How did AeroShell 33 come to be used on AR rifles? Why?

Satchmoeddie · November 23, 2018, 03:59 PM

AeroShell 33 is airframe grease with a temperature use range of -80F to +300F, and the military rates it as airframe grease for flight surface actuators, and SLIDING PARTS on airplanes! Nowhere does the word armorer EVER appear ANYWHERE in the text about MIL-G-21164D. That number refers to airframe grease and nothing else. I found products like Jet Lube 550 work a whole lot better and they have a working temp range of -65F to +2600F, not -80 to +300F. Loc Tite moly anti-seize has a working temp of -60 to +750F. Jet Lube Nikal (nickel anti-seize) is good between -65 and +2600F. Aluminum anti-seize is good from -60 to +1400 to +1800 depending on the brand. Aluminum copper and graphite anti-size is good for -60 to +1400F. How are these not better than AeroShell 33? I have had a whole lot better experience with anti-seize compounds than misusing the most basic airplane grease in use. Valvoline Palladium car grease and old CRC Moly grease sold at Harbor Freight have the same 5% moly content as Aeroshell 33, and you can buy that grey CRC stuff for like $11 a for a 20oz tube at Harbor Freight. Any old Ford wheel grease for disc brakes is 5% molybdenum. Disc brakes can sure get hotter than 300 degrees! The sliders on the flaps of a B52? Those might be closer to -50, at altitude.

9x19 · November 23, 2018, 04:42 PM

I've only seen it used as an assembly aid for the barrel nut, so I don't think it really matters much. It's not used as a working lubricant in any of my ARs.

Use what you like, as my old machine shop instructor used to say: "Any is better than none".

HiBC · November 23, 2018, 04:49 PM

I'm not a lube expert.

I know I would not lube wheel bearings,ball joints,CV joints,or anything else where the primary need was lubrication using any ant-seize compound. I would not lube a firearm with Never-Seize

I'd assume the temp ranges given for anti-seize compounds applies to doing the job of anti-seize,a in preventing threads from galling.

I'm thinking the characteristics are engineered for the application,and the temp ranges apply to the product delivering those characteristics.

An anti-corrosion grease might be great for protection from -50 f to 300 f.

That does not mean its a good lubricant,or that it would not be too stiff for a firearm at -30 f.
But,the firearm might not rust.

I don't know the Shell Aero 33 grease. Someone may be buying it bulk and repackaging it as " Wicks GunSlippery # 99" with success.

Aircraft sliding parts and actuators may have similar requirements to firearms parts at -75 deg f. Like,working freely.

I don't think my BCG has ever exceeded 300 deg f.

I won't claim its ideal,but I had a tube of full synthetic blue Castrol grease with great temp characteristics.I have used it on guns without having anything to complain about.

Most anti-seize is messy and some contains lead.

kymasabe · November 23, 2018, 06:59 PM

I have a small container of it, only cost me a couple dollars. And I use it on barrel nut threads only.

Charlie98 · November 23, 2018, 08:11 PM

By now, everything ever made has been used on the AR, it shouldn't be any surprise.

imashooter · November 24, 2018, 08:20 PM

Almost anything with a pedigree such as AeroShell 33 becomes an overnight sensation regardless of it's intended use or application. If it doesn't work outside its intended use, "By golly, this stuff must be counterfeit".

Satchmoeddie · November 25, 2018, 04:09 PM

I'd think that on an M16 barrel nut I'd darn sure prefer Jet Lube 550 over AeroShell 33. -65F to +2600F? The M16s and M4s have the "fun switch" and those guns can heat up an awful lot. I also use the moly or antiseize on muzzle devices, like brakes, flash hiders, thread protectors, or suppressors. If it's a match rifle I am using Loc Tite, and not preloading the barrel. That gray grease they sell at Harbor Freight likely has the same exact 5% moly content as AeroShell and I don't think a tube of that stuff is more than $8. (It's "on sale" for $5 right now.) Why buy a tiny 1 oz cup of AeroShell for $2 when I can have 20 ounces of Harbor Freight moly grease for $5.47? CRC bought Sta Lube and Sta Lube used to be a NAPA house brand. I used tonnes of Sta Lube gray grease on my Ford vehicles, and my GM vehicles. What's left over in the grease gun when the tube won't pump grease anymore is more than you get for your $2! I doubt anyone is doing much of any fighting when it's -75 outside. What would they be fighting over? Laying siege to Santa's workshop? I can only assume that AeroShell must have been something that was readily available maybe in Vietnam and was perhaps the only Moly grease the soldiers could lay their hands on. The manual just says "molybdenum grease". It doesn't specify what type, or the moly content. I do know the original mil spec for the M1 Garand was "Lubriplate" moly grease with a calcium soap filler base. AeroShell has a fine clay filler base. The manual also specifies "cleaning the treads off and degreasing them". The goes without saying as a lithium based moly grease is not going to be compatible with any soap based grease. In the BCG you can put whatever works inside there. High temp Red n Tacky, or Tetra grease. Redline is a pretty good wide temp range synthetic, that is about 1/4 the price of Tetra. Automatic transmission builders assembly grease is handy as heck too. It sticky blue stuff, that holds roll pins in roll pin starter punches, holds springs in their little holes, detents on springs, extractors in place, etc. etc. When FN Browning is charging $15 for a 23 cent spring it does pay for itself.

MagnumWill · November 26, 2018, 09:38 AM

Keep in mind it's essentially used as anti-seize, it's not being used for its continuous use properties. If it allows you to achieve proper torque around room temperature, its job is complete. No sense spending more money on something more expensive to do the same exact thing.

I think it's commonplace knowledge that oil is used in AR-type rifles.

Ifanything, the Garand would probably love that stuff.

9x19 · November 26, 2018, 01:37 PM

For most products, the retail packaging costs more than the contents.

Smaller quantities often seem over-priced due to that fact.

Of course it's not always that simple, sometimes popularity plays a part, or just pure marketing.

Bart Noir · November 26, 2018, 08:14 PM

As MagnumWill says, who cares what the temperature range is? That grease is for installing the steel barrel nut on the aluminum upper receiver, as the quote from the manual is trying to instruct. The "troops in Vietnam" never installed barrels, that would have been the armorer's job at a large base. At that point, yeah, the grease used on aircraft might have been something easy to obtain.

Never before have I heard of using grease for lubing the rapidly moving internal parts. The military issued "Lubricant, Small Arms" (LSA) for that purpose.

Bart Noir
Who will die of old age prior to using up that LSA bottle. Such great lubes are available for guns now.

LineStretcher · November 26, 2018, 08:32 PM

Although not specifically designed as one, it is used as an anti-seize compound to prevent galvanic corrosion which is a problem when steel comes in contact with aluminum. Even Stainless steel can cause it but it's far less of a problem. If I remember correctly it has zinc in it and not copper like most anti-seize compounds. It sort of acts like a sacrificial anode. Tiny as it may be in this case, it does work and is one of the reasons you can get the barrels off these things even after many years of service.

amd6547 · November 26, 2018, 08:48 PM

Maybe Stoner found some on the shelf at Fairchild Aircraft Corp when he was designing the AR’s.

**44 AMP** · November 27, 2018, 10:41 PM

Quote:

The "troops in Vietnam" never installed barrels, that would have been the armorer's job at a large base.

Having been one of those "armorers at a large base" in the 70s, I can tell you a couple things. I was a Small Arms Repairman (MOS 45B20) I worked for Direct Support/General Support Maint companies. These were levels 3 & 4 in the Army 5 level system. User is level 1, Armorer is level 2. He works for the company the user belongs to, in their company arms room.

levels 3 & 4 are support. We support brigades. Meaning ALL the companies in the brigade, inf, armor, cav, all of them.

Next, that "large base" might be a deuce and a half shop van, which would go to the line units, where ever they are based (including forward firebases), doing the needed repairs, then driving to the next unit we support and repeating the process. Contact teams, living out of our trucks, eating off our customer's mess, and while not the tip of the spear, very possibly on the sharp end sometimes.

Yes, there would be a full shop at the "large base" but some of our personnel were out in the field camps as much as back at the base. And yes, we did replace barrels on M16s in the field at need.

And, here's another point, somewhat related to the discussion of greases here, during my entire time as a Small Arms Repairman (mid 70s) our manuals didn't call for it, and we NEVER used ANY grease on M16 barrel nuts, flash suppressor threads or any other part of the M16 during repair or assembly. None, not ever. I can't say what the Marines did, or what every unit in the army did, but none of the units I was in ever used any grease or any anti-seize compounds on the M16 anywhere.

We did used grease in the 81 & 4.2" mortar mechanisms. GAA (Grease, Automotive and Artillery), the T&E mechanisms and some other parts were packed full of it.

ilmonster · November 28, 2018, 09:08 AM

Linestretcher would appear to be correct. As is evident, there are no sliding forces when attaching a barrel via the barrel nut to the receiver. The 33MS is used as an antiseize to prevent galvanic corrosion between the two dissimilar metals. I also use a dab of Aeroshell on my alloy car wheels when swapping out summer for winter wheels as the alloy wheel is mounted against a steel hub, and if you've ever tried to take an alloy wheel off a steel hub, they can "weld" themselves together pretty good from galvanic corrosion.

If you're looking to get farther into greases than you ever thought possible, another website to visit is bobistheoilguy.com. Tribologist heaven!

ndking1126 · November 28, 2018, 09:51 AM

44 AMP, interesting perspective. I was a maintenance officer in Afghanistan. We were a support company attached to a FA battalion. Our BN was separated from the rest of the Brigade by half a country, but we supported multiple units that worked in our AO. We even looked at weapons owned by other countries a time or two, as I remember. Our armorer did most of his work at our base, (which was reasonably large), but would sometimes travel to our subordinate units on resupply convoys when needed.

"The more things change, the more they stay the same."

November 23, 2018, 03:59 PM	#1
Satchmoeddie Member Join Date: November 21, 2008 Posts: 61	How did AeroShell 33 come to be used on AR rifles? Why? AeroShell 33 is airframe grease with a temperature use range of -80F to +300F, and the military rates it as airframe grease for flight surface actuators, and SLIDING PARTS on airplanes! Nowhere does the word armorer EVER appear ANYWHERE in the text about MIL-G-21164D. That number refers to airframe grease and nothing else. I found products like Jet Lube 550 work a whole lot better and they have a working temp range of -65F to +2600F, not -80 to +300F. Loc Tite moly anti-seize has a working temp of -60 to +750F. Jet Lube Nikal (nickel anti-seize) is good between -65 and +2600F. Aluminum anti-seize is good from -60 to +1400 to +1800 depending on the brand. Aluminum copper and graphite anti-size is good for -60 to +1400F. How are these not better than AeroShell 33? I have had a whole lot better experience with anti-seize compounds than misusing the most basic airplane grease in use. Valvoline Palladium car grease and old CRC Moly grease sold at Harbor Freight have the same 5% moly content as Aeroshell 33, and you can buy that grey CRC stuff for like $11 a for a 20oz tube at Harbor Freight. Any old Ford wheel grease for disc brakes is 5% molybdenum. Disc brakes can sure get hotter than 300 degrees! The sliders on the flaps of a B52? Those might be closer to -50, at altitude.

November 23, 2018, 04:42 PM	#2
9x19 Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 1998 Location: Sherman, TX USA Posts: 3,750	I've only seen it used as an assembly aid for the barrel nut, so I don't think it really matters much. It's not used as a working lubricant in any of my ARs. Use what you like, as my old machine shop instructor used to say: "Any is better than none". __________________ Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!

November 23, 2018, 06:59 PM	#4
kymasabe Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2005 Location: SW Florida Posts: 2,747	I have a small container of it, only cost me a couple dollars. And I use it on barrel nut threads only. __________________ God's creatures big and small, eat them one, eat them all.

November 23, 2018, 08:11 PM	#5
Charlie98 Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2006 Location: Great state of Texas Posts: 1,077	By now, everything ever made has been used on the AR, it shouldn't be any surprise. __________________ _______________ "I have this pistol pointed at your heart!" "That is my least vulnerable spot."

November 25, 2018, 04:09 PM	#7
Satchmoeddie Member Join Date: November 21, 2008 Posts: 61	The M16 manual just says "use moly grease on the barrel nut threads". I'd think that on an M16 barrel nut I'd darn sure prefer Jet Lube 550 over AeroShell 33. -65F to +2600F? The M16s and M4s have the "fun switch" and those guns can heat up an awful lot. I also use the moly or antiseize on muzzle devices, like brakes, flash hiders, thread protectors, or suppressors. If it's a match rifle I am using Loc Tite, and not preloading the barrel. That gray grease they sell at Harbor Freight likely has the same exact 5% moly content as AeroShell and I don't think a tube of that stuff is more than $8. (It's "on sale" for $5 right now.) Why buy a tiny 1 oz cup of AeroShell for $2 when I can have 20 ounces of Harbor Freight moly grease for $5.47? CRC bought Sta Lube and Sta Lube used to be a NAPA house brand. I used tonnes of Sta Lube gray grease on my Ford vehicles, and my GM vehicles. What's left over in the grease gun when the tube won't pump grease anymore is more than you get for your $2! I doubt anyone is doing much of any fighting when it's -75 outside. What would they be fighting over? Laying siege to Santa's workshop? I can only assume that AeroShell must have been something that was readily available maybe in Vietnam and was perhaps the only Moly grease the soldiers could lay their hands on. The manual just says "molybdenum grease". It doesn't specify what type, or the moly content. I do know the original mil spec for the M1 Garand was "Lubriplate" moly grease with a calcium soap filler base. AeroShell has a fine clay filler base. The manual also specifies "cleaning the treads off and degreasing them". The goes without saying as a lithium based moly grease is not going to be compatible with any soap based grease. In the BCG you can put whatever works inside there. High temp Red n Tacky, or Tetra grease. Redline is a pretty good wide temp range synthetic, that is about 1/4 the price of Tetra. Automatic transmission builders assembly grease is handy as heck too. It sticky blue stuff, that holds roll pins in roll pin starter punches, holds springs in their little holes, detents on springs, extractors in place, etc. etc. When FN Browning is charging $15 for a 23 cent spring it does pay for itself. Last edited by Satchmoeddie; November 25, 2018 at 04:20 PM.

November 23, 2018, 04:49 PM	#3
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,288	I'm not a lube expert. I know I would not lube wheel bearings,ball joints,CV joints,or anything else where the primary need was lubrication using any ant-seize compound. I would not lube a firearm with Never-Seize I'd assume the temp ranges given for anti-seize compounds applies to doing the job of anti-seize,a in preventing threads from galling. I'm thinking the characteristics are engineered for the application,and the temp ranges apply to the product delivering those characteristics. An anti-corrosion grease might be great for protection from -50 f to 300 f. That does not mean its a good lubricant,or that it would not be too stiff for a firearm at -30 f. But,the firearm might not rust. I don't know the Shell Aero 33 grease. Someone may be buying it bulk and repackaging it as " Wicks GunSlippery # 99" with success. Aircraft sliding parts and actuators may have similar requirements to firearms parts at -75 deg f. Like,working freely. I don't think my BCG has ever exceeded 300 deg f. I won't claim its ideal,but I had a tube of full synthetic blue Castrol grease with great temp characteristics.I have used it on guns without having anything to complain about. Most anti-seize is messy and some contains lead.

November 24, 2018, 08:20 PM	#6
imashooter Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 395	Almost anything with a pedigree such as AeroShell 33 becomes an overnight sensation regardless of it's intended use or application. If it doesn't work outside its intended use, "By golly, this stuff must be counterfeit".

November 26, 2018, 09:38 AM	#8
MagnumWill Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Location: Central Colorado Posts: 1,001	Keep in mind it's essentially used as anti-seize, it's not being used for its continuous use properties. If it allows you to achieve proper torque around room temperature, its job is complete. No sense spending more money on something more expensive to do the same exact thing. I think it's commonplace knowledge that oil is used in AR-type rifles. Ifanything, the Garand would probably love that stuff. __________________ Those who hammer their swords into plow shares will plow for those who didn't...

November 26, 2018, 01:37 PM	#9
9x19 Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 1998 Location: Sherman, TX USA Posts: 3,750	For most products, the retail packaging costs more than the contents. Smaller quantities often seem over-priced due to that fact. Of course it's not always that simple, sometimes popularity plays a part, or just pure marketing. __________________ Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!

November 26, 2018, 08:14 PM	#10
Bart Noir Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2000 Location: Puget Sound, USA Posts: 2,215	As MagnumWill says, who cares what the temperature range is? That grease is for installing the steel barrel nut on the aluminum upper receiver, as the quote from the manual is trying to instruct. The "troops in Vietnam" never installed barrels, that would have been the armorer's job at a large base. At that point, yeah, the grease used on aircraft might have been something easy to obtain. Never before have I heard of using grease for lubing the rapidly moving internal parts. The military issued "Lubricant, Small Arms" (LSA) for that purpose. Bart Noir Who will die of old age prior to using up that LSA bottle. Such great lubes are available for guns now. __________________ Be of good cheer and mindful of your gun muzzle!

November 26, 2018, 08:32 PM	#11
LineStretcher Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2018 Posts: 619	Although not specifically designed as one, it is used as an anti-seize compound to prevent galvanic corrosion which is a problem when steel comes in contact with aluminum. Even Stainless steel can cause it but it's far less of a problem. If I remember correctly it has zinc in it and not copper like most anti-seize compounds. It sort of acts like a sacrificial anode. Tiny as it may be in this case, it does work and is one of the reasons you can get the barrels off these things even after many years of service.

November 26, 2018, 08:48 PM	#12
amd6547 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 2,313	Maybe Stoner found some on the shelf at Fairchild Aircraft Corp when he was designing the AR’s. __________________ The past is gone...the future may never happen. Be Here Now.

November 28, 2018, 09:08 AM	#14
ilmonster Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 180	Linestretcher would appear to be correct. As is evident, there are no sliding forces when attaching a barrel via the barrel nut to the receiver. The 33MS is used as an antiseize to prevent galvanic corrosion between the two dissimilar metals. I also use a dab of Aeroshell on my alloy car wheels when swapping out summer for winter wheels as the alloy wheel is mounted against a steel hub, and if you've ever tried to take an alloy wheel off a steel hub, they can "weld" themselves together pretty good from galvanic corrosion. If you're looking to get farther into greases than you ever thought possible, another website to visit is bobistheoilguy.com. Tribologist heaven!

November 28, 2018, 09:51 AM	#15
ndking1126 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2008 Location: Madison, AL Posts: 1,932	44 AMP, interesting perspective. I was a maintenance officer in Afghanistan. We were a support company attached to a FA battalion. Our BN was separated from the rest of the Brigade by half a country, but we supported multiple units that worked in our AO. We even looked at weapons owned by other countries a time or two, as I remember. Our armorer did most of his work at our base, (which was reasonably large), but would sometimes travel to our subordinate units on resupply convoys when needed. "The more things change, the more they stay the same."