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Old May 14, 2017, 12:24 PM   #1
Dr Big Bird PhD
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New Resident of GA looking to make a Purchase

Hi TFL,

I recently moved to Georgia from California for 6-8 months regarding specific project I am on and would like to purchase a firearm for home safety. I have been a long-time firearm owner from when I was still living in Texas, California, and would like to get one while I am in Georgia as well. Owning a firearm in the home has something that my father has instilled in me, and especially when my girlfriend comes to visit, I insist on having a gun available for protection.
The last bit of prefacing is that I do not currently have a GA state driver's license.

The specific questions I have are below:

If I make an online purchase or arrange a private transfer:
-Do I need a GA license to receive an FFL transfer, and does it matter if it comes from in-state or out of state?
-Do I need a GA license to make the private purchase of a used firearm in person?

Now, let's assume that I have a GA driver's license and wish to transfer to the firearm back to CA at the end of my project:
-If I am making the FFL transfer back to myself in CA, what states will I need their respective state license for, and how should I go about this?
-Since I will be moving back to CA, would it simply be better to sell the firearm at the end of my stay here?
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Old May 14, 2017, 12:32 PM   #2
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I am sure there is a state agency you could contact for all the information you need..
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Old May 14, 2017, 12:35 PM   #3
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I would call your local sheriffs to find out your laws for both CA and GA...at the very least they can point you to the right person to call if they can't answer your questions

I do a lot of travel and have moved for short periods many times...Usually, when I do this I am just able to bring my current guns with me (Obviously depends on state laws).

For example, when I lived in PA and moved to VA for 5 months, I just brought my guns. If I wanted to buy a gun, I had to buy it in PA and bring it to VA. I could also use my CCW from PA for VA. Now I am in NC and again could just bring my guns with me. Once I got my NC license, I could buy guns in NC.

So why not just bring your CA guns to GA? Do you need to register guns you bring to GA? I know a number of states do not...but MD/NJ did for example and I could never bring my guns there. If it is legal, I would just buy a gun/guns in CA and bring them to GA. Otherwise, if you get your GA license make sure they are CA compliant and go through whatever process CA requires when you bring them back or just sell them used but I imagine you would lose money doing that. I have never had to do a FFL to bring my guns to another state or register them or anything like that. But I have never dealt with CA either and I know they are more strict. I know when I lived in NJ I didn't even try to bring my guns with me.
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Old May 14, 2017, 04:17 PM   #4
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You can buy long guns in another state that's not your actual residency.
But it has to be from a genuine dealer, not an individual unless the sale goes through a dealer.
There's also additional legal considerations concerning the legality of the type of firearm in both your home state as well as the state of purchase.
For that reason alone, many dealers won't want to get involved, especially with a potential buyer from restrictive states like California.
Unfortunately handguns are verboten.
On the other hand you could go ahead and establish Georgia residency, get a Georgia drivers license and stay there, instead of going back to California.
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Old May 14, 2017, 06:09 PM   #5
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Long guns purchased at a local gun shop aren't a problem. Handguns are a no-no. I can't say about say about internet purchases and transfers. I'd ask a local gun shop if they would do it. In GA gun prices are usually low enough that it doesn't make sense to buy online and even fool with a transfer unless you are buying something no longer in production and buying used is the only alternative.

Getting it back to California is a California problem. Georgia doesn't care what you do with it.
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Old May 15, 2017, 07:32 AM   #6
g.willikers
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Careful.
From the horse's mouth:

"May an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA in any State?
Generally, a person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State. Exceptions include the acquisition pursuant to a lawful bequest, or an over–the–counter acquisition of a rifle or shotgun from a licensee where the transaction is allowed by the purchaser’s State of residence and the licensee’s State of business. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
[18 U.S.C 922(a)(3); 27 CFR 478.29]"
Unless, of course, the AFT changes its mind.
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Old May 15, 2017, 08:01 AM   #7
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Quote:
Long guns purchased at a local gun shop aren't a problem.
Depends on the long gun when dealing with states like CA, NY, etc.
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Old May 15, 2017, 04:26 PM   #8
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IF you retain your California residency, then you may not legally purchase a handgun in Georgia. IF you become a Georgia resident, then you can buy anything you want.
If you legally acquire a firearm in Georgia (per the above) you may bring it to California when you move here with the following restrictions: 1. You cannot bring any 10+ mags. (So you should only buy a gun that has 10 round magazines available, or a gun with a lower capacity.) The handgun does NOT need to be on the roster, and you do not have to process a transfer through an FFL. 2. You are required to report the gun to California DOJ within 60 days of arrival. there is a form and a filing fee ( $19 if memory serves). They WILL do a background check on you at that time.

There are further restrictions on AR and AK style weapons, and it is recommended that you not even try to bring on in UNLESS it complies with California regulations as a "featureless" or otherwise exempt rifle or pistol. the rules as to that have not yet been determined, although a new set of regulations has been prepared and filed for review but is not available for public inspection or comment at this time.

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Old May 15, 2017, 06:02 PM   #9
dogtown tom
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Good grief.
There's more than a few posts that show a horrible understanding of Federal gun laws. Some of you need to stop posting until you've spent thirty minutes at atf.gov reading up. Your advice, while well intentioned, is in some cases going to cause someone to commit a felony.


Quote:
Dr Big Bird PhD ....The specific questions I have are below:

If I make an online purchase or arrange a private transfer:
-Do I need a GA license to receive an FFL transfer, and does it matter if it comes from in-state or out of state?
All interstate transfers of firearms require that the transfer go through a licensed dealer. There are exceptions for the return of a repaired firearm and bequests.
Federal law says you need a government issued photo ID that shows your current residence address. If you do not have a GA drivers license, you can use a combination of government issued documents to meet the requirement. Be aware that some dealers don't bother reading the instructions on the Form 4473 where it explains this.

If you show up at a gun store outside of California its likely the dealer will refuse the sale......because California law prohibits the direct transfer of a firearm to a California resident while outside California. With a CA drivers license the dealer will assume you are actually a CA resident.



Quote:
-Do I need a GA license to make the private purchase of a used firearm in person?
Federal law doesn't address ID requirements for private party firearm transactions.



Quote:
Now, let's assume that I have a GA driver's license and wish to transfer to the firearm back to CA at the end of my project:
-If I am making the FFL transfer back to myself in CA, what states will I need their respective state license for, and how should I go about this?
Most states don't require or even have a "state license". Before attempting to return to California with a firearm, you need to verify that it is legal to possess in CA.



Quote:
-Since I will be moving back to CA, would it simply be better to sell the firearm at the end of my stay here?
If it is a prohibited firearm you may have no choice.



Quote:
NHSHOOTER I am sure there is a state agency you could contact for all the information you need..
I would bet that not a single state agency in the fifty states knows the firearm laws of the other 49 states....and why would they?


Quote:
g.willikers You can buy long guns in another state that's not your actual residency.
But it has to be from a genuine dealer, not an individual unless the sale goes through a dealer.
There's also additional legal considerations concerning the legality of the type of firearm in both your home state as well as the state of purchase.
For that reason alone, many dealers won't want to get involved, especially with a potential buyer from restrictive states like California.
Unfortunately handguns are verboten.
On the other hand you could go ahead and establish Georgia residency, get a Georgia drivers license and stay there, instead of going back to California.
1. OP is a resident of GA because that is where he is making his home.
2. For the purposes of acquiring firearms under Federal law, there is no "establishing residency".......if you live in a state with the intent to make it your home you are a resident of that state. See ATF Ruling 2010-6 State of Residency.
3. OP can buy any firearm of any type while he is living in GA because he is a GA resident. It matters not one bit where he votes, pays taxes or where his DL is from.
4. GA law (as in many states) requires a new resident to obtain a GA drivers license within 30 days.




Quote:
jmr40 Long guns purchased at a local gun shop aren't a problem. Handguns are a no-no.
You would be wrong. If the OP is a bonafide resident of GA he can buy the same firearms as any other resident of GA.




Quote:
62coltnavy IF you retain your California residency, then you may not legally purchase a handgun in Georgia. IF you become a Georgia resident, then you can buy anything you want.
Well, no.
For the purposes of acquiring a firearm, you are a resident of the state where you make your home. ATF's interpretation of "residency" is so broad and liberal we should thank them. You don't "retain" residency, you don't "become" a resident......by merely living in a state with the intent to make it your home YOU ARE a resident.



Quote:
If you legally acquire a firearm in Georgia (per the above) you may bring it to California when you move here with the following restrictions: 1. You cannot bring any 10+ mags. (So you should only buy a gun that has 10 round magazines available, or a gun with a lower capacity.) The handgun does NOT need to be on the roster, and you do not have to process a transfer through an FFL. 2. You are required to report the gun to California DOJ within 60 days of arrival. there is a form and a filing fee ( $19 if memory serves). They WILL do a background check on you at that time.
Are you sure? 'Cause you were flat wrong on residency.

ATF Ruling 2010-6 State of Residence
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ru...dence/download
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Old May 16, 2017, 07:35 AM   #10
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From adamBomb above:

"I know a number of states do not...but ...NJ did for example and I could never bring my guns there. .......[snip]... I know when I lived in NJ I didn't even try to bring my guns with me." __________________


That's just not accurate at all, unless the gun(s) are illegal to possess in the state (ie: 'assault rifles' and guns with 15+ capacity magazines). New Jersey has no laws against moving to the state and bringing your guns with you.
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Old May 21, 2017, 01:35 PM   #11
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I moved to Nevada recently from Cali. Bought a few long guns since then.
Had to supplement my ca dl with a government form showing address. Vehicle registration.

For whatever reason, it takes 3 days for them to run the BG check. No same day purchases of long guns for me until or unless I get a Nevada license.

The BG check paperwork specifically States what I'd is and or paperwork is required. I think it's section 18.
Not sure if that paperwork is the same nation wide. It is a federal BG check...

Good local gun shop should be able to answer these questions too. May not need to talk with the supposed protecting and servers...
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Old May 22, 2017, 08:15 PM   #12
62coltnavy
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Well dog town tom, I don't think I am wrong. I gave a qualified answer that specifically addresses your claimed "error." The OP did not say that he'd become a resident of Georgia, only that he was there for six months on assignment. This at least suggests that he intends to keep his residency in California. Typically, you have only one residence, and can only acquire a new one if you give up the old one. You cannot have a "temporary residence" for the purpose of a residency statute in another state under most circumstances.

And yeah, I am right about the handguns too. You can bring the gun, just not the mags if they are greater than 10 round capacity. However many guns have available "reduced capacity" mags available. You are required to register (by mail) that gun or guns when you move here. The only thing that this rule does NOT apply to is AR/AK pattern rifles.They cannot be brought into the state unless they comply with the California Assault Weapons laws. Which pretty much means that it has to have a featureless configuration (fixed stock, no flash hider (brakes are legal), no vertical foregrip (slanted grips are legal), no pistol grip, and at least 30" in length. And no mags of greater than 10 rounds capacity.
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Old May 22, 2017, 09:51 PM   #13
dogtown tom
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Quote:
62coltnavy Well dog town tom, I don't think I am wrong.
Then provide a citation from Federal law/ATF regulations that proves your point.
I'll save you the trouble. Here it is again:
ATF Ruling 2010-6 State of Residence
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ru...dence/download


Quote:
I gave a qualified answer that specifically addresses your claimed "error." The OP did not say that he'd become a resident of Georgia, only that he was there for six months on assignment. This at least suggests that he intends to keep his residency in California.
AGAIN, the ATF Ruling above says differently. For the purposes of acquiring a firearm, your "state of residence" is where you make your home. Since the OP is currently living in GA....he a resident of GA WHILE HE LIVES THERE.




Quote:
Typically, you have only one residence, and can only acquire a new one if you give up the old one. You cannot have a "temporary residence" for the purpose of a residency statute in another state under most circumstances.
Nonsense. This confirms that you haven't read a shred of Federal law or ATF regulations. In fact, a college student from Dallas going to school at Univ of OK is a resident of OK while he living there, and a resident of Texas when he comes home for summer vacation.

At no point does anyone have to "give up" residency.
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Old May 23, 2017, 12:47 PM   #14
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A person can only hold one state residence. Since you are only in GA for nine months, you are not and could not be a registered voter in GA and your permanent home is in CA you are only a visitor to GA and not a resident.
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Old May 23, 2017, 05:35 PM   #15
dogtown tom
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Quote:
ShootistPRS A person can only hold one state residence. Since you are only in GA for nine months, you are not and could not be a registered voter in GA and your permanent home is in CA you are only a visitor to GA and not a resident.
Oh good grief.
You are wholly and completely wrong.
Maybe 900+ posts in less than five months mean you don't read.


READ THE REGS POSTED ABOVE!!!!
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Old May 23, 2017, 06:13 PM   #16
62coltnavy
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Maybe YOU should, dogtown:

A person’s “State of residence” is defined by regulation in 27 CFR 478.11 as “the State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in aState with the intention of making a home in that State.” Ownership of a home or land within a given State is not sufficient, by itself, to establish a State of residence. However, ownership of a home or land within a particular State is not required to establish presence and intent to make a home in that State. Furthermore, temporary travel, such as short-term
stays, vacations, or other transient acts in a State are not sufficient to establish a State of residence because the individual demonstrates no intention of making a home in that State.


So if I go to Georgia but maintain a permanent residence in California, I am NOT a resident of Georgia. If I am in another state temporarily but KNOW that I do NOT intend to make it my HOME (no matter how long my hiatus may be), I CANNOT legally purchase handguns in that state.

There is an exception for people who have two residences; the ATF considers someone to be a resident of the state when actually residing there. The question is likely fact specific. "The intention of making a home in the state must be demonstrated to a Federal firearms licensee by presenting valid identification documents, Such documents include, but are not limited to, driver's licenses, voter registration, tax records, or vehicle registration."
Under this holding, if the OP keeps his California license and vehicle registration, and does not register as a Georgia voter, he cannot demonstrate that he intends to make Georgia his "home."

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Old May 23, 2017, 06:39 PM   #17
dogtown tom
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Quote:
62coltnavy Maybe YOU should, dogtown:
I have....but you need to read it again. And this time read ALL OF IT.




Quote:
A person’s “State of residence” is defined by regulation in 27 CFR 478.11 as “the State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State.” Ownership of a home or land within a given State is not sufficient, by itself, to establish a State of residence. However, ownership of a home or land within a particular State is not required to establish presence and intent to make a home in that State. Furthermore, temporary travel, such as short-term stays, vacations, or other transient acts in a State are not sufficient to establish a State of residence because the individual demonstrates no intention of making a home in that State.
Yep, that's PART of Ruling 2010-6.

See the part in bolded italics?
All the OP needs to do is provide government issued documentation that shows his name and current residence address in GA.....and he can LEGALLY acquire any type of firearm.

Did you read this at the bottom of the page?
Quote:
Held further, the intention of making a home in a State must be demonstrated to a Federal firearms licensee by presenting valid identification documents. Such documents include, but are not limited to, driver’s licenses, voter registration, tax records, or vehicle registration.
"Temporary"? ATF doesn't define it. It could be every weekend (as in a college student) The OP states quite clearly that he is staying in GA FOR SIX FREAKING MONTHS!!!!! That isn't "...temporary travel,....short-term stays, vacations, or other transient acts".




Quote:
So if I go to Georgia but maintain a permanent residence in California, I am NOT a resident of Georgia.
WRONG AGAIN! I don't know if it's a reading comprehension problem or simply selective reading.....but you failed to read and understand the following that you DIDN'T quote:
Quote:
......ATF has previously addressed the eligibility of individuals to acquire firearms who maintain residences in more than one State. Federal regulations at 27 CFR 478.11 (definition of State of Residence), Example 2, clarify that a U.S. citizen with homes in two States may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a firearm in that State. See also ATF Publication 5300.4 (2005), Question and Answer B12, page 179. Similarly, in ATF Ruling 80-21 (ATFB 1980-4, 25), ATF held that, during the time college students actually reside in a college dormitory or at an off-campus location, they are considered residents of the State where the on-campus or off-campus housing is located.....
Get it?
For the purposes of acquiring a firearm, a person can be a resident of MULTIPLE STATES. So much for your theories huh?

Being that the title of this thread is "New Resident of GA looking to make a Purchase" I'm pretty darn sure the OP knows he is making his home there.....dontcha think?



Quote:
If I am in another state temporarily but KNOW that I do NOT intend to make it my HOME (no matter how long my hiatus may be), I CANNOT legally purchase handguns in that state.
But that isn't the argument is it?


If you choose to not provide the documents that prove your intent you can't purchase firearms other than rifles or shotguns......but that isn't in question. What YOU consider your "state of residence" isn't what ATF considers as your state of residence.



Quote:
There is an exception for people who have two residences; the ATF considers someone to be a resident of the state when actually residing there. The question is likely fact specific. "The intention of making a home in the state must be demonstrated to a Federal firearms licensee by presenting valid identification documents, Such documents include, but are not limited to, driver's licenses, voter registration, tax records, or vehicle registration."
Under this holding, if the OP keeps his California license and vehicle registration, and does not register as a Georgia voter, he cannot demonstrate that he intends to make Georgia his "home."
Again, wrong (see the pattern?)
Voter registration is not and never has been a requirement to acquire a firearm. There are numerous government issued documents that can be used to show residency: a state hunting or fishing license, a utility bill from a government entity, a letter addressed to you from any Federal, state or local government and dozens more. All that needs to be on that document is the name of the buyer and his address in that state.

You would know this if you took the time to read the regs and heck, it's even in the instructions on the FORM 4473 that no one bothers to read.
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Old May 23, 2017, 06:39 PM   #18
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What constitutes a "short-term stay"? 9 hours? 9 days? 9 weeks? 9 months? 9 years?
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Old May 23, 2017, 06:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
FITASC What constitutes a "short-term stay"? 9 hours? 9 days? 9 weeks? 9 months? 9 years?
Only ATF knows.
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Old May 27, 2017, 04:07 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 62coltnavy
The OP did not say that he'd become a resident of Georgia, only that he was there for six months on assignment. This at least suggests that he intends to keep his residency in California. Typically, you have only one residence, and can only acquire a new one if you give up the old one. You cannot have a "temporary residence" for the purpose of a residency statute in another state under most circumstances.
This comment shows a complete misunderstanding of the federal rules for residency as they pertain to the transfer of a firearm. Dogtown is completely right here. It constantly amazes me how difficult it is for people to understand what residency means when buying a firearm. Are you making a home in a state? Then you're a resident of that state and not a resident of any other state. That's it. It's not hard. The ATF even specifies that if you make a home in multiple states, then you're a resident of the state where you're currently living at that time, and during those times you're not a resident of those other states, even if you own or rent homes in those other states. The only exemption I'm aware of is for military members who are stationed at a base in one state but live off-base in another state.

People constantly try to use other unrelated definitions of residency when determining the residency requirements for the transfer of firearms, and it leads to the kind of confusion that 62coltnavy is having. But when it comes to transferring a firearm, ignore all the the other definitions of residency that are used for other purposes and just focus on one simple thing: Where are you currently living at this moment?

Now, where is the line between temporary travel and making a home? That's a harder question. That said, lawyers on TFL like Frank Ettin have made it clear that making a home in a state for months at a time doesn't usually constitute "temporary travel". And the ATF agrees with that; they're very clear on the subject.

Usually the things one does to indicate temporary travel are pretty standard: Are you staying at a hotel? Are you on a vacation? If you're on a work trip, is it just a few-day stay to meet with out-of-state work contacts? I'm fairly certain those situations would tend to indicate that your stay falls under the definition of "temporary travel".

But if you're staying in a rented apartment or a house, you have a local job, and you're doing all the other things that one would expect of someone who lives in a location, you're going to probably fall under the definition of residency since you're clearing making a home there.

I work at an FFL here in Washington. Several times a week I get a customer who says something like, "I'm not a resident of Washington. I live here, but I still have my other state's ID so I'm a resident of that state." No, you're actually a resident of WA if you live here, and if you put your out-of-state address on the 4473 while you're living here then that's a felony.
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Old May 27, 2017, 04:37 AM   #21
xandi
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Welcome to the free state of Georgia
You should stay we have all the fun items, hi-cap magazines ar15s with no bullet buttons and so fourth
You should stay(;
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Old May 27, 2017, 07:50 AM   #22
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A big problem with buying guns "out of state" is the dealers.
Many don't trust their knowledge of the laws enough to want to sell a gun to anyone who doesn't have a conventional proof of residency, usually a drivers license.
Just from this conversation, can you blame them?
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Old May 27, 2017, 06:03 PM   #23
Bluecthomas
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Just a question on those laws, assuming I win the lottery and buy a house in two states, and a car for the garage in both of them, complete with registration showing an address within that state, I could then buy guns in both?

I can't imagine not having a gun in the house. And traveling with a gun everywhere I go can be difficult.

Add in the simple fact that one house would be in comm... I mean California, with it's ridiculous laws on mag cap which I'm quickly growing to hate as a current NV resident, traveling with a gun could be a felony just for possession of large mags...
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Old May 27, 2017, 07:16 PM   #24
Theohazard
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Originally Posted by Bluecthomas
Just a question on those laws, assuming I win the lottery and buy a house in two states, and a car for the garage in both of them, complete with registration showing an address within that state, I could then buy guns in both?
Yes, the ATF specifically addresses this situation. Say -- for example -- you have a house in WA and also one in OR. While you're living in your house in WA you're treated as a WA resident and not an OR resident when buying a firearm. In fact, if you put your OR address on the 4473 during a period where you're actually living at your WA address, then that constitutes lying about your residency on the 4473.

ATF Ruling 2010-6 that Tom linked to addresses this. Also, the instructions on the back pages of the 4473 address it also:

Quote:
If the transferee/buyer has two States of residence, the transferee/ buyer should list his/her current residence address in response to
question 2 (e.g., if the transferee/buyer is purchasing a firearm while staying at his/her weekend home in State X, he/she should list the address in State X in response to question 2).
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Old May 27, 2017, 08:54 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluecthomas
Just a question on those laws, assuming I win the lottery and buy a house in two states, and a car for the garage in both of them, complete with registration showing an address within that state, I could then buy guns in both?
Theohazard has already given you the link to the answer. You don't even need to have a car registered in each state. If you own houses in two states, as far as the BATFE is concerned you are a resident of whichever one you are living in at the instant of time in question. Yes, you can [legally] buy guns in both states.
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