back up gun or not?

[egor20]

Short answer, No.

But have no problem with those who have a reason to do so. I just don't have a reason to.

[James H]

Glenn-

You confused me with one of your statements.

Most seem to be deterrent, so one gun - even unloaded serves.

Unloaded? It's my understanding that if you carry concealed and pull a gun, you'd better be in a situation that requires you to pull the trigger on a live round. Or else YOU become the bad guy.

[m&p45acp10+1]

I have a back up gun that I carry in my pocket for more than one reason. First reason is as the saying goes "stuff happens.") Second I can have my hand in my pocket without looking like I am gonna pull a gun if a situation is looking dicey.

Note sometimes my pocket gun is my primary carry if clothing is not allowing of other carry options. I went over 10 years of carrying without a BUG. I carry one now because I have one.

[2guns]

Have you given any thought to the idea of getting some training (or additional training) instead of buying and carrying a second gun?

For the cost of a second gun you could take a defensive pistol course and that may be a better value.

[cougar gt-e]

If you NEED a BUG, you're probably lying on the ground bleeding profusely and spitting teeth and without extreme training you won't be able to pull, aim & fire a BUG. Get some training to increase your ability to identify situational dangers and learn to avoid them.

[Jimmy10mm]

A guy I know loves .... loves handguns. He routinely carried two and I always thought him a bit odd. Carrying one is a big enough PITA so I never thought I would find myself carrying two but never say you'll never.

The big change came when I bought a Kahr P380. I love shooting it and it has become the gun I most often carry. I work in a fairly high crime area where on a couple of occasions BGs have robbed stores and killed multiple victims even though the victims, as evidenced by the in store cameras, were cooperative.

So at work I am carrying a Kahr MK40 in a Bandera Gun Leather "Beltster" (highly recommended) and my P380 in my pocket. I hope I never need to use either one of them but since I am the one bearing the burden I don't worry about what anyone else may think of it.

[skoro]

Me personally I believe the odds of me ever needing to use a pistol outside of my home in a self defense situation is less than 20% and even less of ever needing a back up but 20% is plenty enough for me to carry but where do you draw the line?

20%

Wow...

If you're in a position where you estimate that you could be assaulted every fifth time you leave home, you'd probably be wise to wear body armor in addition to a back up gun. You might consider driving an armored humvee.

[Wag]

Deterrent? Guns are not deterrent tools. Period. There may be documentary cases which show that a gun deterred a criminal but those are merely cases where the criminal got lucky, nothing more. Thinking about a gun as a deterrent will more likely get you killed than not.

If you carry a BUG, does it make sense to be sure it uses the same ammo and mags as your primary weapon? As a matter of fact, does it make sense to attempt to carry the same weapon that your partner or S.O. is carrying?

--Wag--

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Folks misunderstood my comment. So don't get excited.

We have fairly good data that most DGUs are deterrent. That mean that most gun usages have no shot fired. So that belies a cliche that if you display a gun YOU MUST SHOOT.

No, you must be in a situation where it is legit to shoot. You don't have to.

Also, what I meant, and I guess I said it badly, was that carrying a bug is based on your risk criterion.

Empirically, you can handle most DGUs with an unloaded gun. If you need to shoot a gun, empirically you can handle it most likely with one and a few shots.

But, there are the low probability but intensive situations where you need more rounds and/or a Bug.

I was saying it is up to you where you set your risk cut off for the gear you carry.

You could cut off at no gun, an unloaded gun, one gun, the full bat belt - my favorite, or whatever.

So there's no absolute answer - it is your risk cutoff.

[Single Six]

On duty, I use a Ruger SP-101 .357 carried in a Galco Ankle Glove holster. Wouldn't want to go to work without it.

[oden]

Living in south Fl. if I have to go into south Miami I carry a Walther TPH in my watch pocket just behind my belt it cant be seen but easy to get if I cant use my Browning HP.
Works for me.

[Straightshooter629]

For normal daily carry, I don't carry a BUG. My daily carry weapon is my Rossi 462 in .357. I always carry two reloads, and with the reliability of a revolver, I don't feel the need for a BUG. When I'm working, it's a different story. My Rossi becomes my BUG to my XD40.

[psyshack]

Glenn,,,,, here brandishing a weapon is real bad. A firearm is a in the hand or shoulder nuke. If pulled,,, it needs to be shot or used as a blunt force weapon. Or you misjudged the situation. If the situation is life threating the shoot is good. If the situation was not,,, you could be doomed or be the suicide by citizen type person for no reason. And you and I do not have the same rights as LEO's when it comes to bullying folks around.


I carry a PF-9. My own ammo, 7+1 and a back up mag. I can be in the very worse parts of my area of the USA and know I'm not under gunned. I've never met a thug that knows how to shoot. I may also have my M&P .45 FS, .357 or my trusted CZ-52 with JHP in the car or trunk. But no BUG as of 2011 on my person. If things get crazy around me which they have done from time to time be it road rage, armed robbery across the street or even somebody wanting to put a beat down on me. I EVADE at all cost. If backed into a corner or my wife is threaten. I will shoot and shoot to kill. You think your going to enter my house without being invited or known to have entry rights. ( like family members with keys or our own open door policy ) You die.

So basically.... We don't live in fear for our lives day in and out. But we are armed.

[zachkuby87]

To clear things up a bit I did not mean 20 % chance everytime I leave the house I meant 20% chance that I will need it in my lifetime... I have been in situations more than once where I could have used deadly force and been justified but I was young hanging out with the wrong crowd in the wrong parts of town. Now I avoid those people and live in a decent neighborhood with nowhere near as much crime as where I was born and raised

[MLeake]

If you are legitimately threatened, in accordance with the self-defense laws of your state, then drawing in self defense is NOT brandishing.

If you draw, and the threat behavior ceases, but you shoot because of an unreasonable fear of brandishing charges if you don't shoot, that IS anything from assault with a deadly weapon to aggravated battery to manslaughter to homicide.

There could be any number of instances where you are in the right to draw, but may not subsequently be in the right to shoot.

Some interpretations in the forum really worry me...

[blackspyder]

My CC gun is my backup gun, it goes where my Full-size cannot. I'd like to carry a 5" Barreled gun around with me but that's impossible, so it sits nearby. I do carry it's 2 mags with me and 2 for the CC (God help me if I have to shoot 58 rounds to protect myself, but I've got 'em none the less).

[Nnobby45]

I would say a BUG is only necessary if you feel better about having one.
Personally for me,one gun is enough for my needs.

Right. As long as you leave out the unforseen reasons why a BUG might save your life, then a BUG isn't necessary.

Interesting logic that could apply to the primary gun as well.

I carry a J-frame in my inside vest pocket--sometimes in a pants pocket. I can secure my primary weapon in the car and not be unarmed at Dr. appointments, etc.

With a BUG, I can arm a competent person if necessary.

In the Winter when it's cold, the coat is zipped up restricting access to my primary, the J-frame (or LCR) is in my right coat pocket---where my hand is.


Not meaning to pick on you personally, but your logic is widespread and your statement speaks for a lot of people who have the averages all figured out.

The number of shots fired in gunfights, the % of the time one needs to reload, that they don't live in a bad neighborhood (what could go wrong there?), etc., etc.

Without considering that averages include the extremes, they're equipped for the "average" deadly encounter.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Mleake is absolutely right. In TX law and probably others, drawing the gun when there is a threat that qualifies as justified to use lethal force does not necessitate you do shoot. Challenging the opponent is perfectly legal and not brandishing. Read your local statutes or talk to a lawyer.

If you don't know this - you need to reconsider carrying. Sorry to be blunt but that's that. There are many good books and sites that discuss nuances of the law.

Since I've done a fair amount of high training, the challenge of don't move and/or drop the gun is parto of trainaing in many states.

You also need to train to a level where you can 'triage' what you do, so to speak. Immediately shoot or challenge, it's a decision. Either can be right or wrong depending on circumstances.

[Ricky]

"Deterrent? Guns are not deterrent tools. Period. There may be documentary cases which show that a gun deterred a criminal but those are merely cases where the criminal got lucky, nothing more. Thinking about a gun as a deterrent will more likely get you killed than not."

Several years ago I was in a city, 3rd car in line at a traffic light. A young man was sitting on a park bench about 30 yards away. He got up and started running directly towards me. We made eye contact, I retrieved a fanny pack from under my seat. He didn't know what I had but we had maintained eye contact the whole time (maybe 4 seconds at most) When I got my fanny pack into my lap he put both hands up and changed course, lucky guess?
I have no idea if he had bad intentions but I'm pretty sure that he wasn't going to ask me where I got my hair cut. There was no brandishing but he was quick to catch on.

[Nnobby45]

"Deterrent? Guns are not deterrent tools. Period. There may be documentary cases which show that a gun deterred a criminal but those are merely cases where the criminal got lucky, nothing more. Thinking about a gun as a deterrent will more likely get you killed than not."

The gun alone does deter crime by a margin of 14 to one over the fired gun. Can't dismiss that many incidents as merely cases were the criminal "got lucky". Probably more like showed some sense. Many an incident has de-escalated to a no shoot situation by the time the gun was brought to bear.

No, I don't have a link to the source. NRA, or maybe John Lott, perhaps. Maybe even Dept. of Justice, if I recall.

I do agree that looking at the gun as a means of detering crime without being prepared to use it is a dangerous way to think.

[Wag]

It seems that a BUG is necessary to give you insurance against loss or malfunction of the primary gun. If the primary gun is taken from you, you have not lost all protection.

--Wag--

[tenusdad]

I agree with Clay who said:

"I carry one gun for self defense to prevent injury or death for me or my family.

They want my wallet? Here it is.

They want my car? Here’s the key.

I don’t intend to start a war."

I carry, but my gun is a last resort to be used only if in fear of deadly force. The odds of the average citizen having to pull a gun are probably much lower than 20%. The odds of your gun breaking at that momnet are probably so far out they would have to be calculated by some computer program. Yes possible, but so is being hit by a space debris. However ones mans paranoia is another mans common sense I suppose.

[Southern Rebel]

Without considering that averages include the extremes, they're equipped for the "average" deadly encounter.

Yep, a person doesn't need to have a high degree of mathematical training to understand that "average" is a very misleading word. The average temperature in the wintertime where I live is about 43 degrees. However, that average includes the extremes of -10 and +70 - both extremes occurring very reliably. Given that, even the very illiterate (who also occur very reliably) know enough to put antifreeze in their radiator.

I have been out of my home and into the general population about 24,000 days in my life. I have only needed to draw my gun twice during that time. If my poor mathematical skills are working, that means I incurred a risk level of about 1 in a 10,000 when I left my home. Considering that a lot of those years were less violent than current times, the odds are probably worse now.

If the odds were the same for having an auto accident each day that I drive, that would not deter me from driving. It would, however, educate me enough to use a seatbelt and be alert to traffic around me. The point being made is that averages, mathematical odds, and statistics are relevant to our everyday lives, but only if they are applied with common sense - which appears to NOT happen "reliably".

[GLOCK22]

No need for BUG for me either because if I can't shoot you with the gun that I have which is a G22 with three (15) round magazine then I deserve to be shot

[youngunz4life]

The odds of your gun breaking at that momnet are probably so far out they would have to be calculated by some computer program. Yes possible, but so is being hit by a space debris. However ones mans paranoia is another mans common sense I suppose.

tenusdad, other factors can pop up besides the gun breaking. If a true HD/SD situation does befall us(lets both hope that neither of us or our families ever come to pass this), having a BUG could help. Its not always as easy as draw shoot what I got and its over. You and/or your family could be cornered or need more shots. Also I hear you on your last line quoted above as many people might think you or me is paranoid because we carry a weapon. // "Why would he need to carry a weapon here?" is one example you might hear if you tell family members at a family gathering you're CCW.

**I was watching on tv once recently where two BGs home invaded two other guys' home(real incident with interviews from the victim etc). they had taken the man's gun who was a 20something yr old iraqi vet and had ransacked the entire house(they were hostage for over an hour while one man watched the two with his shotgun while cooly talking to them and the other did the ransacking). The entire time the iraq war vet had a semi BUG. well, the BG with the shotgun then said, "You know whats gonna happen now, right?" as his buddy brought him the tape and said tie um up --

long story short he finally got a very brief chance to draw his BUG and shoot him. he still had to fight the man who charged and the only other shot fired before the BG died was a shotgun blast point blank thru the victim/hero's leg. It all happened that quick: one shot from a BUG did the trick but took time to kill the BG. That BUG saved his life as well as his roomates. the 2nd suspect ran.**

Listen its just one story so dont get me wrong - I hadnt been planning on telling the story at first but it came to mind. A BUG can come in handy whether you are going to sleep at night, hiking in a national forest, or CCW. Some people think its paranoid to own a gun in the 1st place which is completely ridicuolous and irrational in my eyes. I do not think someone who carries two firearms is paranoid.