223 Seating Depth

[Bucksnort1]

My Lee Second Edition calls for a C.O.A.L. for the 223 to be 2.260". Don't recall manufacturer of my 55 grain PSP bullets but they do have cannelures. I seated to 2.260" but case mouth is approx .031" below cannelure. Should I leave as is or seat bullet to cannellure?

[mehavey]

The 2.26" figure is listed to be MAX length, not necessarily proper OAL.
Go to the bullet manufacturer's listing for more proper OAL for each specific bullet design/manufacturer

.... even if they're all the same weight.

.

[Shadow9mm]

Personal, I would seat to the middle of the cannelure. Just make sure your working up from start.

For whatever its worth, hornady recommended a col of 2.200 for their 55g sp.

[tangolima]

Just pretend the cannelure is not there.

I vary powder charge and COAL for best performance. For the the latter, I start with the max of 2.26”, and increase the seating depth in steps of 0.0125”. Pick the best point for my needs.

That's the basic idea. In practice you will encounter more limitations, which you will find out when you are actually doing it.

-TL

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[Unclenick]

The SAAMi standard drawing calls for the 223 Remington's COL to be 2.125" min to 2.260" max. So you can certainly seat deeper without going outside SAAMI numbers. However, keep in mind those numbers are so manufacturers following the standard don't produce ammo that won't fit in a magazine or fail to feed in guns belonging to people the manufacturers don't know and with whose guns he can't test his product. As a handloader, you get to break those rules when it works better for you and your guns to do that.

[Metal god]

I agree with everything said so far . I’ll add when I have adequate bullet hold I seat my Hornady 55gr fmj so the bottom of the cannelure is just touching the case mouth ( cannelure is fully exposed atop the case mouth ) . I want to say that’s right around 2.400 ??? . If I’m crimping that same bullet I seat to where I can just barely see the top of the cannelure on the top of the case mouth and don’t even care what that coal is I just set the die accordingly. I’ve found cheap no name bullets tend to have inconsistent cannelure placement which screws everything I just said above . What I do with those bullets is ……….. Nothing they are stored for the zombie apocalypse.

[HiBC]

I want to say that’s right around 2.400

I suspect you made an error. 2.4 is a bit long.

OP. you identify your bullets as pointed soft points. A cannelure CAN be used to lock the core and jacket together. But I suspect its a crimp feature.

Folks argue. Some crimp 223 and some don't. The idea for crimping is bullet setback during feeding. I'm not interested in arguing it. Some say a light Lee factory crimp die crimp is good for accuracy. I do not crimp.

If you are going to crimp, the cannelure is designed to allow the metal to displace. The bullet is not compressible. It can be distorted if you don't crimp into the cannelure.
In your application, I'd seat to hide most of the cannelure but still be able to see maybe ,010 on or so. That way,of you DO decide to run them through the Lee Factory Crimp Die.it will all be good.

[Metal god]

Haha yeah 2.240 ;-/

[Nick_C_S]

This:

The 2.26" figure is listed to be MAX length, not necessarily proper OAL.

And this:

Personal(ly), I would seat to the middle of the cannelure.

I'm relatively new to 223 so my word is certainly not gospel. My 223 firearm is an AR platform. You didn't mention what you have. If it's a bolt-action, different loading techniques (including OAL) can apply. For me, if the bullet has a cannelure, I leave my calipers in their case and seat and crimp at the cannelure (a little tongue-n-cheek there, I still measure them). I guess that may just be my "carry over" from 38 years of loading handgun bullets. The cannelure is there for a reason, so I use it. So far, this mindset hasn't failed me at all - I have yet to have one of my hand-loaded cannelured bullet rounds fail to fire, feed, or eject. And they all fit in the magazines with room to spare.

I load the Hornady 55gn FMJ-BT cannelured bullet and the OAL ends up to be 2.197". I also load the Hornady 55gn V-Max cannelured bullet and its OAL is 2.225". As a side note, I also load the 55gn V-Max in the non-cannelured variety, and I just keep the OAL the same, for consistency. All of these function great in my gun, so I see no need to make any changes. I'm just sharing these OAL's as a "for instance." I don't what bullet you have and I don't know your trim length, so I have no way of knowing what your OAL will be if seated at the cannelure. But I suspect it'll be about 2.229" if your measurements (and my math ) are correct.

[zeke]

You might also want to consider how long a col the chamber(s) will accept with that particular bullet. If everything else is fine, i go with what functions best, not where the cannelure is. Function may include bullet setback, or pull.

[Bucksnort1]

I like the way these look with the bullet seated to the cannelure so, based on your responses, I will leave them the way they are.

For a number of years, When I first began reloading, I would organize bullets in small plastic containers. I would cut information from packaging then place it in the appropriate box. I must have neglected to do this with these bullets but I think I’m correct when I say they are Hornady V-Max. If I’m wrong about this, just remember the two rules under which Bucksnort operates.

Rule One: Bucksnort is always right.

Rule Two: If Bucksnort is wrong, see rule one.

Thanks for all the feedback.

[totaldla]

2.26" is common for 77gr and too long for cheap 55gr - I think what you read is not connected to the load data for your 55gr bullet.

[mehavey]

Let me give the OP an example:

223/52gr SMK
SIERRA load data says OAL 2.225"

My standard-chambered Krieger barrel:
2.235" is 0.005" off of lands
2.245" is 0.005" into lands

You get the picture... bullet-specific.
NOT 1-size 2.26" fits all.
Follow the specific bullet manufacturer, or do actual distance-to-lands measurements

[tangolima]

I don't know. My 55gr load for AR is 2.25". It is about 1mm below cannelure. Even with that, bullet jump is 0.05” or more. Cheap new barrel with 5.56 NATO chambering.

Plenty of bullets are without cannelure. They work for semi auto just fine, even without any crimping.

-TL

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[Unclenick]

Bucksnort1,

V-max bullets have a red plastic tip. They're not a Pointed Soft-Point. If the bullets are PSP from Hornady, they would be from their varmint line, which have flat bases and soft points and have been around for a long time, and are available both with and without cannelures.

[44 AMP]

Function may include bullet setback, or pull.

Do you mean "in the gun" or are you referring to seating depth??

Not sure why, but no one putting out data these days makes a point of stating that the max overall loaded length is not something you must achieve, its something to avoid exceeding.

Also unclear to me is that when they do give a COAL shorter than max, is that a recommendation, or simply what the length winds up being??

Bullets of the same weight, seated to the same depth in the case can have different over all cartridge lengths due to differences in the bullet tip design.

Cannelures on bullets (and crimp grooves) are there for when you need them. When you don't need them, you can ignore them. There are several cartridges and firearms designs where you DO need them.

[PA-Joe]

Bullets have different shapes. A long slender bullet will go deeper into the barrel then a wide round nose. They give a different COAL for the wider bullet shapes. That is still a recommendation as your chamber may be cut larger or smaller.

[MarkCO]

I like to use 2.23" when I can. My 55 fmj plinker load that I use for competition out to 200 yards is 2.23".

My 69 TMK load for long range is 2.24. That was the best all things considered for my rifles.

Looking at my .223 data sheet, I have loads from 2.15 to 2.268. But all were worked up from a start load with a specific OAL from the manufacturer.

[mgulino]

Cannulure or not, I seat 55 grain FMJs or SPs to 2.23. Kinda poetic.

[tangolima]

I just test fired a new 62gr load. 2.195” gives the best. The cannelure sinks below sea level.

-TL

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[rg1]

Hornady 55 gr Spire Points the recommended oal is 2.200”. I load them from 2.218” to 2.230”. Or seat them to mid cannelures and you will be fine. Sharp pointed 55gr FMJ’s at 2.250” and 77gr bthp match get loaded to 2.255” all for multiple guns. 2.260” is a maximum magazine length and my loads are a tiny bit more reliable in some AR’S. I crimp if the bullet has a crimp groove and don’t for non cannelures. On my one .223 bolt rifle 2.246” is the max oal for the bolt to close With Hornady 55 SP’s.

[HiBC]

A general rule that may not always apply:

If your barrel is marked .223, it will have a 1 in 10 or slower twist tailored to light varmint bullets generally up to 55 gr. The accuracy/ benchrest crowd can make gains measuring/testing /obsessing over seating depth/jump.etc. These are typically loaded shorter than 2,260. Maybe 2.2. Cannelure length
would be typical. Cannelures and crimps have advantages for battle ammo.
Lets not forget there are .223 bolt varmint /target guns that may not use military magazines.

The .223 Wylde chamber is designed for match shooting. The barrel typically has tighter twist for long range heavy bullets. These may be 80 + grains and some loads for 600 yds ,etc don't get magazine loaded. They are(can be) single loaded. Typically 75-77 gr bullets get loaded to mag length,near 2,260

The Wylde chamber is toleranced for accuracy on the case body but it has a longer throat to accomodate the long,heavy bullets. You are unlikely to contact rifling with 55 gr bullets. Or even get close. With the long throat,some say the primer can unseat the bullet before good ignition. Some say a light Lee Factory Crimp into a cannelure can provide more consistent ignition and better accuracy when using 55 gr bullets in a Wylde chamber. Kind of like why we crimp in a revolver. Some say. I generally don't load 55's and I don't crimp. But they may have something,

The military 5,56 chamber /barrel may allow a bit more "looseness" for reliability. Bullets are 68 gr +. SDMR s and SOCOM,etc may get 77 gr loads .

Military 5,56 chambers will be throated to handle heavy bullets.

If you are inclined to find the lands and load to a specific "jump" you may find accuracy gains but more likely we load to the magazine, At least I do.

[Unclenick]

I once bought a box of HSM 223 loaded with 80-grain SMKs that were seated with the shoulder of the ogive below flush with the case mouth so they would still fit in an AR magazine. Shot just fine. The small annular gap at the case mouth didn't make any difference.

[stagpanther]

I once bought a box of HSM 223 loaded with 80-grain SMKs that were seated with the shoulder of the ogive below flush with the case mouth so they would still fit in an AR magazine. Shot just fine. The small annular gap at the case mouth didn't make any difference.

I've often wondered about that. I built a 284 win AR and end up doing the same thing with longer high BC bullets, but found evidence of bullet creep in the dynamic environment of AR cycling. I suspect that having a full or compressed charge might alleviate that but that too carries its own risk I would think if the bullet somehow ends up further compressing the charge.

[tangolima]

High BC is for longer range. It requires BC and MV to work. Sticking the bullet lower into the brass lessens the case capacity, which lessens MV. That probably washes out the benefits of high BC bullet.

For medium range, less than 300yd for instance, I'd rather use lower-BC, but shorter, bullet to maintain higher MV. It may work out better. I have found flat-base bullets doing better than boat-tail. They have more straight shank for bearing surface and bullet hold. Accuracy is better. Just something I have learned.

-TL

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