Do we need Hi-Capacity in everyday Carry?

[cslinger]

Tornados are statistically insignificant yet HIGH IMPACT events.

Self defense is similar.

Will you ever need to use violence .... probably not if you live a decent life and follow the social contract if you will.

Will you ever need a firearms.....heck less the the above

Will you ever need to actually discharge a firearm in anger......heck now we are really down in the statistical weeds.

Will your discharge of a firearm require more then 1-3 shots. Lottery territory.

Will your discharge require 10 or more shots.......the world hates you, God hates you, fate hates you chances.

Problem is sometimes that tornado finds somebody’s house and all bets are off and you better have storm cellar/shelter. Same with firearm capacity. Wrong guy, wrong day, God hates you etc. and just maybe that storm cellar is a Glock 17 loaded with 18 rounds of HST. Likely, HELL NO. Has it happened to some poor schmuck.....yep.

So all that said.....have and not need and all that.

[rock185]

When I was younger, living and working in the big city, more often than not I carried a full size pistol off duty. I'm retired now, living in a smaller town, and more often than not carry a small revolver or compact 9MM. This fits my senior citizen lifestyle. So I have to admit that if I am so unfortunate as to be involved in a situation where higher capacity or reloads are required, I'll probably regret my choice...

[smee78]

To me this is more of a personal decision question. Do you in your daily life feel that X rounds is enough? I have no problems carrying a G19 and do not live in a restricted state so I carry a 15 round mag in it. I always carry a reload no matter what gun I carry, so it does not matter if its my S&W 638 J frame or my FNX-45, I always have a reload. At the end of the day you must decide what you can carry and what your comfortable with?

[Siggy-06]

My job is 5 minutes from my new house, in a pretty nice neighbourhood. So in my area, Monday-Friday I feel sufficiently armed with just my LCP in my pocket, through my work schedule. The chances of me ever needing my pistol, let alone 7 rounds, in my area, are very very low. Now when I go out of town, long road trips, big cities, I carry my Glock 23. Familiarize yourself with your AO, and 'dress' appropriately.

[tlm225]

I chose to carry a single stack 9mm (Shield) but always with a spare magazine. My bedside gun is a 15 round .40 on the premise that during a middle of the night event I may not have time to grab a spare magazine.

For those who chose to carry a high capacity handgun as their EDC, more power to you, it's your call.

[TXAZ]

The average number of rounds fired in self defense is two. (https://www.secondcalldefense.org/shots-justifiable)

There aren't any semi's I'm aware of that hold less than triple that.

But here is a notable exception:

https://www.gunsamerica.com/UserImag...wm_7054742.jpg

[Brit]

Originally Posted by Doc Holliday 1950

I go between my 10 +1 shot G43x & my Ruger 327 6 shot revolver. Just depends on the weather here in Fl. & where I'm going. At this time I prefer
to carry my G43x. But as usual, things change. So I guess I'd say that high capacity isn't that important for my needs.

Same here! Love my G 43X sits behind me at 6 am!

[Spats McGee]

Need? In my lifetime, I have not ever needed a gun. Not well-and-truly needed. I hope I live a long and peaceful life without ever needing a gun. With that said, there's only two times a man has wished for less ammo: When he was on fire, and when he was trying to swim.

The reality is that none of us knows what we will have needed until it's over. I've carried anywhere from 5 (LCR) to 30 (G19 + extra mag) rounds. The odds of actually needing to fire in SD are pretty low. I try to manage those risks by not doing stupid things with stupid people. There is some risk, though, that stupid people might try to do stupid things to me, regardless of my behavior. It is because of that possibility that I carry a gun. If I were trying to deal with 'average' or 'normal' situations, I wouldn't carry a gun at all. In deciding to carry a pistol, I've already passed that hurdle and decided that I might need one to deal with an 'abnormal,' statistically unlikely situation.

For me, the next question is 'how statistically unlikely are we talking about?' While my getting in a shootout is statistically unlikely, I carry a gun because: (1) there is some non-zero probability that it could happen; and (2) more importantly, the stakes are very high if it does happen. The odds of my needing a gun are low. The odds of my needing to fire >5 rounds are even lower. The odds of my needing to fire >15 rounds even lower than that. In the end, I have settled (for the moment) on a S&W Shield with 8 in the gun and 2 spare magazines. For my situation, it's the right balance of all the various factors involved in my daily routine.

[Brit]

So many great replies to my ambiguous? Question, well somewhat so.

My closest almost, so to speak. Returning from a match, in somewhere USA!
I was heading for my Motel, a Holiday Inn, an outdoor multi-level parking garage. Now at the top, outdoor now, no roof. Nice sunny Sunday afternoon.
Backed into a parking spot, not many of them available either.

Retrieved my match revolvers from the trunk. I was carrying a Colt 45 LW Commander, under a loose shirt, aftermarket stainless 8 round magazine plus one in the breech, cocked and locked 9 rounds of 200g hollow points onboard.

As I headed for the staircase to my floor, gun case (aluminium could have been a camera case?) in my left hand. Two young men, who were leaned up, against the two vehicles on each side of the entrance to the stairs, stood up!

Watching me approach, watching my case both of them. Keeping my eyes on them, I bent, and slide the case forward a bit, straightening up, and telling them, in my Liverpool accent (gets worse when I get tense) "You are in my way lads" the only change, I had my commander in a two-handed 45-degree hold! They both took off at speed! To my right, one ran behind the vehicles on that side, one in front. Buddy boy behind the vehicles let out a scream (really) after a loud clunk was heard.
Me being nosy traced his path, he had apparently run into a long tow bar on a Station Wagon backed in against the wall. That must of hurt.

Analyzing that now, if both had produced knives? Double taps times two?
Five rounds left, enough, who knows it never happened. Range 7 yards? I, like all here, have probably fired many rounds at 7 yards?

Bye the way, I am 84 years of age today!! Who would have thought it, many fights in my past, stabbed twice! Bouncer for 5 years in Liverpool Clubs went that way in the early sixties. Still alive and well.

[USNRet93]

I finally hit the title, above. Do we need Hi-Capacity in everyday Carry?
As law-abiding citizens, in our everyday life?

Here we go again. For me, there are 3 number 1s
Concealability
Shootability
Reliability

So, depends..of the 'uses' for a handgun, needing it to defend yourself is the least likely 'need', by a lot. The number one most likely 'use' is to carry it..followed by going to a range and shooting it.

I'm not going to carry something that's hard for me to carry.
I'm not going to own something that's no fun to shoot.

Winter, clothes allowing-G26..11+1
Summer-Glock 42..7+1

So they fill the squares for me..and as always with these discussions, YMMV..

I think it's fair to mention, to those who carry something that's really hard to carry, 'just in case', that difficulty often translates to, 'I'll just leave it at home'...

[jar]

Remember that the Savage 1907 was the original dual stack "High Capacity" magazine pistol and it held ten rounds.

"Ten Rounds Quick!"

[AgedWarrior]

What is of paramount importance is the individual not be denied the freedom to choose what they perceive is needed, regardless of cultural expectations or peer pressure.

[lunger]

"Need" is an loaded word.

I hear this from my wife all the time . As in "do you need another gun"
As to hi-capacity,for me it depends on the situation and need for concealment . I hope in the future we still have this option.

[Walt Sherrill]

Originally Posted by DaleA

Well this is certainly the exception rather than the norm but it's happened twice last month (Sept. 2019) here in the Twin Cities.

Probably everybody has seen these videos of the gang beat down cell phone robberies but I'll post the link anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RZX0e05NuU

Would a victim or good Samaritan want a hi-cap mag? Like someone else said nobody after a gun fight has ever been heard to say they wished they had less ammunition.

In the video link above, the narrative makes the point that both victims were drunk, and the attackers sought out victims unlikely to be able to effectively resist. Had the victims NOT been drunk, they probably would not have been attacked.

Even if either victim was sober and carrying -- but still attacked -- having to deal with so many attackers in a planned attack would have made it very difficult for the person being attacked to access his weapon and use it effectively.

Had a potential victim been vigilant the phone would likely have been in his pocket, not in his hand, where it would become the cause of an attack. Had he been using the phone the potential victim would likely have lost both the cell phone and the weapon. And maybe more...

A good Samaritan been nearby, firing a single shot might have stopped the attack but it could also have led to a bigger melee (i.e., a confused hand-to-hand fight among several people) with multiple injured parities, including the Samaritan, especially if there were other potential attackers standing close to the Samaritan.

If I were carrying and saw the attack take place I don't know what I would have done. It's easy for any of us to say we'd try to stop it, but HOW? The number of attackers makes it a very complicated problem.

[TunnelRat]

I don't personally change what I carry based on the season. While I understand that the way people dress influences their carry choices, to me a threat is a threat and I'm not convinced that criminals and crazy people are less active in the warmer months than the colder months (my guess would be the opposite). There is the argument of having to deal with heavier clothing in the winter, but there's no guarantee that in the summer someone planning something nefarious might not have on heavier clothing to aid in their concealment.

When it comes to carry there's a balance between comfortable and comforting. Obviously planning to carry something large that you then always leave at home isn't productive. At the same time carrying something small that is both reduced notably in capacity as well as potentially much harder for you to shoot may not be productive either. My experience has been that folks can generally carry pistols larger than they expect with the right holster and belt setup, but again it's their call. Whatever you carry, that should be what you shoot primarily, imo. Meaning if you carry a Glock 43 don't spend all your time at the range shooting a Glock 17. I once saw a man go throw a two day reflexive shooting course with a SIG P238. He had probably 6 or more magazines to keep up with the line, but he did very well overall and his training was more indicative of his reality.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[rodfac]

AgedWarrior put it right....

What is of paramount importance is the individual not be denied the freedom to choose what they perceive is needed, regardless of cultural expectations or peer pressure.

Emphasis added...Rod

[Nanuk]

Will you ever need to use violence .... probably not if you live a decent life and follow the social contract if you will.

Will you ever need a firearms.....heck less the the above

Will you ever need to actually discharge a firearm in anger......heck now we are really down in the statistical weeds.

Will your discharge of a firearm require more then 1-3 shots. Lottery territory.

Will your discharge require 10 or more shots.......the world hates you, God hates you, fate hates you chances.

Actually, about depending on who you listen too and which statistics are more accurate between 1 in 300 and 1 in 1000 Americans will need to use a gun for self defense. Living in a good neighborhood has been debunked numerous times. When the fight comes it will be what the fight will be.

Is it the face eating bath salt user or the first time violent offender? Step right up and take your chances......


https://www.heritage.org/firearms/co...dment-skeptics

[Nanuk]

The average number of rounds fired in self defense is two. (https://www.secondcalldefense.org/shots-justifiable)

That is great if your fight is "average" How many gunfights were used to develop that nifty statistic? Who did the research? The article uses that statistic. The only time I have ever seen less than 2 shots were shootings where the BG was hit and fell down behind something. But, I have been told that my person experience does not count as it is statistically irrelevant.

I do not necessarily believe that a hicap 9mm that you shoot OK with is a good replacement for a 6 shot 357 that you can split playing cards with.

[rodfac]

Nanuk:

The only time I have ever seen less than 2 shots were shootings where the BG was hit and fell down behind something. But, I have been told that my person experience does not count as it is statistically irrelevant.

It's sure statistically RELEVANT to you!! Experience being a stern tutor and all that....and by the way, thanks for your service over the years. Brother in law retired fromt the BP 5+ years ago up in Havre...great guy, superb shot...he paid his dues. Last name Small...Best Regards, Rod

[manta49]

If someone is carrying a firearm just in case, then it would make sense to carry one that can hold more rounds just in case.

[Brit]

Me going for breakfast, hot off the stove! The left pocket of track pants, cell phone, right Glock 43X. Expecting trouble? No, but you never know.

[shurshot]

Nanuk,

I agree. I'm much more comfortable with a gun that I can hit with, fits my hand better and that I can TRUST to function, as opposed to the latest, greatest, tacticool, polymer wonder gun to hit the market.
A powerful revolver (.38, .357, .44 or .45 Colt), with extra ammo, is my preferred weapon for off duty carry. Plus, all that heavy wood and steel make a great improvised, last ditch impact weapon when and if the wolves come for you.

[DaveBj]

I have enjoyed this discussion perhaps more than I have enjoyed any other discussion on this forum. It has been very informative, with good points on both sides. Bottom line -- I am satisfied with my original decision to carry an XD9 with 15 rounds. Easy to carry? Yep. Easy to shoot? Yep. Do I shoot well with it? A deputy sheriff told me that I shoot better than most of his fellow deputies. Will I ever actually NEED it (or the extra rounds)? Probably not, but there is a lot of territory not covered by "probably".

D

[jetinteriorguy]

I've tried half a dozen different smaller sized hi-cap pistols for carry but always come back to my LC9s. It's not too heavy, I shoot it very well out to ten yards, it's small and easily concealed, and it's been 100% reliable over more than 3000 rounds. I just carry a spare mag for more ammo and practice mag changes regularly.

[Nanuk]

Brother in law retired fromt the BP 5+ years ago up in Havre...great guy, superb shot...he paid his dues. Last name Small...

I retired out of North Dakota. Spent 8 years in western North Dakota. We know the same people but not sure we crossed paths.