Palmetto State Armory Censored Reviews

[folsoh]

I wanted to let everyone know that Palmetto State Armory censor's their reviews as mine has not been posted to the site on a gun that I purchased and had problems with. In order to leave the review, I had to prove that I purchased the item from them. I notice this item however currently has all 5 star reviews. I am reporting this to the better business bureau, but I wanted to post this here to warn anyone before they purchase an item from them.

On a black Friday sale, I purchased an AR-15 pistol in 6.5 grendel with a 12 inch barrel that was on sale. My buddy and I both purchased ours on the same day to use in alternative weapons season to take our kids hunting and just to own one. After two weeks they arrived at our local gun store and we picked them up. We both sighted them in together. His impressively shot under one inch MOA using hornady 123 grain factory bullets. Mine did not. I shot like a shotgun pattern. On paper at 25 yards it didn't do to bad, but when we shot it at 100 and 200 yards it was bad real bad.

So we started trouble shooting it. We are both prior military and I am a retired State Trooper and previous rifle instructor. We shot each others neither of us could get mine to shoot a group. His gun we both shot under MOA with at 100 yrds. I bought a new 3 pound trigger, clean the gun thoroughly and we switch scopes. Nothing seem to help the gun. My scope zeroed right in on his gun. I took the gun apart and check the barrel nut it was tight within specs. I tried three different brand 123 grain factory bullets and it still would not group firing over 200 rounds and cleaning several times. The best group was 4 inches MOA at 100 yrds with bullets hitting randomly in pattern with letting the barrel cool between shots. I also tested rapid fire 3 shot groups. The gun always function flawlessly, but would not group enough to shoot past 100 yards safely for hunting. Mean while we were ringing steel with my buddies gun at 300 yards. My average gun group was 5 to 6 inches MOA at 100 yards. I troubled shooted this gun several more times and consulted a gunsmith who told me it probably had a bad barrel and that it happens. He said it could be milled bad, have defective steel or other issues. He said call the manufacture and see what they would do since it was less than a month old.

I tried to contact them, but their phones were down several days. I finally got through and the customer service was awesome. They agreed it probably was a bad barrel.
They sent a prepaid label and I only shipped the upper back. I sent several targets in with it showing its cold barrel grouping and rapid 3 shot grouping at 100 yards. I even showed the scope after, I put in on the other gun zeroed in under 1 inch MOA and a box test, I did with it. I wrote a nice letter and sent it in with the upper. Several weeks went by and I get an email saying nothing is wrong with the upper and its being returned with a target. I got it yesterday. I open the box and there is all my targets and letter I wrote explaining all this and what I had done in the box with the upper. I look further and there is a 300 meter/ 25 yard military style AR target in the box with a less than one inch MOA three shot group with a hand written note. "There is nothing wrong with this upper. It was shot at 25 yards and functions fine." Shot with 123 grain Hornady ammo.

My question is why was the gun not shot at 100 yards? Is this acceptable, I think not. I bought this gun to hunt with and I am sure not all my shots will be within 25 yards. How do you test a barrel with only three shots at 25 yards. So, I called them and of course the floor manager is supposed to call me back and did not for the last 48 hours. No one will speak to me about this 3 shots at 25 yard test. I called a couple times now. I went on their website to leave basically this same review. They deleted it even after I proved that I had purchased the gun. I tried to leave the review again and it says, "You have already reviewed this product."

I guess I will replace the barrel at my own expense as during all this I even used the scope on a different gun and it zeroed fine. I will buy a better quality barrel, but to delete an actual review and not contact a true customer is disgraceful. Sad fact is its a really fun gun to shoot and I would have purchase more items from them in the future. No one accepts a gun that only groups at 25 yards and isn't quality controlled or tested further than that. Almost every gun manufacture now comes with an under one inch MOA at 100 yard warranty. Additionally after I provided targets and a nice letter telling them that its issue was grouping at 100 yards to shoot it at 25 yards is disgraceful. I reload alot of ammo and you can't even begin to tell what a bullet is doing until it passes 100 yards with most showing issues at 200 yards plus.

Buyer Beware when it comes to Palmetto State Armory. One a side note, I almost didn't even buy the gun because of the fact that they have been investigated two times for having customers credit card numbers stolen twice in 2019, which they blamed on Russian hackers. I used a credit card , I only use for emergencies just to buy the gun. So again remember you get what you pay for sometimes a deal isn't always a deal.

[riffraff]

Thanks for the feedback, sucks they are treating you like someone who just can't shoot..

I've always been both tempted and skeptical of PSA, though many highly recommend them there are a variety of bad reports out there too. I question things like how FN, Spikes, who sell FN barrels need to charge so much more for the "same" barrel PSA sources vis FN. They are also a brand my local FFL refuses to order, has his own brand, likes Aero and others, is willing to order me up any odd gun or lower I've asked for but won't touch a PSA part.

I say god bless PSA for cranking out a zillion ok working budget minded ARs, but I likely will never own one.

[rickyrick]

In the time between 2014 and 2016 my bank was hit on two different occasions. Both times the bank traced it back to PSA. I used to post warnings about them, but many people weren’t receptive to the idea that PSA had some shady employees. I eventually stopped giving PSA poor recommendations because many people had assured me that PSA had eliminated the issue of people’s bank accounts getting robbed. By reading this post, I see that it may indeed still be an issue.
I purchased a few components from PSA after my initial problems with the company using burner credit cards, but I eventually stopped buying any products from them.
The products that I do have from them have been good.
A good product doesn’t excuse theft from customers. I really get the heebie jeebies from a gun company that obviously has criminals working at their facility. I am disappointed to read that people are still having issues with bank card theft.

[ed308]

I haven't experienced problems with PSA except for maybe one time. And I've order a lot from them in the past but nothing in the last 4-5 years. I've even purchased a couple uppers from them and they've grouped as expected. I would not be happy with that barrel or their response.

[Metal god]

I’ve had a couple issues with them most recent was a out of spec chamber on a PA 10 . Long story short it appears they consider a chamber .001 of an inch short of a field gauge iscwithin spec because that’s what my chamber is and they tell me it’s good to go . I did return it and they replace the barrel and I got back a barrel with the exact same chamber size so I gave up on them trying to fix it because they kept telling me I was good to go . For a short time I was considering returning it for a refund but decided not to because it was so inexpensive I couldn’t buy the upper , hand guard , bolt carrier group etc. individually for the same price I bought the whole upper so I’ll just replace the barrel and still come out ahead in all actuality .

Yep it sucks when you deal with budget firearms with high volume low quality control . Lemons slip through for sure and it appears at times they’re not willing to except they make lemons . I recently got a A.R. 15 upper from them with the Canted front sight base which throws my rear sight off way to left . I thought about complaining but just decided I’ll deal with it my self .

EDIT .

I'll also add I've bought many uppers and parts from them that work just fine . In fact I bought a 18" AR-15 barrel for $99 with free shipping . It had a rough chamber but is very accurate . Might be my most accurate and I've got a bunch .

[rickyrick]

Amazing that this is still going on five years after my experience.
With PSA there’s a lot of cognitive dissonance amongst the firearms enthusiasts because a lot of people enjoy their product and the low costs.
I believe that this is a major issue that the company is aware of. They are trying to hide it. I think it’s criminal, I know for fact that you’re taking a gamble when dealing with them. My bank was hit, I have first hand experience.

[NoSecondBest]

Sign up and post on Google reviews. I use it all the time and it's been very effective in getting quality issues resolved with several companies. The BBB is also a good addition to the Google review. Social media is a very powerful tool. Any company that sorts reviews shouldn't be dealt with to begin with. Post that in the Google review also.

[Kreyzhorse]

That sucks.

I own a couple of uppers from them and they have been excellent. Honestly, I bought them due to their low price and they were simply going on plinking guns. That said, they are very accurate and trouble free. Way more accurate than what I expected for the money.

Bad barrels do happen and I've seen a Bear Creek barrel do exactly what you described.

Best of luck getting yours straight.

[rickyrick]

Every item from PSA has been great, I will clarify. The business practice is atrocious

[FrankenMauser]

PSA, CRA/BHW, and quite a few other places do the same.
I've had reviews deleted, censored, altered, or hidden by about half a dozen places, including all three mentioned in the previous sentence.

Never trust reviews on the manufacturer's own website or an exclusive vendor's website.

[9x19]

It's mostly pointless to post reviews, IMO.

Exampe: I've been a customer at PSA for about a decade... never had my credit info taken, never had a faulty product. Have had slow shipping a time or two.

No matter how good or how bad you've had it with a company, there is almost always someone who's had the opposite experience. (Like your friend)

Hope you get the bad barrel issue sorted. Any chance you can remove the muzzle device and inspect the crown... maybe shoot it before re-installing it... I have had muzzle devices which negatively affected accuracy.

My 12" 6.5 Grendel upper from PSA is one of my favorites.

[jetinteriorguy]

I purchased a rifle in 6.5 CM and after shooting it and tuning the gas block it was sub MOA all day long, barrel temp didn't seem affect group size other than a slight shift in POI. But, the brass came out full of scratches and ring like marks, so I checked the chamber. It had some pretty distinct machining marks. I called, they emailed a shipping label, I boxed up the upper and sent it in. I received it back a little over a week later. Upon inspecting the chamber I could still make out some minor machining marks. I was disappointed they didn't replace the barrel, but just polished it instead. After shooting it the marks on the brass were gone and it still shot just as accurate as before, so even though they didn't replace the barrel as I had expected, they did fix the problem and I'm happy as can be with both the accuracy and reliability of this rifle.

[shurshot]

Devils advocate here. I understand your disappointment, but remember... you bought a PISTOL, not a rifle. And 25 yard 1" group for what is legally a handgun is superb accuracy. If it was sold as a RIFLE, 16" or longer barrel and with a full stock, then I can see where a decent 100 yard group would be expected and they would be obligated to make it right. But as they did NOT sell you a rifle, so why would they test shoot it at 100 yards??? It's a handgun and will likely only be guaranteed to accurately shoot as such. That will be their defense; . "industry standard, 25 yard pistol range accuracy, all handgun Manufacturers sight in at 25 yards, it's not a rifle," etc. All of which, is pretty much true.
That being said, if it groups 1" at 25 yards, it SHOULD group well under a fist sized pattern at 100 yards, hot barrel or not. I understand your disappointment as I would expect better accuracy as well.
I have an AR-15 pistol, a Windham Weaponry 5.56, but I didn't buy it for hunting, just for tin cans. The furthest I have plinked with it is 40 yards or so with a Vortex red dot scope, but its spot on. Fun little rig. If I couldn't get decent accuracy I would be upset too. Then again, I haven't tried it at 100 yards yet.
Getting the manufacturer to agree with you and make it right may be an uphill battle though, as they sold you a handgun by definition and they may not feel obligated to guarantee rifle like accuracy at 100 yards or more from that particular product as you were not using it in full accordance with the manufacturer's intended purpose (as a "Pistol"). Perhaps that is why they are not posting your review?

[O4L]

It is not unusual for two seemingly identical guns to shoot better with different types of ammo.

Try more types of ammo and find what your gun likes at longer ranges.

[IMtheNRA]

Did you pay with a credit card? You may be able to ask the issuer to reverse the charge due to a poor quality of product. See what the time limit is for your card.

[wbbh]

You can get a lemon from just about any manufacturer. I have no opinion on your particular pistol, however, since you sent in your firearm for repair and they decided it was in spec, they may have felt your review was not valid.

As for credit card issues, your CC information, unless you call in an order typically no human sees your number, the transactions are handled by computer. Smaller low volume sellers may be manually entering CC information, but that s the exception. There are many credit card processors between the merchants and your bank of CC issuer. You information can be compromised at any one of those steps after the merchant. Unless a major breech is reported, and many companies will not report them, it is very difficult to know exactly where your information was compromised.

[riffraff]

I don't know the story on the CC thing but poor security and data breaches would be my 1st suspicioun and not actual theft.

[Capt Rick Hiott]

Ive had more than one bad experience with them....Buyer Beware when it comes to Palmetto State Armory!!!

I reported it to the BBB

[rickyrick]

The bank fraud thing is very real. USAA traced two breaches of my account directly to PSA. I lost no money in the end, a huge inconvenience still occured, but doesn’t take away from the fact that known criminal activity occurred there, and was allowed to continue, over a several year span.

[stagpanther]

The bank fraud thing is very real. USAA traced two breaches of my account directly to PSA

My USAA credit card account has been breached several times over the last few years. I've worked closely with USAA--but they never actually told me the source of a breach. Not that I don't believe you--but how did you (they) find that out?

[Metal god]

What the hackers do is put in a Trojan horse or keystroke identifier thing and anytime 16 consecutive numbers are entered it sends that number to the hacker , the merchant may have no idea their data base has been breached . It could even be on your computer .

I never enter all 16 numbers in a row and often throw in letters then backspace them out then throw different numbers in backspace amount . Before I finish I may go fill in the expiration date then back to the card number then over to the security three digit number then back to the card number so nothing is consecutive when doing online Purchases . That however does not guarantee anything it’s just a extra precaution I do .

For what it’s worth I recently had a data breach and my bank gave me the name of the person doing it and asked me if I knew them . I guess every banks a little different and maybe even who’s helping you may change the outcome of what info you get .

[rickyrick]

It was a few years ago, but if I recall correctly, they said that the person who originated the breach “tested” the card info immediately after making purchases from PSA. First time was $0.11 cents, which triggered whatever security system was in place. After the test, purchases were attempted all over the country and even an attempted booking of a luxury hotel in Paris.
I had to get new card, new account numbers and all of that.
The next time I made a purchase from PSA, it happened again.

I had made several transactions from PSA, but the breaches were on small orders... first time was some magazines and a couple of boxes of ammunition. The next time was for a blemished BCG.
I’ve also purchased rifle kits, (larger dollar amounts) with no issues.
I read on a message board somewhere that this issue seemed to occur with only small purchases. It was theorized that maybe the person responsible thought it less likely for someone to immediately check their balance after a small purchase. Who knows.

I’ve complained about this issue on this forum before, but since I lost no real money and that some people online stated that the issue at PSA had been resolved, I stopped mentioning it. To hear that this is still continuing has kinda angered me.

I have bought some more small items since, one of them being a spare 6.8 BCG, but I’ve used burner prepaid cards as a precaution.

Usaa has been great, And with my cases the breaches were detected as the cards were tested and accounts shut down before I lost any money.

Living on cash for several days each time was a real pain in the rump though.

[stagpanther]

I think what usually happens is that a card number is "swept" in a database breach and then sold on "deep black market" websites. The digital path may easily lead to a user (or not). I try to avoid leaving card data in an e-cart site if I can help it--but many of them don't ask and do it automatically. If the e-commerce sites had some penalty associated with customer's data exploitation--you could be sure that their security would be better. Until that day--it's cheaper for them to let those costs be born by taxpayer's and bank account holders. Like you say, usually it's a pattern of low-cost purchases initially and then ramps up. Airline tickets are a favorite (and I've been hit by those as well) because most of those vendors do very little--to nothing at all--to authenticate the card's user validity. Just because you put a stop payment on the card doesn't mean the charges won't come in--the banks have to deal with each charge individually as they are submitted. When I've closed my USAA accounts I had to contest the validity of each and every fraudulent charge.

I seem to recall some years back that I had an item double charged at PSA and it took quite a fight to get that resolved. It was later explained to me they had problems with a customer representative who was no longer there, maybe that had something to do with the breech.

One thing I've noticed is that many vendors tend to empty their staff around holidays and the Shot Show, so that might be a time when their internal functions become more vulnerable.