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Old May 19, 2022, 09:30 AM   #1
BobCat45
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Fixed 4-power scope options

Been looking for a simple fixed 4X scope and trying to stay away from brands that are reputedly cheap and not reliable (e.g. Simmons).

I have one old Leupold M8 4X that is about perfect for my use but those are discontinued.

Found two scopes that might fill the bill, a Swift and a Hawke.

Swift is https://swift-sport-optics.myshopify...e-model-sr668m

Hawke is https://us.hawkeoptics.com/vantage-4x32-3030.html

Both are inexpensive and that worries me.

I'm normally quite cheap but in this case willing to spend what it takes to get a reliable scope. In other words I'm afraid these are too cheap to be any good.

Does anyone have any actual experience with either of these brands?

Does anyone have any other suggestions for a simple, fixed low-power (not wedded to 4X) scope that might last a while?

Thanks in advance for your comments.
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Old May 19, 2022, 10:15 AM   #2
BornFighting88
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I had a Weaver K-4 years ago that I was a fan of. Took many deer with it, as 4x works up to 200 yards (for my eyes at least). Only thing you might not like about it was the post reticle. If you can get down with the broken cross reticle, and the pointed post, I think you would get as much of a kick out of that as I did.
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Old May 19, 2022, 10:43 AM   #3
BobCat45
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Thanks! That's exactly the kind of answer I was looking for - a well-respected brand, scope with the right attributes, and not cheap junk.

Midway says "discontinued" - https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1009767251 - and I admit I was unaware they had ever gone back into production.

The only others I see for sale are on ebay, which is problematic. Maybe it is time to swallow my pride and re-create an ebay account. Years ago I bought a couple of Dillon 450 presses on ebay, then they got weird about firearms-related stuff and I dumped my account. But I see scopes and presses there so looks like I was wrong.

Anyway I will look for a Weaver K-4 (or another Leupold M8) while continuing to look for feedback on the two makes I mentioned.

Thanks again!
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Old May 19, 2022, 11:05 AM   #4
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There is an outfit called Vintage Gun Scopes, they sell a variety of classic scopes that have been refurbished or reconditioned. Prices reflect quite a bit of inflation... They do have a good selection of fixed power scopes. I have no experience buying from them, but they have been around for a few years.

Depending on what you plan to do with your scope, there is the Leupold FX-1 4x rimfire scope. The parallax is set for 60 yards, but that could be adjusted if that's a problem. It retails for around $200 new. It's a great no frills 4x scope.
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Old May 19, 2022, 12:39 PM   #5
BobCat45
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Thank you! That is a marvelous website and I'm thinking of just getting lost there for a while. Prices are high but they are not the same dollars we grew up with.

The 4X Leupold is a viable option for my purpose. The rifle is an IMI Timberwolf carbine in .357 mag and I can no longer see the front sight, but the longest shot I'd take with it would be on the close order of 50-60 yards - certainly no more than75-80. And I do not "need" it, I have an AR carbine (with the Leupold M8 on it) for hogs or whatever comes by to tear the place up, I just don't like having an arm that can't be picked up and used.
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Old May 19, 2022, 01:01 PM   #6
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I have an original Weaver K4 (made in El Paso) and the Leupold FX-1 4x. The K4 is a larger scope, looks good on a full size gun. The FX-1 is a lighter, more trim scope, better suited for smaller firearms. The Leupold has a brighter image; lens coatings have improved over the last 50 years. Have fun shopping and let us know what you end up with.
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Old May 19, 2022, 01:47 PM   #7
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"I have one old Leupold M8 4X that is about perfect for my use but those are discontinued" Why are you not going to use this scope? In my mind, what's left of it,
doesn't mean that it broke does it?
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Old May 19, 2022, 05:18 PM   #8
BobCat45
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hub1home, the M8 is on an AR carbine that is 'instantly available' for use.

I suppose I could put the carry handle upper back on it and get a retro-carry handle scope from Brownell's - https://www.brownells.com/optics-mou...rod124965.aspx but that would be a step backwards in my opinion.

LeverGunFan, the lighter, smaller FX-1 sounds like a good fit. I need to check price and availability, and seek opinions regarding whether a "rimfire" scope is called that only because of the close parallax setting or maybe it will not stand much recoil.

'The right approach' would probably be a red dot for the Timberwolf, but I've never warmed up to those.

Thanks.
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Old May 19, 2022, 08:24 PM   #9
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Going to sound stupid, but the Simmons 4X32 is stupid cheap and has a quick focusing eyepiece; fantastic for keeping that target in focus. I've got them on a number of rimfire rifles and never have wished for something else.

Best of all, they're $20 at a Bushnell Outlet; which is outrageous...used to be $10.
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Old May 19, 2022, 08:51 PM   #10
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Not stupid at all. Several friends have Simmons and Bushnell scopes on their deer rifles and swear by them.

I always thought, those scopes are 10-20 years old, they may have been inexpensive but in those days they were probably pretty well made; but modern production is probably cheap in every sense of the word.

Maybe I'm just being a snob, or complaining that "they don't make 'em like they used to in the old days". So - maybe worth a try.
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Old May 20, 2022, 09:17 AM   #11
BornFighting88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobCat45 View Post
Not stupid at all. Several friends have Simmons and Bushnell scopes on their deer rifles and swear by them.

I always thought, those scopes are 10-20 years old, they may have been inexpensive but in those days they were probably pretty well made; but modern production is probably cheap in every sense of the word.

Maybe I'm just being a snob, or complaining that "they don't make 'em like they used to in the old days". So - maybe worth a try.
It is not being a snob. It is true!! Cheap plastic caps have replaced the formed metal caps covering the adjustment knobs. Cheap plastic and rubber coated bits replaced the end caps and the power rings. It makes me sick sometimes.

You know who else to look at?? Burris!! I have a pistol scope by them with long eye relief, that I have put on a scout rifle. It is adjustable power, but I leave it on 4x. Snaps to target and keeps the target clear and bright at all times.

They have a wonderful warranty and service department. The only questions they ask are what you have and what your shipping address is for the return/replacement.
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Old May 20, 2022, 10:27 AM   #12
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Swift isn’t a joke. I had a Swift scope and it was really good. I sold it with my varmint AR upper.

I think Burris makes super solid stuff, too.
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Old May 20, 2022, 10:37 AM   #13
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Swift used to be a good scope but they are out of the rifle scope business and maybe entirely.

The K4s were good, if enough Xs for you and up till a couple yrs ago were readily available on eBay. Price like all is up but some were quite good shape.. Weaver is also out of business.
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Old May 20, 2022, 08:31 PM   #14
BobCat45
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Thank you! You have all given me something to think about.

The Leupold FX-1 4x fits the bill but retail is $300. Am aware of Burris and their good name. and their 3-9x retails for about $160 but is larger and heavier.

I need to consider what this scope is actually supposed to do. The Timberwolf is not unusable with the irons, it is just that I can't shoot it very well with the front sight out of focus, and I thought, "Gee, if I could put a 4X scope on this just like the Leupold on the AR carbine, that would be perfect." But maybe 'perfect' is not necessary; maybe a fiber optic blade would work and not add any weight.

stinkeypete, it is good to read that someone here actually had a Swift scope and thought it was good. People here know more than I do so I value their opinions, that's why I asked about the two 4X scopes I found that were not 'the cheapest' - although they were cheap enough I wanted some feedback from someone who had used one.

langenc, Swift is apparently still in business and still sells that scope. This reminds me though, of an old friend who swore by Leupold scopes, then suddenly decided his new Nikon was the cat's meow and he was done with Leupold - then Nikon got out of the scope business. No telling what tomorrow might bring.

I think my problem is called "Retail Therapy" - that notion that "If I only buy one of these doodads, it will fix my Life" - and I need to analyze what role the Timberwolf has and what sight would work well in that role.

Anyway thanks and if/when I figure out how to proceed, I'll close the loop.
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Old May 22, 2022, 07:44 PM   #15
BornFighting88
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For anything that I plan on taking serious game with, I also swear by Leupold. Hands down I am gold ring glass man. But for its intended purpose, I wouldn’t second guess that Burris for a hot second.
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Old May 23, 2022, 06:01 AM   #16
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If you insist on a fixed 4X scope you have 2 options. Either buy junk, or plan to spend $1500.

Very few manufacturers even make them anymore and the handful still out there are on either end of the spectrum. The only fixed 4X Leupold now makes is a $1500 scope.

I suppose you could look for a used one but in the 21st century there is no real reason to choose one though. I'd look at either a 1-4X20 if you want to keep things really small and light. Or just get a 3-9X40. One of those are on all of my rifles and I use the lowest power setting 95% of the time.

You could split the difference and go 2-7X32. But in my experience they are neither fish nor fowl.
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Old May 23, 2022, 12:46 PM   #17
stinkeypete
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I was surprised to learn that I could not find a fixed 4x scope on the market except for the Leopold at around $400. Huh.

Although gun sales are up, hunting license sales are down. It’s probably more profitable to sell scopes with batteries in them, so they don’t last 100 years and you can sell more.

As a Burris fan, I see they have some nice affordable low power zoom scopes. The optical problems come when you try to really stretch the range of magnifications, the mechanical problems are from moving parts. One thing is for sure, I am a huge fan of the Signiture rings with the plastic inserts… they make a very solid attachment.
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Old May 23, 2022, 05:13 PM   #18
ligonierbill
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Just a thought. I have started using a Leupold FX-3 6X on several of my guns. Why? Well, starting the hunt in Namibia, I asked the PH where he thought I should set my 2.5-8X. He said 6, so that's where it stayed all week. Never felt uncomfortable whether it was 200 m or a finishing shot at 10. You might take a look at that one.
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Old May 24, 2022, 12:15 AM   #19
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I nice weaver K 4 is a good choice.
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Old May 24, 2022, 10:31 AM   #20
BornFighting88
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@ligonierbill had a great point. If you went that route and got an adjustable power scope and just left it on the power you wanted, but had the others for the occasional need, I think you would be in better shape.

Like I always tell my wife, especially when it comes to buying guns.... "Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it..."
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Old May 24, 2022, 11:38 AM   #21
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OP, I found this scope while perusing for my next "investment".

https://simpsonltd.com/bausch-lomb-b...-scope-c33243/

They want $150 as of today.

Last edited by BornFighting88; May 24, 2022 at 11:39 AM. Reason: forgot to add part of my post
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Old May 24, 2022, 02:45 PM   #22
BobCat45
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Thanks, that's a very interesting site and scope!

ligonierbill did have a very good point, and when I went looking I found this Leupold site:https://www.leupold.com/shop/riflesc...pes#part-table
It has the 6X he recommended, but also shows a 2.5X that the 'details' page says weighs 6.5 ounces, while the 6X weighs 13.6 ounces.

I was looking for simple, light, and unobtrusive sight - not insisting on 4X, just wanted something akin to the 4X Leupold on my AR carbine. Simple and tough like an iron skillet, but lighter.

I think this 2.5X Leupold meets all my wishes; it is now just a matter of whether I'm willing to pay for it. In today's money, $300 is not that much - as much as it goes totally against my grain to even think such a thing, let alone write/say it!

The Timberwolf is fine at the range with the cheap Elvex safety readers (Amazon) I use for pistol shooting - it is just not usable at home with my regular bifocals. So I asked about two scopes I found, Swift and Hawke, and two people thought Swift was not junk. And this scope, sold under the Anshutz label https://champchoice.com/store/Main.a...ns&item=HK3026 is reputed to be a Hawke, but not anything like the one I was looking at.

So question answered - but many good alternatives presented!

I am not against LPVO scopes. I have a Vortex PST 1-4X on my Service Rifle for across-the-course, bought on the recommendation of people at the Range when scopes became "legal" for Highpower, and I could not see my front sight all that well, and everyone was going to scopes anyway.

It works great, dials 200-600 yard elevations and back, and I haven't broken it yet. It also throws the weight and balance of the rifle way off what I was used to (weighs about 16 ounces) and on the Timberwolf it would be like the horse riding the cowboy instead of the other way round.

So -thanks! This has been an informative exercise and I look forward to checking back to see if anyone has more to add.

I also need to ask a friend to let me look through his red dot sight to see if my astigmatism really makes it poor, because logic tells me that is the way to go, even if it does have a battery.
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Old May 24, 2022, 07:20 PM   #23
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4x scope

Weaver
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Old May 25, 2022, 08:23 AM   #24
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Its slim pickings from my quick search. I dont trust budget scopes anymore, bushnell, simmons, tasco, center point, vortex, BSA. With several of the brands the upper tier offerings are good, but if its $140 or under i dont touch them anymore.

My reccomendation would be a 1-4 or 1-6 and just leave it on 4. Almost all the scopes are variable now except some of the acogs.
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Old May 25, 2022, 09:12 AM   #25
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There is a serious shortage in new scopes for actual hunters. In the woods a 4x scope is about all you need. Sometimes a 6x with big Object.is nice for low light situations.
The new generation of hunters are not hunting, they are assassinating game from stands with Target/ Varmit scopes. If you want a hunting optic you are going to pay big bucks for what is now considered a “European Style” scope. Same thing as the old K Weaver and straight power Redfield and Leupolds.
I’m not buying the low end Chinese scopes and not the $1200 German scopes either. Best bet is to buy a nice used Leupold for reasonable money. It’s still guaranteed. I’m looking for scopes for two #3 Rugers as we speak. I just want to shoot deer in the woods not observe craters on Mars.
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