458 socom vs 450 bushmaster anyone own one???

[folsoh]

I cant decide if I should go with a Wilson .458 Socom upper or a .450 Bushmaster (Bushmaster) upper to go with my last completed lower AR-15. I am wanting to go with a big bore for the last one.

I have three in 5.56, one in 300 Blackout, one AR-10 308. I am wanting to hunt with it and have some fun shooting a big bore AR. I also reload my own ammo.

Anyone own one or have any comments or like to share anything???

[Wyosmith]

The 458 SOCOM is a bottle necked rifle shell that used .458" diameter rifles bullets in weights from 300 to 500 (or even 600) grains

The 450 Bushmaster is a straight wall rifle shell which resembel4s a stretched pistol shell and uses pistol bullets of .451" or .452" diameter, going from 200 to about 325 grains. If you use the hard cast of the best jacketed bullets you can find for the Bushmaster it is a very good shell even for elk and larger sized game within it's range. The idea of the Bushmaster came from Jeff Coopers "thumper" which was a concept of extreme power in an anti-personal weapon but that set of standards spills over very well to some kinds of hunting too.

Overall I prefer the SOCOM because it is set up for rifle bullets and a 300 gr HP bullet in a SOCOM will do all the Bushmaster will do with any expanding bullet and a bit more.

Added to this is the fact that it works very well with 350 grain bullets, 400 grain, 405 grain ,450 grain and 500 grain is jacketed types, AND also with hard cast gas checked bullets up to 500 grains and if you keep you velocity down to 1400 FPS of less it's well served with 400 grain hard cast plane bases bullets too.

Now none of these fact mean much if the biggest animal you will hunt is a deer. In fact both shells are actually a bit "overkill" on deer, but so what? So is a 12 gauge with a slug and that doesn't mean hunters should stop using them.

In a nut shell, if you intend to hunt deer and pigs, flip a coin, or just get which ever you like best.

Bushmaster ammo is a bit easier to get then SOCOM ammo but if you reload your own ammo that means nothing for either shell over the other.

If you are going to use it on elk, moose, bears, REALLY large pigs, or buffalo, the SOCOM will cover the bases better.

But they overlap enough that I doubt either would disappoint you.

[FrankenMauser]

I owned a .458 SOCOM. It was only replaced because I side-stepped into a .475 Tremor (.458 SOCOM necked up for .475" bullets). There was nothing wrong with the .458 SOCOM - I just though the velocity/bullet combination was better with .475" handgun bullets, and I still have the option to run (very tough) rifle bullets.

I chose the SOCOM over .450 Bushmaster because of the rifle bullet vs pistol bullet concept. I wanted the tougher bullets. Also because I hate rifle cases - especially in semi-autos - that head space on the case mouth. Because I didn't want to need special magazines for the cartridge. And because I reload.

You may note that I went back to "handgun bullets" after originally choosing .458 SOCOM based on the use of rifle bullets. But the .475" bullets are tougher than most "equivalent" bullets in .451"/.452", because they're designed for .475 Linebaugh and .480 Ruger.

If I only shot factory ammo, the Bushmaster would have had a better shot at getting the job. Ammo is much more available, and cheaper.

[Kevin Rohrer]

The SOCOM is supposed to be a more reliable feeder due to the shape, as opposed to straight-wall casings.

The SOCOM case is not acceptable in states like Ohio that require straight-wall cases for deer.

[stagpanther]

I chose to build a 458 socom when faced with the same choice--as wyo noted and my opinion also the 458 has advantages in having a shoulder to headspace on and generally more aerodynamic bullet profiles. Lots of effort by Teppo Jutsu in refining this cartridge--get in touch with Tromix and you'll be able to access everything you need to build a fine thumper. And thumper it is. : )

[mavracer]

But the .475" bullets are tougher than most "equivalent" bullets in .451"/.452", because they're designed for .475 Linebaugh and .480 Ruger.

There are plenty of tough .452 bullets that are designed for the 454 Casull and 460 S&W magnum.

[MarkCO]

When I had the same choice, I went with the .450BM. I still have a .450BM upper, but I mostly shoot my .450 Corvette. I made a barrel with a faster twist and a rifle length gas system. It is closer to what Tim LeGendre had in mind, and with higher pressures. I have shot Elk, Deer, Pigs and had great performance with it. It laps the .458 Socom. I had no complaints with the .450BM, but when Tim talked about the Corvette, that was too tempting to pass up.

Plenty of tough bullets out there for the .450 and factory ammo is available, and getting to be more so, as is brass bullets and components. With minor ballistics differences, I went with one that offered a wider array of bullets for plinking, target and game that ranged from economical to effective.

Followers are easy to make if you can't find the black ones from BM, but they are more prevalent now.

[T. O'Heir]

AR's are evil up here for hunting. Considered the same as a handgun legally.
Anyway, whichever one is easiest and least expensive to buy/find brass and/or ammo locally. On-line, it appears to be the Bushmaster for brass. The SOCOM for loaded ammo.
Midway lists 20 different SOCOM ammo loads. Only 4 are on backorder. Downside is the stuff starts at $40 per 20. They list only 4 Bushmaster loads, one of which is on backorder. Starts at $30 per 20 and that's the backorder stuff. Remington brand runs $33.99 per 20.
Bushmaster brass is from Starline(Hornady makes it when they feel like it.). Runs $33.99 per 50. $329.99 per 500. Currently on sale at $30.59 - $296.99 respectively.
SOCOM brass is Starline only, currently on sale, at $74.69 per 100 or $350.99 per 500.
Graf's says they have Hornady Bushmaster brass in stock at $38.99 per 50. $72.99 for 100 pcs of Starline brass.
Starline SOCOM brass runs $78.79 per 100 for brass cases. $86.99 per 100 for nickeled
No Bushmaster ammo in stock. It runs $28.49 per 20 for Hornady and $31.79 per 20 for Remington when they do.
$55.99 per 20 for SOCOM from PCI only.

[MarkCO]

T. O'Heir, BM ammo has been much easier, and cheaper to find than SOCOM ammo up until about 4 or 5 months ago. This is the first year for several states that allow the straight walled cases for deer in the various seasons. Orders from Distributors and Dealers came a little late and the ammo companies could not get 450BM ammo into the production mix in time. It is a year one bump more than anything else. I have seen 2 or 3 new BM factory loadings every year for the last 5, so it is on an upward swing still.

[FrankenMauser]

There are plenty of tough .452 bullets that are designed for the 454 Casull and 460 S&W magnum.

There are some. I wouldn't say there are plenty.
And the tough .451/.452 bullets that are available are rather expensive. Most that I have looked at are even more expensive than .475" bullets (including some ultra-premium rifle bullets).




Both cartridges get the job done.
I chose a case with a shoulder and the option for rifle bullets - not "tough" handgun bullets that cost even more than the Woodleigh Weldcores that my father feeds his .450 Nitro.
If I wanted a straight-walled .451-.454" cartridge in a rifle, I'd buy a Big Horn Armory Model 90 in .460 S&W Magnum.

[stagpanther]

Well, looks like Wilson Combat has their own answer to this question--pretty interesting they've also rolled out a new class of AR that appears fit between the 15 and 10.
http://shopwilsoncombat.com/458-HAMR...eid=ae219947d1

[TimW77]

BOTH of these cartridges are excellent and are more alike than different...

For me, I decided to go with the .458 Socom for one major reason...

The only real difference to me was the type bullets each shoots, the Socom shoots .458" RIFLE bullets where the .450 Shoots .451" HANDGUN bullets...

I wanted the wider range of these RIFLE bullets (140g to 600g)...

T.

[MarkCO]

FWIW, I shoot several ".458 RIFLE" bullets in my .450s, simple swage operation. But I also shoot several ".452 RIFLE" bullets in my .450s. The spread is that the .458 really can't shoot inexpensive .452 pistol bullets.

[Wyosmith]

T.OHeir, I am wondering------------
In Canada and also in places where "Evil Autos"are not legal for hunting, would there be anything wrong with building an AR type rifle with no gas port and no gas system?
In effect the rifle would then become a "straight-pull-action". Almost like a Schmidt/Rubin but without the need to push forward. Just pull back and let go.

You'd put an oversize latch on the charging handle and just retract with your hand and let go. The main spring would then chamber the next round. With no gas port, gas manifold, gas-tube or gas key, the gun would be 100% manual, but all the calibers of an AR would be available just as if it were an auto.

I made 3 such rifles for a law enforcement agency in 300 Black-Out for their Animal Control Officers. They permanently installed suppressors on them, but by making them manual they are even quieter than they would be as autos. When they were finished they were amazingly quite, firing 200 grain bullets at 1050 FPS.

But that fact that the guns works so well keeps it in the back of my mind for those jurisdictions where "Evil-Autos" are not allowed.

Keeping the pressure a bit low makes working the bolt from the shoulder quite fast and easy.

[TimW77]

"FWIW"

Absolutely NOTHING!


"...simple swage operation."

So simple hardly anyone does it, what maybe 0.1% of reloaders swage bullets? Might even be 0.1% of bullet casters, a far more minuscule number of people! There is GOOD REASON so few people swage their bullets...


".452 RIFLE" bullets...

They are STILL made for handguns...


"The spread is that the .458 really can't shoot inexpensive .452 pistol bullets."

Trying to prove your point, you conveniently fail to mention "bumping up 452" bullets to .458"... Some people will do that but like swaging bullets down, an extra step so few people do it that it is hardly worth mentioning!

Although I don't do it many people say they get very good results "shooting inexpensive .452 pistol bullets".

Do what you want but I'm not wasting my very limited time with a silly swaging operation...

T