1911 Hammer drop (with video)

[pete2]

Sounds like you got a target trigger job, normal was to hold the trigger back so the hammer won't follow, holding the trigger back also protects the sear edge to prevent damage. A very light pull has no business on a carry or defense gun.
A negligent discharge is a lot more likely with a 2 Lb trigger than a 5 lb trigger. I don't lighten a trigger on a carry gun for this reason. 4 to 4-1/2 lb is plenty light and a lot safer.
My 2 cents.

[Mike_Fontenot]

Originally Posted by 45Gunner

[...]
In case you're wondering what strange things started to happen, the most common was the grip safety was taken out of the equation and the guns would shoot without gripping the grip safety.
[...]

So either the grip-lever was no longer blocking the trigger (maybe due to wear of the grip-lever, or perhaps the grip-lever leg of the sear spring had gotten so weak that nothing was holding the grip lever in its aft position), or else the hammer was being released even though the trigger wasn't pressing on the sear ... if so, perhaps the sear-leg of the sear spring had gotten so light that a jar to the gun could rotate the sear off the hammer.

Originally Posted by 45Gunner

[...]
Another thing that started to happen is that every once in awhile, the gun would fire off and cycle two or more rounds with a single pull of the trigger.
[...]

When I got that hammer-follow while chambering a first round at the range (which was not prevented, as it usually would have been, by my normal procedure of staying off the grip lever during first-round chambering ... I must have inadvertently compressed the lever a bit), I checked my trigger pull when I got home, and found that it had decreased 1/4lb, down to about 2-1/4lb ... apparently the disconnector/trigger leg of the sear spring had weakened over time. But even with this 2-1/4lb trigger, I NEVER had any doubling when I was actually firing ... I think that's because I never "slap" the trigger like some shooters do (presumably in order to get a quicker reset and faster follow-up shots) ... I always fully pull the trigger to the rear stop, and hold it there until after the slide slams home ... that keeps the trigger from resetting, and it isn't connected to the sear. (That's also why some of the bulls-eye shooters hold the trigger back while releasing the slide ... same effect).

I doubt that I'll adopt that bulls-eye technique as a way to prevent hammer-follows when I chamber a first round ... it is inconsistent with the whole philosophy of keeping the finger out of the trigger guard until ready to fire. Instead, I'm going to ALWAYS grip the gun completely below the bottom of the grip-lever whenever I chamber a first round, to insure that the trigger stays blocked. Also, on my Kimber, my firing-pin is also blocked during that operation, which insures that the gun won't fire even if the sear somehow gets jiggled off the hammer ledge.

I'm also going to keep my trigger at the current 3 lbs, even though I much preferred it when it was lighter. And I'm going to monitor the trigger pull (with my gauge) fairly often, to insure that the sear spring isn't getting weaker with time. (And, if I ever decide that I need a stronger-still recoil spring, I'll need to increase the trigger pull some more, and test it with dummy rounds to insure that it doesn't hammer-follow).

My perfect trigger will have to be limited to my S&W69 .44mag (2-1/2 lbs, but feels like nothing ... don't TOUCH it until ready to fire). I maintain that even that trigger is safe for carry, provided that it is treated like "a switch" that must not be touched until ready to fire.

[James K]

A trigger pull of 2 1/2 to 2 3/4 pounds is normal on an S&W revolver, but you only get that pull after manually cocking the hammer. I would not enter a potentially questionable situation with a revolver hammer cocked, and I would not enter the same situation with the hammer of an SA pistol cocked and safety off with the same pull weight.

Now I will admit, for the record, that I have never been in a gun fight; I have never shot anyone or even fired at anyone, nor have I ever been fired at by anyone. But when I carried a badge, I was in a few situations where I thought that might change in one or more aspects, and I would not have wanted to be carrying a gun with a trigger pull so light that a brush on my clothing could have fired a shot.

We all, I think, tend to believe that if we are ever in a crisis situation, we will be calm, cool and collected, just like on the range. Perfect stance, perfect sight picture, perfect trigger control. As I said, my experience has been limited and I am sure others posting on here have been in dozens of gunfights (or claim to have been), but I was pretty stressed out by even the possibility of bullets flying around. I don't think a super light target pull on a pistol (or having the hammer cocked on a revolver against regulations) would have done much toward reducing stress.

Jim

[44 AMP]

While it is not often easy to get a fine trigger pull it can be done, and done without dangerously light weight.

Light weight can mask "flaws" in the trigger pull, and so seems better but a good trigger of 4-7lbs is just as good a trigger and safer. I marvel at the fellow who can tell the difference between a 2.5lb and a 3lb pull. when all else is the same. I cannot.

There is a point, with a semi auto where the trigger simply can be too light for safety. Even the jar of the mechanism working can trip it, and that is simply TOO LIGHT!

No, it doesn't have to be a 14lb long stagey, gritty trigger with a half mile of take up and a quarter mile of overtravel, but a <3lb trigger on a 1911 pattern gun is just courting trouble, IMHO.

YOU aren't the only thing that can pull the trigger, and a pull weight close to, or less than the weight of the gun is a risky business.

Despite the fact that it makes a good target gun, when so fitted, the 1911A1 wasn't designed as one, it was designed as a service weapon, so there is a limit to what one can, and should do to the trigger, otherwise, "you're off the map, lad, there be dragons here!!"

[raimius]

If the hammer drops without the trigger being pulled, it is a DANGEROUS firearm.
The M1911A1 is not supposed to do that. Get it fixed (probably not by the guy who broke it).


I had that same issue, because I tweaked the sear spring during a detail strip/reassembly. The next time at the range, the hammer followed the slide once or twice on loading (within about 200rds). The third time the hammer followed the slide, it did so with enough force to fire the round in the chamber! (Thankfully, following the 4 Rules includes muzzle discipline, and the round hit somewhere 50-110yds downrange.)
The trigger was reset to 3.5lbs, from the 2.5lbs I had it set to. That fixed the issue.

[Mike_Fontenot]

Originally Posted by James_K

A trigger pull of 2 1/2 to 2 3/4 pounds is normal on an S&W revolver, but you only get that pull after manually cocking the hammer. I would not enter a potentially questionable situation with a revolver hammer cocked, and I would not enter the same situation with the hammer of an SA pistol cocked and safety off with the same pull weight.
[...]

I agree. But I don't cock my 69, and I don't switch off the two safeties of my 1911, until I'm coming onto target and nearly ready to shoot.

[Mike_Fontenot]

Originally Posted by 44_AMP

<3lb trigger on a 1911 pattern gun is just courting trouble, IMHO.
[...]
YOU aren't the only thing that can pull the trigger, [...]

When the only thing that is preventing my 1911 from firing is the trigger not being pulled, I am on or very nearly on target, almost ready to shoot. During that brief time, I don't regard a very light trigger as inappropriate. At all other times, my 1911 has several other features that are preventing firing ... thumb safety blocks sear and hammer, grip-lever blocks trigger and firing-pin ... it's not going to fire even if something does exert a force on the trigger.

[Mike_Fontenot]

Originally Posted by raimius

If the hammer drops without the trigger being pulled, it is a DANGEROUS firearm.
[...]
The trigger was reset to 3.5lbs, from the 2.5lbs I had it set to. That fixed the issue.

I did the same, except that 3 lb was enough to solve the hammer-follow problem. I primarily did it to protect other people who might shoot my gun. My handling procedures protect me from hammer-follow, regardless of the lightness of the trigger: whenever I am not on or nearly on target, my thumb safety is ON, and I'm staying off the grip-lever. When I'm forced to have the thumb safety off, when I'm not on or nearly on target (like when chambering the first round, or when ejecting a live round), I keep my grip completely below the bottom of the grip lever so that I can't inadvertently compress it even a little bit, to insure that my trigger AND firing-pin are blocked.