Another Powder Recommendation

BondoBob · July 7, 2020, 08:56 AM

I'm looking for a powder for 380 w plated bullets and 38spl with soft lead. I realize extremely fast powders will deform a bullet and cause more leading. The barrels on both are about 2", so too slow a powder would probably be dirty and not get up to velocity. I want to push the 380 to the high side of the power range but the 38s can be a mid or mild load.

I'm thinking about Accurate #5 and Universal for this. Any other suggestions?

Jim Watson · July 7, 2020, 10:16 AM

I have loaded most non-magnums, including .380 and .38, with Win 231/HP38 and saw no reason to change except for Panic Shortages.

I am at present loading 9mm with Bullseye because that is what was available the last time I bought components; so down the road we will see if it works as well in .380 and .38 as it did over a hundred years ago.

USSR · July 7, 2020, 10:45 AM

Quote:

I realize extremely fast powders will deform a bullet and cause more leading.

Nope. Most leading is caused by bullets being too hard and smaller than throat/barrel groove diameters.

Don

BondoBob · July 7, 2020, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Nope. Most leading is caused by bullets being too hard and smaller than throat/barrel groove diameters.

I learn so much here. Thanks,

Berry's site says you can treat their plated bullets just like jacketed bullets as long as the size/weight is the same. Does everyone agree?

Jim Watson · July 7, 2020, 12:35 PM

Most of the plated bullets have a velocity limit... which you will not approach with a .380.

CherokeeT · July 7, 2020, 12:45 PM

231/HP38 will do the job for you in 380 and 38 Special. My go-to powder for 380.

ammo.crafter · July 7, 2020, 12:59 PM

231 is the way to go as others have said. Regarding your 38spcl loads, try a slightly harder BHN to reduce lead build up.

Missouri Bullets will have what you need and also advise you as to correct BHN vis-a-vis your load specs.

**44 AMP** · July 7, 2020, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Nope. Most leading is caused by bullets being too hard and smaller than throat/barrel groove diameters.

I don't know how you calculate "most". Leading is caused by too hard/too small, but it is also caused by too soft/too fast.

As to powder for .380 & .38Spl with light to standard level loads Bullseye has been a standard for well over a century.

Win 231 or equivalent will also deliver everything you need.

Red Dot and Unique also work. Literally anything listed in the load data will work.

I've been loading Red Dot in .38 spl loads (158gr @ 850fps) for years. Not because its the best possible thing but because it works well enough and I have about half a 25lb caddy of it, to use up...

I have a .380 now, but haven't set up to load for it, yet. When I do, I'll probably use Bullseye for anything serious (because I have some Bullseye), and save my Unique for other things. Might work up a load with Red dot for plinking, eventulally, but maybe not. Don't anticipate shooting the .380 all that much...

USSR · July 8, 2020, 06:01 AM

44 AMP,

I simply use my "most" calculator.

Since, IMHO, most commercially cast bullets are overly hard (12 - 18 BHN) and there is simply no way to have one diameter bullet match everyone's throat/groove diameter, my calculator is pointing to this. I cast hollowpoint bullets that are, according to the commercial casters, much too soft, but since they are sized to my handgun, give me zero leading. Another contributing factor is the overly hard lube by commercial casters. Again, this is just MHO.

Don

BondoBob · July 8, 2020, 11:57 AM

Ok, so what I have available is 700-X and Universal. Sounds like I should use 700-X (which is close to Bullseye and Titegroup on the burn rate chart) for my short barrel light to mid loads for 380 and 38spl. Then use Universal (which is close to Unique and Power Pistol on the burn rate chart) for my longer barrel mid to max loads in 357Mag, 38+P and 44Mag. I'll stick with Trailboss for 44spl for the fill.

Do I have that right?

mikejonestkd · July 8, 2020, 12:30 PM

Bob, I believe you were active in a thread concerning 700X and light charges.
The large flakes tend to bridge some powder measures, especially for very small charges like one would use for .380 auto. I suggest using a better metering powder for 380 auto.

BondoBob · July 8, 2020, 12:41 PM

Mike Jones, I was thinking of accurate No5 or Win231/HP38 for that reason. But it seems my Lee Perfect Powder Measure handles the powders I have ok. Perhaps that changes over time with humidity though.

USSR · July 8, 2020, 03:14 PM

Bob,

First, you don't say what weight bullet you are using. Most plated bullets use lead bullet data as opposed to jacketed bullet data. There is load data for 700-X and a 90gr lead bullet out there, although as mentioned earlier, it can be a bear to drop accurate charges with it. I have loaded .380 ACP using it, being careful with powder measure drops. If you don't have a Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, I suggest you get one.

Don

SHR970 · July 8, 2020, 03:48 PM

Quote:

USSR said: Most plated bullets use lead bullet data as opposed to jacketed bullet data.

I will ammend that to say you didn't say what BRAND of plated bullets you intend to use. That will determine whether to use lead or jacketed data. Not all plated bullets are the same; not even close. The former Rainier used some of the thinnest plating I ever saw and Speer Gold Dot / Unicore use the thickest. Everyone elses run somewhere in between. Also don't buy into the speed limit; as has been discussed here many times before, that depends on the pressure curve behind the bullet and the barrel length amongst other factors.

USSR · July 8, 2020, 04:45 PM

I believe he is using Berry's plated bullets which do not have a particularly heavy plating. Personally, I would use lead bullet data with them, but on the other hand, you will never catch me shooting plated bullets.

Don

SHR970 · July 8, 2020, 05:08 PM

Quote:

You will never catch me shooting plated bullets.

I've been using West Coast / Accura / Xtreme since the early 90's. Tried a few others and kept going back to the good stuff. I might have just a little knowledge on the subject.

And if you've been shooting ANY Speer Gold Dot / Uni Core, you have been shooting PLATED.

USSR · July 8, 2020, 05:58 PM

Glad you like the plated bullets, SHR970. I make my own bullets.

Don

BondoBob · July 8, 2020, 06:51 PM

I'm using Berry's 100 gr plated bullets for 380. Berry's 125gr plated for 38spl. Lead 158 SWC hunters supply and JHP 158gr speer for 38+p and 357.

USSR · July 8, 2020, 07:42 PM

Bob,

You really need to get one of Lyman's Reloading Handbooks. A lot of load data using various powders for both lead and jacketed bullets.

Don

Geezerbiker · July 8, 2020, 10:21 PM

Another vote for 231 but I also load .380 with Red Dot since I have a lot of it. Red Dot burns a bit dirty but cleans up easily...

Tony

Double K · July 9, 2020, 12:43 AM

I like powders that have a good enough loading density that it's obvious if a case is double charged, that would mean powders on the slower side for 380.
I use 800x in all my semi-autos, 45, 9mm and 380, it's very clean and the pressures are very low for the velocities.
Autocomp is my alternative powder if I can't find 800x.

5whiskey · July 9, 2020, 06:34 AM

I use jacketed data for everything except raw pure lead up to about 1200 FPS. I just ensure my projectiles are about .001 over. I never have any problem with leading

July 7, 2020, 08:56 AM	#1
BondoBob Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2020 Posts: 163	Another Powder Recommendation I'm looking for a powder for 380 w plated bullets and 38spl with soft lead. I realize extremely fast powders will deform a bullet and cause more leading. The barrels on both are about 2", so too slow a powder would probably be dirty and not get up to velocity. I want to push the 380 to the high side of the power range but the 38s can be a mid or mild load. I'm thinking about Accurate #5 and Universal for this. Any other suggestions?

July 7, 2020, 12:45 PM	#6
CherokeeT Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2008 Location: Medina, Ohio Posts: 273	231/HP38 will do the job for you in 380 and 38 Special. My go-to powder for 380. __________________ God Bless America US Army, NRA Endowment TSRA Life, SASS

July 7, 2020, 12:59 PM	#7
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	powder 231 is the way to go as others have said. Regarding your 38spcl loads, try a slightly harder BHN to reduce lead build up. Missouri Bullets will have what you need and also advise you as to correct BHN vis-a-vis your load specs. __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

July 8, 2020, 06:01 AM	#9
USSR Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2017 Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY Posts: 1,442	44 AMP, I simply use my "most" calculator. Since, IMHO, most commercially cast bullets are overly hard (12 - 18 BHN) and there is simply no way to have one diameter bullet match everyone's throat/groove diameter, my calculator is pointing to this. I cast hollowpoint bullets that are, according to the commercial casters, much too soft, but since they are sized to my handgun, give me zero leading. Another contributing factor is the overly hard lube by commercial casters. Again, this is just MHO. Don __________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor

July 8, 2020, 12:30 PM	#11
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,716	Bob, I believe you were active in a thread concerning 700X and light charges. The large flakes tend to bridge some powder measures, especially for very small charges like one would use for .380 auto. I suggest using a better metering powder for 380 auto. __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

July 7, 2020, 10:16 AM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	I have loaded most non-magnums, including .380 and .38, with Win 231/HP38 and saw no reason to change except for Panic Shortages. I am at present loading 9mm with Bullseye because that is what was available the last time I bought components; so down the road we will see if it works as well in .380 and .38 as it did over a hundred years ago.

July 7, 2020, 12:35 PM	#5
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	Most of the plated bullets have a velocity limit... which you will not approach with a .380.

July 8, 2020, 11:57 AM	#10
BondoBob Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2020 Posts: 163	Ok, so what I have available is 700-X and Universal. Sounds like I should use 700-X (which is close to Bullseye and Titegroup on the burn rate chart) for my short barrel light to mid loads for 380 and 38spl. Then use Universal (which is close to Unique and Power Pistol on the burn rate chart) for my longer barrel mid to max loads in 357Mag, 38+P and 44Mag. I'll stick with Trailboss for 44spl for the fill. Do I have that right?

July 8, 2020, 12:41 PM	#12
BondoBob Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2020 Posts: 163	Mike Jones, I was thinking of accurate No5 or Win231/HP38 for that reason. But it seems my Lee Perfect Powder Measure handles the powders I have ok. Perhaps that changes over time with humidity though.

July 8, 2020, 03:14 PM	#13
USSR Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2017 Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY Posts: 1,442	Bob, First, you don't say what weight bullet you are using. Most plated bullets use lead bullet data as opposed to jacketed bullet data. There is load data for 700-X and a 90gr lead bullet out there, although as mentioned earlier, it can be a bear to drop accurate charges with it. I have loaded .380 ACP using it, being careful with powder measure drops. If you don't have a Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, I suggest you get one. Don __________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor

July 8, 2020, 04:45 PM	#15
USSR Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2017 Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY Posts: 1,442	I believe he is using Berry's plated bullets which do not have a particularly heavy plating. Personally, I would use lead bullet data with them, but on the other hand, you will never catch me shooting plated bullets. Don __________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor

July 8, 2020, 05:58 PM	#17
USSR Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2017 Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY Posts: 1,442	Glad you like the plated bullets, SHR970. I make my own bullets. Don __________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor

July 8, 2020, 06:51 PM	#18
BondoBob Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2020 Posts: 163	I'm using Berry's 100 gr plated bullets for 380. Berry's 125gr plated for 38spl. Lead 158 SWC hunters supply and JHP 158gr speer for 38+p and 357.

July 8, 2020, 07:42 PM	#19
USSR Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2017 Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY Posts: 1,442	Bob, You really need to get one of Lyman's Reloading Handbooks. A lot of load data using various powders for both lead and jacketed bullets. Don __________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor

July 8, 2020, 10:21 PM	#20
Geezerbiker Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Location: Willamina, OR Posts: 1,908	Another vote for 231 but I also load .380 with Red Dot since I have a lot of it. Red Dot burns a bit dirty but cleans up easily... Tony

July 9, 2020, 12:43 AM	#21
Double K Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2020 Location: Colorado Posts: 486	I like powders that have a good enough loading density that it's obvious if a case is double charged, that would mean powders on the slower side for 380. I use 800x in all my semi-autos, 45, 9mm and 380, it's very clean and the pressures are very low for the velocities. Autocomp is my alternative powder if I can't find 800x.

July 9, 2020, 06:34 AM	#22
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,652	I use jacketed data for everything except raw pure lead up to about 1200 FPS. I just ensure my projectiles are about .001 over. I never have any problem with leading __________________ Support the NRA-ILA Auction, ends 03/09/2018 https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=593946