Smell of pyrodex in the morning - Page 2

Gbro · July 27, 2008, 07:59 PM

I had a group of students shooting for qualification Friday. I brought my 1858 Pietta along for "me" while waiting for students to show. Well, They used up all my powder and went away with a smile after shooting better (in almost every case) with the C&B. And I only shoot BP. I have some of those imitation powders and will be trading them away at the 1st opportunity!

Oquirrh · July 27, 2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

It could be the angle in which the tip of the trigger & the sear of the hammer have in relation to each other too.

I shot the Uberti '58 again today just to confirm the trigger is that light. It was and after two cylinders, I gave up. I had two shots go off when I was positioning my finger on the trigger!

I tore it apart this evening and examined it through a loupe magnifier. Sloppy machining was abundant. First, the angle was barely 90 degrees to the hammer pivot point. But a burr on one end of the sear surface was all that was keeping the hammer from slipping. That explains why the pull changed so quickly over about 100 rounds.

With a lot of reassembling and checking, I filed/polished an angle into the sear surface.

Now, I've got a 2 pound trigger. BUT I ALSO HAVE A LITTLE CREEP

. But I think it will be unnoticable when firing freehand.

I also may have removed the hardening, I'll just have to see how it wears.

Hawg · July 28, 2008, 12:06 AM

If you filed it it wasn't hardened to start with. You can get some kasenit from Brownells and harden it.

mykeal · July 28, 2008, 05:49 AM

Hawg's right. If you were able to file a new angle on the trigger the hardening is gone. My experience is that it's very shallow at best, and it sounds like yours may not have had any at all - 100 rounds should have just started breaking it in, not changing it's pull.

Get some Kasenit or a new trigger. That one is shot.

Raider2000 · July 28, 2008, 07:30 AM

I agree 100% about the hardness of your hammer since you filed it.

What I would suggest is if your 58' is timed right & the lock up is good & with just deepening the sear on the hammer improved the trigger engagement but not have it engage too early "sooner than the bolt stopping the cylinder" then get some ultra fine stones to smooth up the sear but not take off any more metal than necessary to make it glass smooth, then get some Kasenit & heat treat your hammer at the sear.

It's a two step process.
(1) Heat the part to where it is a glowing cherry red hot, dunk the hammer into the Kasenit to coat the sear area of the part but no where else "at least no more than you want to show when it is assembled because this will take all color from the part & give you a greyish case hardening when done" then reheat the part to a cherry red glow then dunk it in a 50/50 of Water & oil to harden it.
(2) once the part is cool, reheat it to a slight yellowish glow but no more than that "about 900* F" then let the part sit to cool on it's own.

After that your hammer will be hardened & tempered perfectly for years of use.

Oquirrh · July 28, 2008, 11:19 AM

At $42 for a new hammer, it looks like Kasenit is the way to go. But what a hassle. I expected the Uberti Cimarron line would have better QC. It didn't look like the original owner had been fiddling, so it must have come soft from Italy.

BTW, does the pretty case-hardening color on parts mean anything functionally?

Looks like I get an education in metallurgy.

Is it possible to get Kasenit anywhere but Brownell's? I'd like to avoid the shipping hassle/cost.

Raider2000 · July 28, 2008, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oquirrh

At $42 for a new hammer, it looks like Kasenit is the way to go. But what a hassle. I expected the Uberti Cimarron line would have better QC. It didn't look like the original owner had been fiddling, so it must have come soft from Italy.

BTW, does the pretty case-hardening color on parts mean anything functionally?

Looks like I get an education in metallurgy. Is it possible to get Kasenit anywhere but Brownell's? I'd like to avoid the shipping hassle/cost.
Today 08:30 AM

Dixie Gunworks has a hammer for a Remington reproduction for $17.00 but as to how much fitting you may need to get it to work on your Uberti is unknown, VTI has em for $42.oo...

The Color Case Hardening works the same way as the Case Hardening procedure with Kasenit but the materials used in the process is what gives it that nice coloring.

You can get a small ammount of Kasenit from Dixie Gunworks

You can also get a 1 pound can of Kasenit from
Track of the Wolf

oldwheat · July 28, 2008, 03:25 PM

Oquirrh: PM me... I can let you have some Casenite...

Oquirrh · July 28, 2008, 04:11 PM

I PMed you.

FYI, a hammer is $45 direct from Cimarron.

I was dry firing the Uberti '58 (put a roll of leather under the hammer) and the trigger pull feels pretty nice right now. So, I think I'll make a sacrifice to Vulcan and go the DIY Kasenit route.

Thanks, everyone, for the info and onward into the fog.

oldwheat · July 28, 2008, 04:45 PM

Using Casenite is a 'piece of cake' .. The hard part is disassembling the gun in the first place..

July 27, 2008, 07:59 PM	#26
Gbro Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,084	I had a group of students shooting for qualification Friday. I brought my 1858 Pietta along for "me" while waiting for students to show. Well, They used up all my powder and went away with a smile after shooting better (in almost every case) with the C&B. And I only shoot BP. I have some of those imitation powders and will be trading them away at the 1st opportunity! __________________ Gbro CGVS For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, But to us who are being saved, It Is The Power Of God. 1Corinthians 1-18

July 28, 2008, 11:19 AM	#31
Oquirrh Senior Member Join Date: May 5, 2008 Location: Utah Posts: 188	Sheesh. At $42 for a new hammer, it looks like Kasenit is the way to go. But what a hassle. I expected the Uberti Cimarron line would have better QC. It didn't look like the original owner had been fiddling, so it must have come soft from Italy. BTW, does the pretty case-hardening color on parts mean anything functionally? Looks like I get an education in metallurgy. Is it possible to get Kasenit anywhere but Brownell's? I'd like to avoid the shipping hassle/cost.

July 28, 2008, 04:11 PM	#34
Oquirrh Senior Member Join Date: May 5, 2008 Location: Utah Posts: 188	Tnx OldWheat! I PMed you. FYI, a hammer is $45 direct from Cimarron. I was dry firing the Uberti '58 (put a roll of leather under the hammer) and the trigger pull feels pretty nice right now. So, I think I'll make a sacrifice to Vulcan and go the DIY Kasenit route. Thanks, everyone, for the info and onward into the fog.

July 28, 2008, 12:06 AM	#28
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	If you filed it it wasn't hardened to start with. You can get some kasenit from Brownells and harden it.

July 28, 2008, 05:49 AM	#29
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Hawg's right. If you were able to file a new angle on the trigger the hardening is gone. My experience is that it's very shallow at best, and it sounds like yours may not have had any at all - 100 rounds should have just started breaking it in, not changing it's pull. Get some Kasenit or a new trigger. That one is shot.

July 28, 2008, 07:30 AM	#30
Raider2000 Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 719	I agree 100% about the hardness of your hammer since you filed it. What I would suggest is if your 58' is timed right & the lock up is good & with just deepening the sear on the hammer improved the trigger engagement but not have it engage too early "sooner than the bolt stopping the cylinder" then get some ultra fine stones to smooth up the sear but not take off any more metal than necessary to make it glass smooth, then get some Kasenit & heat treat your hammer at the sear. It's a two step process. (1) Heat the part to where it is a glowing cherry red hot, dunk the hammer into the Kasenit to coat the sear area of the part but no where else "at least no more than you want to show when it is assembled because this will take all color from the part & give you a greyish case hardening when done" then reheat the part to a cherry red glow then dunk it in a 50/50 of Water & oil to harden it. (2) once the part is cool, reheat it to a slight yellowish glow but no more than that "about 900* F" then let the part sit to cool on it's own. After that your hammer will be hardened & tempered perfectly for years of use.

July 28, 2008, 03:25 PM	#33
oldwheat Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2005 Location: Dorton's Station Posts: 105	Oquirrh: PM me... I can let you have some Casenite...

July 28, 2008, 04:45 PM	#35
oldwheat Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2005 Location: Dorton's Station Posts: 105	Using Casenite is a 'piece of cake' .. The hard part is disassembling the gun in the first place..