinds my gears to see new members attacked when we all know dang good and well what's being refered to.

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