Flux pure lead for Black Powder?

[Darth AkSarBen]

Pure lead, which I am supposedly using, melts at 621 deg. F. I'll run it at 725. Ordered a digital LYMAN lead thermometer today and once I find 725 on my pot using the dial, I'll mark that. That gives it just a little above melting, and should be enough to keep molten during a pour and fill out a HOT mold.

[Hawg]

That's getting close to the temp zinc melts at. You do not want zinc in your pure lead.

[Darth AkSarBen]

From reading a post(s) on cast boolits that the concensus is that 100 deg above where lead melts should be good for bullet casting. Correct? Getting zinc in the mix... I would think if I have 100% pure lead that I'd have to add Zinc to worry about it in the lead.

[mehavey]

And it shows that for pure lead, fluxing does nothing.

Wrong.

Maybe nothing for a bottom pour, but absolutely essential to clean up the forming crud from/for dipper work.
The OP has already reported his problems therein. `Nuff said.

Theory's great... until it meets reality.

[darkgael]

Ladles. Lee, RCBS, Lyman.....and then there is the Rowell #1 bottom pour ladle.
That is the one to get.
https://www.rotometals.com/casting-l...SAAEgK8VPD_BwE
Or

[Hawg]

From reading a post(s) on cast boolits that the concensus is that 100 deg above where lead melts should be good for bullet casting. Correct? Getting zinc in the mix... I would think if I have 100% pure lead that I'd have to add Zinc to worry about it in the lead.

Lead melts at 621° zinc melts at 786°. Maybe is just me but 675° is a little closer than I like but I use a lot of stick on wheel weights so I have to be careful about zinc.

[Darth AkSarBen]

But Hawg, I have no wheel weight to melt nor do I want them. I only have pure lead for the Minnie' ball moulds.
I should not worry about zinc no matter how high the temp goes.



psst... How do I enable "quotes" in my message?

[maillemaker]

Wrong.

Maybe nothing for a bottom pour, but absolutely essential to clean up the forming crud from/for dipper work.
The OP has already reported his problems therein. `Nuff said.

Theory's great... until it meets reality.

Here's the reality: No amount of fluxing pure lead is going to stop the melt from oxidizing on the surface. You might enjoy 2 minutes of dipping before a new oxide layer forms. I've seen this countless times. You "flux", get a nice shiny surface on your melt until the flux burns off, and then the oxidation process starts all over again. You can flux and skim and flux and skim until you are blue in the face - all you are doing is wasting lead.

That is why when ladle pouring you should use a ladle with a submerged pour spout, so that the dross floats on top of the ladle. You do not need to skim the dross for a ladle to work if you have a good ladle.

Steve

[ConRich]

Assuming that the OP has a way of knowing that his lead is pure, I would agree with Maillemaker.

What if there is no way to verify the purity of what is in your melt, how does one remove these unwanted metals such as tin and antimony leaving only pure lead in the melt ?

[Pahoo]

Assuming that the OP has a way of knowing that his lead is pure, I would agree with Maillemaker.

With me, this is not a factor as I flux every time; just part of my routine and there are always benefits to doing so. …..

Part of my lead supply are factory poured ingots that are stamped pure plumbers lead. Wish I could remember the name of the company and can look it up. Each weighs 5-LBS. and I smelt it down to 1-LB. ingots. I use a commercial flux and always skim off surface junk. …..

NOT A High-Jack; but this thread reminds me of the one about eating Coyotes. That one went on forever. Now, whether you flux or not or eat Coyoted, or not, I'm happy for you ……


Be Safe !!!

[maillemaker]

What if there is no way to verify the purity of what is in your melt, how does one remove these unwanted metals such as tin and antimony leaving only pure lead in the melt ?

There is no way to do this within the scope of your home bullet caster once these metals are in solution with one another.

If you are going to shoot bullets that require pure lead to insure deformation when firing to take up the rifling, like expanding (minie) ball, or compression bullets like Wilkinson-style bullts, your best bet is to purchase known pure lead from a reputable source. Rotometals.com sells it delivered to your door. I go down to Troy, Alabama to purchase chemically-assayed pure lead from Sanders Lead.

If I had a nickle for every time I heard someone at a competition say, "Well, I must have gotten a bad batch of lead" I'd be a rich man. If you're serious about accuracy in your deformable-bullet muzzle loader, then you should be buying known pure lead. It's one variable in your shooting that you can completely and easily eliminate.

Of course not all muzzle loaders or black powder arms use or require deformable bullets. I use random wheel weight lead in my Armisport M1842 smoothbore because the bullet does not need to deform. Likewise my 1859 Sharps, being a breechloader, forces the bullet into the rifling and performs better with a slightly harder alloy (I use 1:20 tin:lead).

Steve

[ConRich]

Thanks Steve

Rich

[Hawg]

But Hawg, I have no wheel weight to melt nor do I want them. I only have pure lead for the Minnie' ball moulds.
I should not worry about zinc no matter how high the temp goes.

You might get some tho. The stick on weights are close enough to pure to work well. That's all I use. To quote click the fourth icon from the right on the bottom row and paste your quote in it.

[Darth AkSarBen]

To quote click the fourth icon from the right on the bottom row and paste your quote in it.

Like this?

Lead, naw, no wheel weights for me I will try to secure just pure soft lead. I got some from Roto Metals and am going to check plumber supply stores in the locale.

[mehavey]

RotoMetals is your best-buy (short of being totally free)
Bank on it

[maillemaker]

Turns out, you can reduce lead oxide back into lead by mixing it at "high heat" with carbon. I'm not sure what temperature is required to do this. Basically what happens is you have a "competing reaction" where two elements are competing for the oxygen. The carbon wins and steals the oxygen from the lead and turns it back to pure lead.

So it may be that by adding a carbonaceous substance to your pure lead melt that you can slow down, or even reverse, the oxidation. Like, for example, sawdust.

But, you're still going to end up with a sea of crap floating on top of your melt. I just find it easier to ignore it and deal with the dross. But, I may now try and recycle my dross in my furnace using powdered charcoal.

Steve

[Darth AkSarBen]

Went to a scrap yard only about 7 miles from where I lived and bought 35 pounds of scrap lead; 2 pieces of round pipe and a thin sheet of lead that appears to have paper backing here and there like it was stripped of drywall paneling. Do you all think that the lead pipe and sheet are pure lead? Price was right, $1.00/lb

[Pahoo]

Do you all think that the lead pipe and sheet are pure lead? Price was right, $1.00/lb

I'm going to have to give you the benefit of whatever doubt there might be as I have smelted the similar material. I have also tested it and it's as pure as I usually encounter. I have a pretty good idea of where the sheets come from. You will definitely have to flux that pipe. ……

I initially do a scratch test, then hardness and melting point. Keep in mind that I only cast RB's and BP conicals. A PRB is very forgiving. …..

Be Safe !!!