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Old May 20, 2020, 03:56 PM   #26
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I think this has never come about due to A) locals giving in to Federal coercion before the point of armed resistance was reached, and B) the people involved on the Fed side being smart enough to not back the locals, and themselves into that corner.
The Bundy situation might be close to that however.
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Old May 20, 2020, 04:57 PM   #27
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I think that during the designing years of our form of government, citizens were responsible for their own lives and not dependent on the kindness of any government. They truly valued liberty and were willing to defend it.
I also suspect that today many, not all, citizens have become so used to the largess of government handouts that that it would be very difficult to organize a serious resistance to an out of control government. I believe this to be an unfortunate result of citizens slowly allowing the government to intrude little by little into almost every aspect of our lives. We have willingly given up control in order to seemingly make life easier. Our government run education system is only one example where we lost control. Especially of young minds.
Congress has abdicated it's responsibility to represent the people by allowing agencies like the EPA, OSHA, Dept. of Agriculture, Dept. of Education and many others to make rules that become law without approval by congress. Congress even made it possible for themselves to get raises without voting for a raise. Did anyone complain? We the people no longer have input as to what new rules are approved.
I could go on but you get the picture.

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Old May 21, 2020, 12:35 AM   #28
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Congress has abdicated it's responsibility to represent the people by allowing agencies like the EPA, OSHA, Dept. of Agriculture, Dept. of Education and many others to make rules that become law without approval by congress.
I won't argue about Congress's responsibility, I rather agree. However you need to understand a slight, but important difference about the regulations and the law.

I can no longer remember the name of the act (and I'm too lazy to look at this time) but around 30 or so years ago, Congress passed it, and it became law.

Under that law, Congress does not "allow" the various agencies regulations "to become law", Congress REQUIRES those agencies regulations to carry the force of law.

Once upon a time, if you broke a regulation, you did not automatically break the law. Today, not so much. In most cases, if you break a Fed regulation (which is still not, technically, a law) you are now guilty of breaking the law.

Its a word game, but then, that's what Congress does...
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Old May 21, 2020, 04:44 AM   #29
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I think the closest was that battle of Athens in 1946.
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Old May 21, 2020, 06:59 AM   #30
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For the Lawyers here:
MacLean v Homeland Security (2014)
Thus, it is the TSA’s regulations—not the statute—that prohibited
MacLean’s disclosure, and those regulations do not qualify as “law”
Does that apply broadly to Regulation vs Law, or very narrowly ?
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Old May 21, 2020, 11:39 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by mehavey
Does that apply broadly to Regulation vs Law, or very narrowly?
Probably narrowly. I am not a lawyer, but I believe it's safe to say that the Supreme Court tends to rule narrowly as much as possible in order to minimize rulings having unintended consequences, and mass upsetting of apple carts in general. In this case, you don't have to read far to see that it's a narrow ruling:

Originally Posted by page 2
Held: MacLean’s disclosure was not “specifically prohibited by law.”
Pp. 5–16.
(a) The Government argues that MacLean’s disclosure was “specifically prohibited by law” in two ways: first, by the TSA’s regulations on sensitive security information, and second, by Section 114(r)(1) itself, which authorized the TSA to promulgate those regulations. Pp. 5–14.

(i) MacLean’s disclosure was not prohibited by the TSA’s regulations for purposes of Section 2302(b)(8)(A) because regulations do not qualify as “law” under that statute. Throughout Section 2302, Congress repeatedly used the phrase “law, rule, or regulation.” but Congress did not use that phrase in the statutory language at issue here; it used the word “law” standing alone. Congress’s choice to say “specifically prohibited by law,” instead of “specifically prohibited by law, rule, or regulation” suggests that Congress meant to exclude rules and regulations. ...
This isn't even the body of the discussion; this is only the summery. From this, we can see that the decision looked at the particular law under which MacLean was fired, and they held that that particular statute appeared to make a distinction between laws vs. rules and regulations.

There's a lot more in there. I don't think we can safely extrapolate from this decision to conclude that no regulations have the force of law.
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