Colt Woodsman Doesn't Extract

Swifty Morgan · March 10, 2020, 12:50 PM

I'm shooting my Woodsman for the first time, and it's not even trying to extract. Can anyone tell me what the most likely cause is?

Swifty Morgan · March 10, 2020, 01:02 PM

Well, now it extracts. Weird. Wish I could delete the thread.

Pahoo · March 10, 2020, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Can anyone tell me what the most likely cause is?

Most likely is a hard call but as with so many Semi's, there is a likely priority list. You really have to narrow it down a but more and observation of the action is a good start. What is it doing in manual operation/extraction? The extractor could point, could be worn or weak spring. Read the extracted shell, rim and case and see what is looks like. I can think of about six areas that I would observe. From there it's a process of elimination. How old is the piece? ….

Be Safe !!!

Swifty Morgan · March 10, 2020, 01:17 PM

The gun is from about 1950.

It turns out it won't cycle Mini-mags.

I just shot 9 rounds of some kind of CCI copper round nose, and they cycled. Weirder still, the accuracy from a little over 7 yards was insane.

Swifty Morgan · March 10, 2020, 01:39 PM

What a strange day of shooting.

I grabbed rounds from a box of Mini-mag HP's, and they would not cycle. Accuracy was poor, too. I figured that was my fault, because I am out of practice. I'm posting the target. The lower left bullseye represents 18 rounds.

I found some round nose CCI shells, and I shot 9 of them into the upper left bullseye. As you can see, even with my two flyers, this stuff is crazy accurate. I did not know I was currently able to shoot this well.

The top right bullseye is more Mini-mag HP's, which also failed to cycle.

I don't know what to make of this. I feel like I need to start paying more attention to the ammo I buy. I thought all .22 rounds would shoot about the same at this short distance, but it looks like I was way wrong.

I think the round nose bullets are also Mini-Mags. I'm going to go look for some more. I see no point in continuing to shoot until I get more of this ammo.

The sad thing is that I just ordered 3000 CCI Choot 'em rounds, thinking they would work as well as anything.

I guess I shoot better than I thought, so now I need to start spending more for ammo in all calibers.

SIGSHR · March 10, 2020, 03:02 PM

Try giving the chamber a good cleaning.
Don't feel bad, lately I have been shooting my Browning HP and Colt Mark IV with Ciener units. Remington ammunition works fine, with other brands I get failures to extract. ?
I made a brass rod with a wooden handle to push the cases out.

Swifty Morgan · March 10, 2020, 04:24 PM

More weirdness: the ammo extracts when I pull the slide manually.

jrothWA · March 10, 2020, 04:29 PM

The Mini-Mag sholud extrct like crazy.

Check ammo for extra wax od bullet tht will retrard extration.
Soke the chamber with a Wooden stick cotton swab and detail with a bore brush in the chamber and chucked in a cordless drill drive and spi slowly to poli the chamber.

Aalos check for a pit in the chamber that the case will fill-in during firing.

rodfac · March 10, 2020, 04:30 PM

Just a cpl thoughts on .22 LR handguns....
** Keep 'em clean: bolt face, chamber especially...generally most will not give the 200-300 round reliability that some center-fires are capable of. This is true of both revolvers as well as autos.

Built up of bullet lube, lead shavings as well as burnt powder residue will quickly degrade reliability. While you don't necessarily need to clean the bore, the chamber and bullet seat need to be brushed out from time to time.

For my guns: (Colt Woodsman Match Target, Colt Diamondback, S&W M18, two Ruger Single Sixes, a Smith M41, and a Ruger Standard Mkll. I also shoot with .22 LR uppers on two Sigs and a couple of my 1911's.), I use a bore snake to run through the bore once every 50 rounds. For the revolvers, I clean the chamber as well as the ejector star with a fine bristle tooth brush. And for the autos; I scrub the bolt face with the toothbrush.

Lastly, I re-lube with CLP, very lightly touching up the ejector rod on revolvers and the rails on the autos. Grease on those parts will degrade reliability in my guns. This regimen has kept my guns very reliable, seldom failing to chamber or eject unless I have a defective round.

HTH's Rod

Swifty Morgan · March 10, 2020, 05:24 PM

Everything seems to be fine now. I think it would have helped had I cleaned the gun before shooting it, instead of running outside like a two-year-old!

The trigger on this thing is beyond belief. It makes my S&W Victory look very bad.

stinkeypete · March 10, 2020, 05:35 PM

Give the chamber a good scrub, scrub the bore... then pull a bore snake through it every couple of bricks whether it needs it or not.

Expect accuracy to fall off after cleaning until you put about 50 down range.

I would not use mini mags. Try CCI SV, Aguila (standard velocity) and Blazer. These days I find CCI SV is not the magic bullet it used to be and blazer is as good for less.

Pathfinder45 · March 10, 2020, 06:32 PM

As others said, clean it thoroughly. I will add to pay particular attention to the extractor-cut in the breech end of the barrel. Clean the slide, especially the extractor parts religiously. Scrub the chamber.

Swifty Morgan · March 10, 2020, 07:04 PM

This experience has changed my expectations. My new goal is 20 rounds through 1/2" at 7 yards. I think the Colt can do it if the ammunition is okay.

Metric · March 11, 2020, 07:08 AM

The Woodsman is a work of art, and should be reliable with a broad spectrum of.22 loads, including mini-mag.

It is very likely that the forward part of the chamber has built up a thick ring of fouling (over 70 years) that will not come out with a bore snake or brush. You may need to remove the slide to get a good look.

When this happens with my 22's, I use something like a pin to systematically go around and knock off the fouling, which can be tenacious. It requires being able to see directly into the chamber. There may be an easier technique, but I don't know one.

rodfac · March 11, 2020, 07:54 AM

If the forward part of the chamber is fouled with powder residue & lead shavings, a small piece of an ALL COPPER Chore Boy wrapped around an old bore brush will make short work of the buildup.

Be sure it's an ALL COPPER pad however. Most that you find in Walmart or the Dollar Store are steel pads with a copper plating...definitely not good for your bore. Another solution is the justly famous Lewis Lead Remover with the appropriate size jag. It's expensive and works no better than the Chore Boy method.

Several years ago I bought a tube of ALL COPPER Chore Boy pads off Amazon...definitely a life time supply, but they were cheap and work to perfection.

Best Regards, Rod

Hdonly · March 11, 2020, 08:45 AM

One thing I have learned in all my years of shooting (and there are many) is that a particular gun can be very picky about what ammo it likes. Some will eat anything and do well while some will only like a certain brand the best. My Ruger 10/22 doesn't care what you stick in it. My friends Marlin 60 is very picky down to only one or two brands. It's just a gun thing.

HiBC · March 11, 2020, 09:09 AM

There is a point wher older Woodsmans should not be used with hi vel 22's.

I seem to remember something about smooth vs serrated mainspring housing or something.Its a memory from around 1970. Research should turn it up. IMO,lose the stingers and mini mags an shoot standard velocity. The gun is a 70 year old fine pistol.

Intuitively,the extractor seems a place to look...maybe.Might the chamber mouth be peened b dry firiring?

Sometimes the extractor works fine,it holds the empty on th breech and puts it right back in the chamber. That would be "Failure to eject"

Inspect the ejector.

The gun could be short stroking. Then the ejection would not happen. Is the gun clean and lubed? Try a little Break Free CLP.

Do you hold the gun very gently? Firm up your grip a bit. Handshake firm.

That's a sweet,very desirable pistol. Lucky you!

Metric · March 11, 2020, 10:43 AM

Definitely a good idea to double check the chamber for dry-fire peening.

The standard velocity / high velocity transition took place in the early 1930's, and was simply a matter of Colt heat treating certain parts -- it's not a matter of the steel getting old and feeble in its retirement years. A Woodsman from 1950 should be completely fine with mini-mags.

Swifty Morgan · March 11, 2020, 12:09 PM

It turns out I was wrong about the date of manufacture. It's more like 1976.

T. O'Heir · March 11, 2020, 12:42 PM

"...The Mini-Mag should..." Yep. They're a 40 grain, gilded lead, round nose at 1235 FPS MV. However, .22's being .22's, it's not entirely unusual for any of 'em to dislike a particular brand or load.
As mentioned, some of 'em will only cycle with particular brands of ammo. The Smith 41 is notorious for that. Mine only works properly with Remington Target and the old no longer available IVI standard velocity. It works with HV stuff too, the 41 being used by U.S. hunters, but I never bothered testing with that.
As always, you should start with a really good bath. Then you must try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo your pistol will both shoot well and cycle the action. The price of said ammo means nothing.
"...Well, now it extracts. Weird..." .22's will do that too.

stinkeypete · March 11, 2020, 12:50 PM

I didn't mean to suggest that there was anything dangerous about a Woodsman shooting MiniMags.

MiniMags are not very accurate compared to the subsonic "standard" mid-grade ammunition. I have yet to see a rabbit or squirrel that can tell the difference between what kind of .22 rimfire bullet they get hit with (other than the Paco-ized semi-wadcutters and the tool is too dear for me to buy)

CCI Stingers have a longer case than regular, so if there is crud in the chamber or it's a tight match chamber- those can be sticky.

As people said, a really good cleaning is in order... careful chamber scrub with copper chore boy and careful attention to the extractor.

I really am serious... only clean the bore every 1,000 rounds. I clean the breach area with a soft patch and q tip every couple hundred rounds. A .22 target pistol truly gains accuracy as the barrel "seasons".. so don't scrub your accuracy away.

From a sandbag, your goal of half inch groups can be done at 50'.

HiBC · March 12, 2020, 10:40 AM

I don't claim I know its not an extraction problem. Itt might be an extraction problem,BUT

Its a blowback gun. What propels the slide to the rear? (The cartridge case)

If there was no extractor in the gun,the cartridge case should still come out of the chamber as the slide comes back.

If there was no extractor in the gun,the brass should just drop and get in the way.

If the xractor is working perfectly,it holds the spent case on the breech face until the ejector kicks it out.

If the ejector does nothing,the brass stays on the breech face and is reinserted into the chamber.

I'm not saying I know whats going on,but I offer you something to think about.

If,during firing,the brass stays fully seated in the chamber,there is no reason for the slide to come back

March 10, 2020, 12:50 PM	#1
Swifty Morgan Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2018 Location: FL Posts: 467	Colt Woodsman Doesn't Extract I'm shooting my Woodsman for the first time, and it's not even trying to extract. Can anyone tell me what the most likely cause is? __________________ People who think their guns shoot better than they do must not be shooting much rimfire.

March 10, 2020, 01:02 PM	#2
Swifty Morgan Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2018 Location: FL Posts: 467	Well, now it extracts. Weird. Wish I could delete the thread. __________________ People who think their guns shoot better than they do must not be shooting much rimfire.

March 10, 2020, 01:17 PM	#4
Swifty Morgan Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2018 Location: FL Posts: 467	The gun is from about 1950. It turns out it won't cycle Mini-mags. I just shot 9 rounds of some kind of CCI copper round nose, and they cycled. Weirder still, the accuracy from a little over 7 yards was insane. __________________ People who think their guns shoot better than they do must not be shooting much rimfire.

March 10, 2020, 04:24 PM	#7
Swifty Morgan Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2018 Location: FL Posts: 467	More weirdness: the ammo extracts when I pull the slide manually. __________________ People who think their guns shoot better than they do must not be shooting much rimfire.

March 10, 2020, 04:30 PM	#9
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	Just a cpl thoughts on .22 LR handguns.... ** Keep 'em clean: bolt face, chamber especially...generally most will not give the 200-300 round reliability that some center-fires are capable of. This is true of both revolvers as well as autos. Built up of bullet lube, lead shavings as well as burnt powder residue will quickly degrade reliability. While you don't necessarily need to clean the bore, the chamber and bullet seat need to be brushed out from time to time. For my guns: (Colt Woodsman Match Target, Colt Diamondback, S&W M18, two Ruger Single Sixes, a Smith M41, and a Ruger Standard Mkll. I also shoot with .22 LR uppers on two Sigs and a couple of my 1911's.), I use a bore snake to run through the bore once every 50 rounds. For the revolvers, I clean the chamber as well as the ejector star with a fine bristle tooth brush. And for the autos; I scrub the bolt face with the toothbrush. Lastly, I re-lube with CLP, very lightly touching up the ejector rod on revolvers and the rails on the autos. Grease on those parts will degrade reliability in my guns. This regimen has kept my guns very reliable, seldom failing to chamber or eject unless I have a defective round. HTH's Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.

March 10, 2020, 03:02 PM	#6
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Try giving the chamber a good cleaning. Don't feel bad, lately I have been shooting my Browning HP and Colt Mark IV with Ciener units. Remington ammunition works fine, with other brands I get failures to extract. ? I made a brass rod with a wooden handle to push the cases out.

March 10, 2020, 04:29 PM	#8
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,519	The Mini-Mag sholud extrct like crazy. Check ammo for extra wax od bullet tht will retrard extration. Soke the chamber with a Wooden stick cotton swab and detail with a bore brush in the chamber and chucked in a cordless drill drive and spi slowly to poli the chamber. Aalos check for a pit in the chamber that the case will fill-in during firing.

March 10, 2020, 05:24 PM	#10
Swifty Morgan Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2018 Location: FL Posts: 467	Everything seems to be fine now. I think it would have helped had I cleaned the gun before shooting it, instead of running outside like a two-year-old! The trigger on this thing is beyond belief. It makes my S&W Victory look very bad. __________________ People who think their guns shoot better than they do must not be shooting much rimfire.

March 10, 2020, 05:35 PM	#11
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,292	Give the chamber a good scrub, scrub the bore... then pull a bore snake through it every couple of bricks whether it needs it or not. Expect accuracy to fall off after cleaning until you put about 50 down range. I would not use mini mags. Try CCI SV, Aguila (standard velocity) and Blazer. These days I find CCI SV is not the magic bullet it used to be and blazer is as good for less.

March 10, 2020, 06:32 PM	#12
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	As others said, clean it thoroughly. I will add to pay particular attention to the extractor-cut in the breech end of the barrel. Clean the slide, especially the extractor parts religiously. Scrub the chamber.

March 10, 2020, 07:04 PM	#13
Swifty Morgan Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2018 Location: FL Posts: 467	This experience has changed my expectations. My new goal is 20 rounds through 1/2" at 7 yards. I think the Colt can do it if the ammunition is okay. __________________ People who think their guns shoot better than they do must not be shooting much rimfire.

March 11, 2020, 07:08 AM	#14
Metric Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2016 Posts: 339	The Woodsman is a work of art, and should be reliable with a broad spectrum of.22 loads, including mini-mag. It is very likely that the forward part of the chamber has built up a thick ring of fouling (over 70 years) that will not come out with a bore snake or brush. You may need to remove the slide to get a good look. When this happens with my 22's, I use something like a pin to systematically go around and knock off the fouling, which can be tenacious. It requires being able to see directly into the chamber. There may be an easier technique, but I don't know one.

March 11, 2020, 07:54 AM	#15
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	If the forward part of the chamber is fouled with powder residue & lead shavings, a small piece of an ALL COPPER Chore Boy wrapped around an old bore brush will make short work of the buildup. Be sure it's an ALL COPPER pad however. Most that you find in Walmart or the Dollar Store are steel pads with a copper plating...definitely not good for your bore. Another solution is the justly famous Lewis Lead Remover with the appropriate size jag. It's expensive and works no better than the Chore Boy method. Several years ago I bought a tube of ALL COPPER Chore Boy pads off Amazon...definitely a life time supply, but they were cheap and work to perfection. Best Regards, Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.

March 11, 2020, 08:45 AM	#16
Hdonly Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2013 Posts: 340	One thing I have learned in all my years of shooting (and there are many) is that a particular gun can be very picky about what ammo it likes. Some will eat anything and do well while some will only like a certain brand the best. My Ruger 10/22 doesn't care what you stick in it. My friends Marlin 60 is very picky down to only one or two brands. It's just a gun thing.

March 11, 2020, 09:09 AM	#17
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	There is a point wher older Woodsmans should not be used with hi vel 22's. I seem to remember something about smooth vs serrated mainspring housing or something.Its a memory from around 1970. Research should turn it up. IMO,lose the stingers and mini mags an shoot standard velocity. The gun is a 70 year old fine pistol. Intuitively,the extractor seems a place to look...maybe.Might the chamber mouth be peened b dry firiring? Sometimes the extractor works fine,it holds the empty on th breech and puts it right back in the chamber. That would be "Failure to eject" Inspect the ejector. The gun could be short stroking. Then the ejection would not happen. Is the gun clean and lubed? Try a little Break Free CLP. Do you hold the gun very gently? Firm up your grip a bit. Handshake firm. That's a sweet,very desirable pistol. Lucky you!

March 11, 2020, 10:43 AM	#18
Metric Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2016 Posts: 339	Definitely a good idea to double check the chamber for dry-fire peening. The standard velocity / high velocity transition took place in the early 1930's, and was simply a matter of Colt heat treating certain parts -- it's not a matter of the steel getting old and feeble in its retirement years. A Woodsman from 1950 should be completely fine with mini-mags.

March 11, 2020, 12:09 PM	#19
Swifty Morgan Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2018 Location: FL Posts: 467	It turns out I was wrong about the date of manufacture. It's more like 1976. __________________ People who think their guns shoot better than they do must not be shooting much rimfire.

March 11, 2020, 12:42 PM	#20
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...The Mini-Mag should..." Yep. They're a 40 grain, gilded lead, round nose at 1235 FPS MV. However, .22's being .22's, it's not entirely unusual for any of 'em to dislike a particular brand or load. As mentioned, some of 'em will only cycle with particular brands of ammo. The Smith 41 is notorious for that. Mine only works properly with Remington Target and the old no longer available IVI standard velocity. It works with HV stuff too, the 41 being used by U.S. hunters, but I never bothered testing with that. As always, you should start with a really good bath. Then you must try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo your pistol will both shoot well and cycle the action. The price of said ammo means nothing. "...Well, now it extracts. Weird..." .22's will do that too. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

March 11, 2020, 12:50 PM	#21
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,292	I didn't mean to suggest that there was anything dangerous about a Woodsman shooting MiniMags. MiniMags are not very accurate compared to the subsonic "standard" mid-grade ammunition. I have yet to see a rabbit or squirrel that can tell the difference between what kind of .22 rimfire bullet they get hit with (other than the Paco-ized semi-wadcutters and the tool is too dear for me to buy) CCI Stingers have a longer case than regular, so if there is crud in the chamber or it's a tight match chamber- those can be sticky. As people said, a really good cleaning is in order... careful chamber scrub with copper chore boy and careful attention to the extractor. I really am serious... only clean the bore every 1,000 rounds. I clean the breach area with a soft patch and q tip every couple hundred rounds. A .22 target pistol truly gains accuracy as the barrel "seasons".. so don't scrub your accuracy away. From a sandbag, your goal of half inch groups can be done at 50'.

March 12, 2020, 10:40 AM	#22
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	I don't claim I know its not an extraction problem. Itt might be an extraction problem,BUT Its a blowback gun. What propels the slide to the rear? (The cartridge case) If there was no extractor in the gun,the cartridge case should still come out of the chamber as the slide comes back. If there was no extractor in the gun,the brass should just drop and get in the way. If the xractor is working perfectly,it holds the spent case on the breech face until the ejector kicks it out. If the ejector does nothing,the brass stays on the breech face and is reinserted into the chamber. I'm not saying I know whats going on,but I offer you something to think about. If,during firing,the brass stays fully seated in the chamber,there is no reason for the slide to come back