Survival/Prepper Caliber Rifle

[stonewall50]

I had a discussion about this. And a lot of people were bringing up the AR15 and AK. But after the discussion...I think the best CALIBER choice is a .308 Winchester. The 5.56 and .223 are just too underpowered as a hunting round. Where a .308 will reliable kill any game in North America. And it is still pretty easy to find. Not sure how y’all feel. But as far as the caliber discussion goes...do you think there is a superior caliber?

Keeping in mind availability and strength as the rifle is more than just self defense against people, but a hunting rifle as well. I also heard, and correct me if I’m wrong, but that you can shoot a 7.62x51 out of the .308 Winchester. I don’t know about that though.


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[Pathfinder45]

The best survival caliber is more likely to be 22 Long Rifle.

[stonewall50]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder45

The best survival caliber is more likely to be 22 Long Rifle.

How are you going to use that if you need to defend yourself or your family? Sure. You could put lots of small game on the table, but if worst comes to worst you will likely be severely outgunned.


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[jmr40]

In a survival situation you're far more likely to shoot small game for food. A 22 is much better at that and will still take down deer size game at close range just fine. The then worlds record grizzly was taken in Canada back in the 1950's with a 22. That record no longer stands.

A 22, especially from a rifle is more than adequate for SD from human threats.

If you want to go up to a centerfire there is no reason to go bigger than 223/5.56. Survival is not hunting. No one is concerned about fair chase hunting, or taking ethical shots in that situation.

I wouldn't recommend typical FMJ or lightweight rounds intended for varmints. But 223 with bullets designed for big game hunting will take any game in North America as well as 308. The range is much more limited.

I chose 308 or larger for hunting because I don't want to handicap myself with limited ranges.

[agtman]

I had a discussion about this. And a lot of people were bringing up the AR15 and AK. But after the discussion...I think the best CALIBER choice is a .308 Winchester. The 5.56 and .223 are just too underpowered as a hunting round. Where a .308 will reliable kill any game in North America. And it is still pretty easy to find. Not sure how y’all feel. But as far as the caliber discussion goes...do you think there is a superior caliber?
Keeping in mind availability and strength as the rifle is more than just self defense against people, but a hunting rifle as well. I also heard, and correct me if I’m wrong, but that you can shoot a 7.62x51 out of the .308 Winchester. I don’t know about that though.

I've had these discussions before, and while there's room for reasonable disagreement as to priority of order, it basically comes down to the best "all-around"/"do everything" cartridge.

Usually I find .308/7.62 and .223/5.56 tied for first ...

.22l.r. is next, with 7.62x39 and .30-06 closing at the end.

Any real-world survival/prepper scenario is unlikely to devolve into relying on, or having access to, only one cartridge or caliber, at least if we're talking about rifles, since folks tend to stockpile and hoard, which will inevitably give way to trade with like-minded individuals.

[lamarw]

One gun does not fit all situations. What is your location? In Alabama, I will not face large bears. I will not be hunting Elk, Moose or other large game. There are a lot of game birds in my area to include quail, doves, and turkey. A shotgun would be handy. There are deer, hogs, rabbits and squirrels.

I will protect my home which is in the country vs. urban scenario. I will not give it up since it is my shelter and defensive position. It also has land for gardening since fruit and vegetables are needed for survival and not just meat. There is also wood for burning to provide for cooking and heat. It is also located on a large lake. This will be a major source for food and water. My fishing tackle will put a lot of food on the table.

A real life survival situation many of our parents and grandparents lived through was the Great Depression. Many had to defend their stock such as milk cows, beef cows, hogs, chickens and etc. Wild game became scarces in the forest from over hunting for food. Many folks lived simply off milk from a single milk cow and their gardens.

Folks in towns and cities will have to develop their individual survival plans as to how they can commute to where food is located to forage and bring back to their families.

It seems most of us simply want to think in terms of firearms and in a remote wilderness situation. It will be an almost impossible situation to survive under.

[Buzzcook]

I'd say a combo 20ga/.22lr would be a good survival gun. That and practice shooting.

Depending on where you are surviving a pocket fishing kit might be more useful than a gun.

The chances of being in a survival situation where you would need to hunt for game is vanishingly small.

The biggest danger is getting lost. So a course in orienteering might be in order.

End of the world speculation is discouraged by the mods.

[stonewall50]

Originally Posted by jmr40

In a survival situation you're far more likely to shoot small game for food. A 22 is much better at that and will still take down deer size game at close range just fine. The then worlds record grizzly was taken in Canada back in the 1950's with a 22. That record no longer stands.



A 22, especially from a rifle is more than adequate for SD from human threats.



If you want to go up to a centerfire there is no reason to go bigger than 223/5.56. Survival is not hunting. No one is concerned about fair chase hunting, or taking ethical shots in that situation.



I wouldn't recommend typical FMJ or lightweight rounds intended for varmints. But 223 with bullets designed for big game hunting will take any game in North America as well as 308. The range is much more limited.



I chose 308 or larger for hunting because I don't want to handicap myself with limited ranges.

I have to call shenanigans. Maybe not purposeful shenanigans, but shenanigans nonetheless. The grizzly was shot by an experienced taxidermist at near point blank with multiple “insurance deductibles” paid afterwords. Perfect shot placement is great, but not always an option. And if you only get 1 round? Maybe you are taking a pig in a swamp? Or a deer at range?

I can understand the argument for a 5.56/.223, but a .22 LR isn’t just about “ethical” hunting. It is about having a caliber that has the juice behind it to perform consistently even when the shot placement isn’t dead on perfect. And that just isn’t the .22LR.


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[stonewall50]

Originally Posted by Buzzcook

I'd say a combo 20ga/.22lr would be a good survival gun. That and practice shooting.

Depending on where you are surviving a pocket fishing kit might be more useful than a gun.

The chances of being in a survival situation where you would need to hunt for game is vanishingly small.

The biggest danger is getting lost. So a course in orienteering might be in order.

End of the world speculation is discouraged by the mods.

I was unaware of that final point. Because then there is no business discussing the topic. One might as well have a handgun and a small handy shotgun or rifle. Something that shoots only people. Because even in disaster situations of insanely larger proportions...you will likely have access to food of all kinds for gathering.


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[TXAZ]

Originally Posted by lamarw

One gun does not fit all situations.

^^^^^^^^ THIS!

What works for elk in Montana is probably worthless for small game (rabbits) in the Southern US. Most people won't have the chance to hunt an elk.

A .22 probably won't phase an elk, and may or may not bring down a farmer's cow, but may get your run over by the bull.

It really depends on what you're plan of action calls for in food sustainment and personal relationships with others that may be farming but not hunting.

[MTT TL]

.300 BO for the win. Just as powerful as .30-30 in the proper loading, very quiet suppressed when you need it to be. Subsonic rounds kill small game quickly, cleanly and quietly.

[agtman]

A real life survival situation many of our parents and grandparents lived through was the Great Depression. Many had to defend their stock such as milk cows, beef cows, hogs, chickens and etc. Wild game became scarces in the forest from over hunting for food. Many folks lived simply off milk from a single milk cow and their gardens.
Folks in towns and cities will have to develop their individual survival plans as to how they can commute to where food is located to forage and bring back to their families.

The real problem is, a lot of urban-based preppers seem to think their best post-Apoc strategy is to shelter in place ('bug in') until their stockpile of eatable supplies runs out, at which point they'll bug-out 'Road Warrior' style into the vastness of the resource-rich countryside where they'll find an abandoned farm or rural homestead somewhere, and hangout there, .... as if the knowledge and skill to milk cows, raise chickens, and grow crops is something easily acquired under drastic conditions ... Sorry, not happening.

[akguy47]

This is an awesome topic. But remember that within 90 days 90 percent of the population will be gone. So high cap semi auto will be best. AR with a echo trigger and P60 mags is the way to go.

[Don Fischer]

Originally Posted by TXAZ

^^^^^^^^ THIS!

What works for elk in Montana is probably worthless for small game (rabbits) in the Southern US. Most people won't have the chance to hunt an elk.

A .22 probably won't phase an elk, and may or may not bring down a farmer's cow, but may get your run over by the bull.

It really depends on what you're plan of action calls for in food sustainment and personal relationships with others that may be farming but not hunting.

My choice would not be a 22 RF except I think a 22 RF mag would do the job. I read about that world record grizzly killed with a 22 RF. According to the article it was a 22 Long! Shot by a woman extremely familiar with her rifle. It was said to be a really ragged single shot but she knew exactly where to hit the bear and let it get very close then perciely paced her shot. Then she went on to apply several more shot's, each that would kill the bear. I would not even consider such a shot other than self defense! In a survival sit I would go with a 22 Mag. Enough more powerful than the 22 LR to be worth it. Still can carry a lot of ammo without adding to much weight. But there is absolutely nothing a 22 LR or even a mag can do that a 458 mag can't! depends on shot placement. Shoot s pygmy cottontail in the head with the 458 Mag and any bullet you want and you will not lose much in the way of meat to eat. The down side of most the CF's over RF fire's is how much the ammo you carry weight's! On having to worry about large dangerous animals, avoid them. Make believe with the 22 RF that you don't have any fire arm with you! if some bad human desides to steal your dinner, shoot him in the head with a 22 RF and the discussion is over. Sometime's I do agree, shot placement is everything. Give some real though to what survival really means. You are not going to war, just trying to survive. Your brain will probably be much better at keeping you alive that a firearm that's give's you more confidence than it should!

[Mobuck]

My "prepper" armament includes a suppressed 22lr that's accurate enough to make head shots at 100 yards.

[lamarw]

As I mentioned above, I will be staying in my home where I have beds to sleep on and blankets, clean clothes, a roof over my head and a multiplex theater of rifles, shotguns, hand guns and even a few pellet guns. Then I have my reloading bench set-up for all my shotguns, and center fire rifles and pistols. A boathouse full of rods & reels, minnow traps, 4 or 5 foldout tackle boxes with lures, line, hooks, sinkers, corks and etc. along with boats that my have to be paddled.

The electricity may go out, the water may stop running and no gasoline for my cars and boats. I will still survive. There is a large generator with a huge propane tank for short term use. Why go anywhere else and why limit myself to one rifle? Hopefully, I would not be affected by riots in the streets since they are at least 30 miles away.

[THE]

After reading through this thread I see that I am covered very well for most any if not all survival situation. What matters most is that you have a gun/guns caliber be damned.

[Art Eatman]

The reason we don't do SHTF here is that there are way too many different scenarios which are valid. Urban/rural/wilderness. Solo. Family. Larger group.

No "One size fits all."

There are numerous websites which specifically with prepping and SHTF.