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Old May 24, 2020, 09:17 PM   #51
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Winchester large pistol primers are basically a magnum primer. I use them in 45 acp and 10 mm. You will note Winchester does not have a magnum large pistol primer for that reason. They are not known to be as "hot" as labled magnum primers like cci or federal, but hotter than a standard primer. This is well known and documented on this forum.

An actual FPS increase will be powder, bullet, and gun dependent, but when you look at published load data, noting the primer used can be important.

I hate to beat a dead horse, but this is why everyone with any experience says start low and work up your powder charges noting velocity and pressure signs. There is no such thing as "free velocity " Assuming you are using the same powder listed, same bullet, seating depth, etc, more velocity is achieved by either a longer barrel, or more pressure. ( There are ways with more volume due to longer seating depths but not generally with automatic pistols)

When i was new to reloading, i found out the hard way that lake city .308 brass had less volume than commercial. 308. I started about 3/4 the way up the powder scale and had stuck cases and pierced primers. Had i started low and worked up, would never have come to that.
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Old May 24, 2020, 09:43 PM   #52
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It's all going in my log for future use.

The other weird thing is the uncanny consistency I got with new Starline brass, compared to the big spread with range discards.
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Old May 24, 2020, 10:08 PM   #53
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Quote:
There is no such thing as "free velocity " Assuming you are using the same powder listed, same bullet, seating depth, etc, more velocity is achieved by either a longer barrel, or more pressure.
Sometimes, there is such a thing as "free velocity". Some guns are just "faster" than others. It's not something easily quantified, may not be possible to do it, but sometimes, using exactly the same ammunition, different barrels produce different speeds, and sometimes the difference is enough to be significant.

Quote:
The other weird thing is the uncanny consistency I got with new Starline brass, compared to the big spread with range discards.
Why is it weird?? I'd think it was normal. New brass with as much consistency as you're going to get, short of paying to match grade stuff, vs range pick up which can be a mix of any and nearly everything.
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Old Yesterday, 11:21 AM   #54
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It's uncanny because the velocity spread was extremely tiny and because pistol reloaders confidently say the brass makes no difference. Looks like that's wrong. I guess people who can't shoot say that. If you're shooting 6" groups at 7 yards, I suppose all ammunition seems equally accurate.

I'm surprised to find out so many things that ought to be common knowledge are not commonly known. For example, if Winchester primers are really faster, everyone should know it by now. It's 2020. People shouldn't still be wondering about it. If you Google, you'll find all sorts of people who say all primers are the same.
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Old Yesterday, 02:16 PM   #55
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All primers are not the same, but any appropriate primer should work. If you switch primer brands, you might have to adjust your powder slightly to get back to the same load.

I use range pick-up brass, but I sort it by headstamp; seems to make a difference but part of that might be my imagination.
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Old Yesterday, 03:57 PM   #56
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because pistol reloaders confidently say the brass makes no difference.
If your standards are low enough, it doesn't make much difference.

Anyone who tells you all brass is the same, and all primers are the same simply doesn't know what they are talking about, even if they sound like they do.

You can find people saying anything on Google.
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Old Yesterday, 06:05 PM   #57
Swifty Morgan
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I was looking forward to economizing on .45 brass, but if the velocity consistency translates in to accuracy, I will have to get used to buying Starline. I have a hard time willingly giving up accuracy.
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Old Yesterday, 07:56 PM   #58
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Swiftly, You can find headstamp sorted once fired brass. 44 AMP is right about standards, but its also a question of : Is the juice worth the squeeze? For my F-Open mid range and long range ammo, i go through so many prep and QC checks that it would take too long to list here.

For IDPA, a 1/2 MOA improvement due to ammo quality is nt worth the time or money. I use mixed HS brasd, berrys bullets, and worry about trigger time more than time at the reloading bench. But, a bullseye shooter might stand to benefit from an accuracy gain.

Same in my .223's, if you are shooting steels on the move, that is different than 300 and 500 yard steel ram shooting.
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