Beginner 9mm loader

[MightyMO1911]

I am beginning to load 9mm and am looking at powders. I've been loading 45acp, 45lc,38 special and 357 Magnum. I know that 9mm runs at a little higher pressures and seems to me that generally speaking, would require a slightly different powder genre.

From my reading and research, I think I would be better off with a slightly slower powder. I have several pounds of Unique and plan to utilize that for my JHP loads but am looking for something to Load 124gr LRN.

I have a lot to learn about powders and pressures so I am gathering information. So tell me if I'm thinking along the right path or not.

I am thinking about #5, BE-86, power pistol, something along those lines.

Thoughts? Precautions?

[TailGator]

I don't have my references at hand at the moment, but I expect that you will find loads for Unique for that bullet. I am using 4.8 grains of Unique for a 124-grain plated bullet. Your pressures should be a bit lower with lead. If you want to play with some other powders, fine, but I am not sure you need to have a different powder for that bullet. Unique does a lot of things at least adequately, some pretty well. I use it in 9 mm regularly.

[Unclenick]

Same as for any other chambering, a fast powder will need a smaller charge weight to reach the highest pressures and will produce lower velocity than a heavier charge of slower powder does. It will produce less total recoil than a slower powder, even at equal velocities, because the smaller charge mass contributes less equal and opposite reaction to being accelerated down the bore and its rocket effect will be smaller because it produces lower muzzle pressure. The fast powder have less unburned powder exiting the muzzle and make a smaller fireball. But it will be perfectly satisfactory for target and practice loads and less expensive to load due to the smaller required charge weights.

Unique is a perfectly good compromise between fast and slow and will perform in between. It doesn't meter well in a lot of measures, and unless you load it a little warmer than a light target load, it tends to leave some unburned flakes around. For that reason I've tended to favor Hodgdon Universal where I could get equivalent performance. It's much cleaner burning. Unfortunately, it remains hard to acquire and is slated to be replaced by a new powder next year anyway, according to ADI's web site, so you may not want to get married to it in the first place.

[mikld]

I have used Unique for reloading 125 gr. LRNFP bullets in my 9mms, and actually for all the cartridge you mentioned. I have no experience with the powders you are asking about, BE-6, AA 5, or Power Pistol, but I have used Bullseye, W231, Unique, Universal, and even True Blue I my 9mm reloads.

My advise for a new reloader (or a new to you cartridge) is stick with "book loads", right outta your manual, but continue researching. "Normally" manuals won't list powders not suitable for certain cartridges and I've seen Unique listed in most of my reloading manuals for 9mm load data...

[emcon5]

I am a firm believer in not fixing that which isn't broken, and Unique falls in that category.

Unique should work fine in everything you have listed.

[Hammerhead]

HS-6 always seems to work well in the 9mm, especially with 124s or 147s.
IMR 4756 and 7625 are being discontinued, but if you have some to burn they work very well in 9mm, also Titegroup.

Watch your bullet seating depth. Pressures go up quick in 9mm with changes in seating depth.

[skizzums]

hp38 is the easiest and least tempermental, like it was made specifically for 9mm. titegroup gets a close second place and the HS6 for less traditional loads. CFE pistol is okay, but more for the heavies. if you want lowest density for safety concerns, that's HS6, then longshot. Lowest case fill will be will be clays and PB. Pretty much all the other 9mm powders all run within a rain of each other. TG is the most economical, it can run them pretty fast if you want or very mild as well, very versatile, much like HP38, although TG has it a bit on velocity if that's what your going for. HS6 is always king for velocity in 9mm, and it likes to be loaded hot to burn clean, I think CFE may have the edge on it with 147's but i'd have to check. But any of those three powders and your going to be in a good spot shooting some accurate loads, I prefer the HP38 so I can stay wimpy and still burn clean and cool. although TG can be downloaded just the same, seems to burn a little otter if your a lead blaster. but keep an eye for any of tose. hp38, titegroup or hs6. I prefer to use mag primers in 9mm, follow at your own peril and work up your loads correctly.

9mm is a super esy and forgiving cartridge to load for. it's also boring as h*&#

[Clark]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

When I started handloading in 1999 it was 308 and then 9mm.
With the 9mm I was interested in seeing how powerful I could make it.
I worked up until the gun blew up.
Between 1980 and 1999 I had been designing power supplies that I overloaded and blew up to find the weak spots. Then I would fix the weak part of the design and overload higher. This was like dynamite fishing. My competition was slowly producing unreliable designs, while I could produce reliable designs quickly.
When a power supply blows up, it is often like an M80 in the environmental chamber oven, or on the workbench it blows a hole in the ceiling.
But when a 9mm blows up the extractor shears off and goes to the right at lethal velocities, while the bottom of the magazine blows out the mag well with the ammo, magazine spring, and follower. The bits of brass can come back through the slots in the slide and hit the shooter in the face. The blood on his face is called "major face" from all the guys who tried to make the majors [bullet weight times velocity = 180 or greater].
Wanting to avoid all that drama, in a load work up, if a guppie belly case bulge appears on the case as the result of not being supported over the feed ramp of the barrel... this is precursor to lots of trouble. If one sees a case bulge in a workup, the workup should be terminated. A useful load would have to have less powder than caused the bulge. The amount less is called the safety margin.
Most 9mm barrels have a feed ramp intrusion of~ 0.19". The web of a 9mm brass case is ~0.16". This leaves 0.03" of thin case wall unsupported. That is where guppie bellies are made.
Back in 1999-2000 I tried working up all 9mm bullet and powder combinations to destruction. Most combinations cannot get enough pressure before no more powder will fit. The powders that will make trouble have a high [speed]x[density] product. They are also peaky, meaning big changes in pressure with small changes in powder. Ones to watch out for are; AA#5, HS-6, and 3N37. While Blue Dot may seem horribly peaky in other more voluminous cartridges, it lacks the speed-density product for 9mm trouble.
My favorite 9mm powder is Power Pistol, has a high speed density product, but it is anything by peaky. It blows a big fireball of unburned powder out the muzzle where it burns to make light.
Another thing that causes a pressure spike in 9mm is cartridges that are a tight fit in the chamber. Resizing loaded ammo so it drops in and out of the chamber freely can increase the threshold of case bulge by many grains of powder.

I have not gone back to 9mm experimentation since 2000, but what I learned was later applicable to experimenting with 25acp, 32acp, 7.62x25mm, 380, 9x23, 40sw, 10mm, and 45acp.

[Nick_C_S]

From my reading and research, I think I would be better off with a slightly slower powder.

In general, you are basically correct. 9mm has very little internal case volume once the bullet is seated. As internal volume is reduced, the propellant's burn rate increases. So yes, compared to 38 Special, for instance, the powders ideal for a given application "shifts" slightly to the slower side for 9mm. Of course, that's a bit of an oversimplification. But it basically makes the point.

I have several pounds of Unique and plan to utilize that for my JHP loads but am looking for something to Load 124gr LRN.

I would think that would be a good combination. I'm not a fan of lead bullets with 9mm, but that's for another post.

I have a lot to learn about powders and pressures so I am gathering information. So tell me if I'm thinking along the right path or not.

You are basically on track.

I am thinking about #5, BE-86, power pistol, something along those lines.

Yes, they are all good propellants for 9mm. I have used Unique, AA#5, Power Pistol, and HS-6 (hammerhead mentioned) - all with good to excellent results.

All that said, don't over look faster powders too. For light duty range shooters underneath 115gn bullets (jacketed and plated for me), I have had great results with Bullseye, W231 (a.k.a. HP-38); and especially AA#2. And I suspect TiteGroup would work well too (and others).

[MightyMO1911]

Thanks. for the input, all. You all are generally confirming my suspicions and have assured me I am at least thinking along the right line. Maybe I am actually learning as I go. I think I'll see if I can grab a pound or 2 each of 231 or HS6 while I'm at Graf's next week. Funny b3cause right now I don't even own a 9mm, but will be the proud owner of one next week. I'm just lining up all my ducks now.

[Average Joe]

I used Unique in 9mm it worked OK, but metered poorly. I switched over to Power Pistol and it worked well, and metered well. I also have used Red Dot, and w231 in 9mm. My favorite is 5.0 grains of Power Pistol for the 9, with a X-treme plated 124 grain bullet , nice target load

[Nick_C_S]

I can grab a pound or 2 each of 231 or HS6 while I'm at Graf's next week.

If you have "several pounds" of Unique, it would be a bit redundant to get HS-6. I'm not discouraging you, other than to say you'll find a lot of "application overlap" between the two. So unless you just want to increase your overall powder inventory quantity, there would be little - if anything, other than better metering - to gain by getting HS-6. Also, magnum primers are recommended for HS-6 (not so much for 9mm or 45 ACP, but pretty much always for revolver cartridges). So adding HS-6 to your inventory also means adding magnum primers.

Now W231 on the other hand: Works fantastic for 45 ACP, 45 Colt, & 38 Special. And even 9mm (as I mentioned in my previous post). But good luck finding it. Although, it has made some appearances lately (namely Cabela's); it's generally very difficult to procure.

[skizzums]

we still have a good scok of HP38 locally. I picked up 5 pound a couple weeks ago, and there was much more at that particular store. Ga Arms also had several pounds on the shelf and likely more in the back. So, I am not sure if they have actually discontinued it yet o not. But I figure that 5#'s plus the 3-4 I already have will last a very very long time and I do not plan to buy more. I might as well start figuring out my alternative rather than hanging on to pet loads that wont exist in the future. I wish graf's would sell their powder to local retailers, I am interested to try it, but not interested in haz-mat fees when I can get hodgdon's/IMR anywhere I please. but if my local GS sold the Nobel Sport's, I would definitely give them a try, plus they seem to run about 10-15% cheaper than the rest, but I bet a LGS would put a quik stop to that price gap.

where I am going with this is, to the OP, might as well stay away from HP38/win231 despite being an awesome powder, because they plan to stop production of it, if they haven't already.

I have NEVER EVER seen unique on the shelf. and I shop powder all the time and have a half dozen stores that have huge stocks, but never once came across a single lonely pound of unique. I can always find Hodgdons(def th most avail) along with IMR and generally Accurate powders(although they are too pricey around here) and I also see some Alliant Reloader X-Y-Z. but those are my only options, which I am plenty happy with considering other peoples powder situations.

[TimSr]

Were I in your shoes and sitting on several pounds of Unique, I woud not be buying additional powders. Unique is great for both cast and jacketed loads.

Were I looking for a powder just for 9mm, my go to has been Blue Dot since my first batch of comparative test loads for cast and jacketed bullets. I load mostly 124gr cast conicals these days, but I've loaded about everything 125gr and under.

[evtSmtx]

"sitting on several pounds of unique" does not seem consistent with storing in a cool dry place.

[MightyMO1911]

I would be completely stunned if Winchester discontinued 231. It's just too popular. I could see discontinuing HP38
though, because it's exactly the same thing. Why package the same product with 2 different labels?

Ok so I will drop the HS6 thought because that makes sense. I've heard red dot/promo from several different sources so maybe I'll give that a shot as well as some BE-86. I have a powder addiction and vow to have at least 1 pound of every one made before I die. Lol

[jetinteriorguy]

While I haven't tried Unique yet I love HS-6 for full powered 9mm. You have to load it hot but once you do it rocks. For lighter all around target and plinking I use 700-X, it doesn't meter super well but with a few taps on both up stroke and down stroke of the Lee PPM it meters very consistently. The 700-X is also very economical and accurate. These are with 124 grain projectiles and both of my loads shoot to POA out to 25 yds. In my Just Right Carbine the lighter 700-X loads are an inch lower than the HS-6 loads at 50 yds.

[serf 'rett]

Target loads - W231/HP38
Mid range - Unique, AutoComp, N320
Upper end - Power Pistol

124 FMJ, plated, lead and Hi Tek coated lead

[indie_rocker]

I've loaded up a few test rounds of 124gr 9mm with BE-86 and found it to be pretty good. Haven't done anything in bulk just yet, as I still have a few pounds of SR7625 left.

[mmb713]

You are correct that 9mm does best with the slower powders. Unique will work just fine, especially with your lead bullets, but Alliant's best powder for the cartridge is Power Pistol. I have not used it personally in 9mm but AA#7 is also supposed to be one of the best. I've had very good results with N350, 3N37, Power Pistol, Universal and SR4756. Any of the powders in this burning range should give good results.

A lot of people swear by the faster powders in 9mm. While the fast powders will make rounds that work they are not as well suited to the cartridge as the mid to slow burning powders.

[factoryrat]

This burn rate chart might be helpful, since the fast v slow powder for 9mm discussion has been brought up.
http://gsgroup.co.za/burnrates.html
I like Accurate #5. I have also used W231/HP38 & AA#2. I have not used lead in 9mm, yet; until recently the only 9mm I had was a P7. In the near future I will be working up loads w/ Ramshot Competition "and/or" Silhouette since I was given an offer I couldn't refuse on 16# of each. I say "and/or" because I have been lead to believe I will prefer Silhouette in 9mm. Ha, I knew I could find a pun to use!

[evtSmtx]

my two favorite powders in 9mm are power pistol and cfe pistol with a slight preference for power pistol (but very slight)

[Nick_C_S]

Target loads - W231/HP38
Mid range - Unique, AutoComp, N320
Upper end - Power Pistol

Excellent choices, IMO.

[Jim Watson]

Wow, a lot of analysis for a simple situation.
If I were loading .38, .45, and .45, (and I have) I would not see much point in shopping for a special 9mm powder.
Unique is fine.
I use HP38 for most non-magnums except powderpuffs for which I prefer Bullseye. But there have been a lot of others over the years depending on availability, price, and curiosity.

[BigJimP]

There seems to be more Hodgdon Universal available lately ( at least in my area ) ...and Unique is very hard to find.../ I like Universal over Unique as well. If, or when, Hodgdon changes the powder - just deal with it then - but whatever replaces it will probably have similar characteristics.

Another powder I like in those calibers is TiteGroup ...but you need to be careful with it / its Min and Max are not far apart.