TiteGroup - new to me - the early returns

[Bongo Boy]

Yeah the magic list of burns rates I have shows Clays faster than both Bullseye and Titegroup--although since Bullseye and Titegroup are listed right next to one another there's no real conclusion there. But Clays is several positions faster than both. Doesn't mean it's correct data--but it's certainly widespread.

[Nick_C_S]

This morning, I carted my Smith 67 and chronograph out to the range one more time. Testing all TiteGroup rounds.

After my previous trips, I finally got my IDPA and ICORE charge levels zeroed in enough to find the actual recipes today.

Here's where I am: The 148 DEWC's - both lead and plated - are just too light for TG to only push to just over 710 f/s (IDPA Power Factor). It just burns too slow, doesn't develop enough pressure, and is not the right propellant for the application. It's kind of okay for the plated, but definitely not the lead. And not "kind of okay" enough to realistically consider it for plated either. At this point, I consider TiteGroup unacceptable for 148g IDPA level rounds. I have the load data in case I need it some day. But that's the end of that.

TiteGroup did much better pushing the 158's to 765 f/s (ICORE PF). I do find it odd that the lead makes PF at 3.2 grains; and the plated has to go up to 3.9 grains to achieve the same velocity (typically, at these levels, most powders have a difference of 0.2 to 0.3 grains). At any rate, they both performed well with low Standard Deviations. I think these rounds are just touching the lower end of TG's wheelhouse for 158/38 Special. I'm sure TG would much rather push them to around 850 f/s or so - maybe even 900 f/s for the lead. But that's not going to happen, as I have no purpose for such a round. When I practice for matches, I use the same ammo with which I compete.

Now that I know the correct charge weights, the next range trip will be shooting a boatload of lead and plated 158's to really get a good idea of how clean (and Sevens, how hot) it runs, how accurate, leading characteristics, etc.

[Carriertxv]

I just bought a 8lb jug of it and now I'm kind of bummed about it. There seems to be a whole lot of negative from many on Titegroup on every site I go to.
From burning and melting everything it comes in contact with to blowing up guns daily.

[Sevens]

Ya know what? That simply does NOT have to be your experience!

My view of Titegroup is different than many folks. I litetally have well over a dozen different handgun powders on hand. I have MANY options so it's extremely easy for me to nitpick Titegroup and choose something else.

If you have 8lbs and you are astute on the cardinal rules of safe & productive handloading, don't worry about other's complaints. For SURE, if I was stuck on a deserted island (or California ) and I had 8lbs of Titegroup, I would embrace it!

Blowing up guns?!
Titegroup is absolutely as capable at doing that as -ANY- powder on the market. High energy, high nitro, extremely fast burning and very dense. It truly is all you need to make a major, MAJOR mistake. But if you aren't a careless fool and you don't make mindless mistakes... and you keep in mind how serious this ballgame is, Titegroup is not (at all) something to "worry" about. Quite frankly, it is only ever so slightly more "dangerous" than Bullseye or AA#2 or ANY other fast, dense pistol powder.

We have to keep things in perspective. I'm approaching 30yrs at the bench and I have made some conclusions that definitely work for me and my needs but you simply can't read that as a condemnation of a powder.

If we want to make a thread where we REALLY brew up some genuine HATE for certain powders, I would have some fun in that thread, too.

[MightyMO1911]

Well reading the posts from the last day makes me realize I'm really not crazy; in the 38 special TG does indeed like to push a 125 gr lead bullet much better than a 125 gr plated.

I loaded up some light plinks for a friend of mine in Ruger Security Six and in my testing, and I don't remember the charge but it was 3 point something grains, stuck a plated bullet in the bore and honestly it sounded like just the primer popping. However, the same charge with a lead bullet sounded and recoiled normally, and sent the bullet down range nicely. I attributed it to differences in obturation sealing the bore better in one than the other, but maybe it was the powder.

I have also found it to leave a lot of fouling on the case and I've actually put TG on the bqck of the shelf. So far I just haven't liked it but perhaps I've just not found where it really likes to operate just yet.

[salvadore]

Carrier, be of good cheer, I started out with an 8lb jug and use it in all my handguns.

[Nick_C_S]

I just bought a 8lb jug of it and now I'm kind of bummed about it.

There's probably no reason to be bummed about it. I'm only bummed because it didn't meet my expectations for my primary application.

You didn't mention what cartridges you load for. But TiteGroup can find a home in just about all of them. I wouldn't hesitate using it for 115 grain target/range loads in 9mm. Or even 124's - but a little more carefully (actually, my gut tells me that it'll run sweet under 124's, but the window is probably narrow). If I ever get around to loading 9mm again (I have a lot of factory ammo), you can be certain that TG will be coming to that party. I'm also sure it will do well for 165 grain target/range loads for 40 S&W (I don't load for 40).

I already use it for 44 Special - 240gn LSWC's, and 200gn plated FP's (see OP). They shoot nice. Might even pump them up a little more. I haven't gone down the 45 ACP road with TG yet, but I suspect it'll make some good range shooters there too.

Generally speaking, TiteGroup seems to be well suited for general range shooting in most handgun cartridges. If that's your purpose, you'll likely make good use of those 8#'s.

[Carriertxv]

Well for the amount of reloading I do the Titegroup will last a long time. Finding powder up here like many places is hit and miss.

I am loading 9mm, 38/357, 45 and will be loading 44 magnum soon. I have various other powders I use 231, 105,110 296,4227 and happened to come across the Titegroup.

After buying it I started to notice all the negative about Titegroup on the various other forums that I guess I never noticed until now. Anyways I can't get back to reloading for a few weeks due to surgery so will have to wait till then to see how it works.

[Nick_C_S]

Yesterday, I took 234 rounds of TiteGroup-loaded ammo out to the range for a "stress test," if you will.

First up was a 160gn lead button-nose wadcutter. I had 184 of these bullets laying around. I tried them some time back, but I didn't care for them because they didn't "cut wads" as nice as a wadcutter should. So they were perfect to be re-purposed for this job - I just needed shooters. So I blew the dust off them and put 3.5gns of TiteGroup under all of them.

Next on the list was 50 X-treme 158gn plated SWC's. I put 4.0gns under them. I've already chronographed this recipe at 791 f/s.

All the rounds shot nice. I collected the brass into a container and then dumped it all into a rotary case separator to collect the unspent propellant. There was quite a bit. Upon inspecting the brass, the 160 LBNWC's showed signs of low pressure - slight mouth blow-back, and powder debris. Although they shot nice, I actually should have pumped them up quite a bit more in order for them to run at their best.

The 50 rounds of 158 PSWC's did better. They had a nice "snap" to them as they went off, and I could feel that they were running right. Case inspection confirmed this (I used different headstamp brass between the two loadings); as they had smooth gray insides, no residue, and no mouth blow-back.

The gun (Smith 67 4") was filthy. But it would be filthy after 234 rounds of any powder.

Overall, it has been aptly confirmed to me that TiteGroup is a slower propellant than I thought or needed it to be. Slower than W231, that's for sure. I would go as far as to say if it were any slower, I'd categorize it is an intermediate speed propellant.

Basically, I have no use for it . Okay, I'm exaggerating a bit. I can use it for 44 Special rounds; and any 38 Special I want to pump up well above target (I don't log in a lot of range time shooting such ammo, but sometimes I do). I'll also look at 357 Magnum under lead slugs - I bet it'll work well for that; but again, I don't log in a lot of range time shooting lead 357's. Believe it or not, I bet TiteGroup would make great 125gn 357 Mag short-barrel defense rounds. Hey, now there's a "just-for-the-heck-of-it" load workup I could do .

[Sport45]

I've burnt a lot of Titegroup and really liked it in .45acp, .38spc, and 9mm. I've since switched to Unique and Universal for most of my regular handgun loads and H-110 or Enforcer for the magnum stuff.

I did notice for a while it seemed that most every account of a .40S&W being blown up involved Titegroup powder. Whether it was bullet setback or double charges is anyone's guess, but it is empirical data to be aware of.