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Old May 15, 2019, 10:45 AM   #51
Lohman446
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The .380 is a good round. It noticeably softer recoiling in a firearm of the same size, weight, and function than a 9MM but the direct blow-back PPK copies have FAR more perceived recoil than a gun of their size and weight should.

For pocket carry, when we are getting to fairly small and light guns, the .380 is a good choice. It offers less recoil than a 9MM (caveats of similar size, weight, operation apply) and as these guns already recoil plenty they are a fine choice. Personally I would look towards the Keltec P32

Yep - the .32 caliper version. Less recoil as pocketable a pistol as you are likely to find without getting into the .25 and .22 variants.
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Old May 15, 2019, 11:26 AM   #52
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snappy

I've got to say, I'm so darned glad that I never heard that before I bought my bodyguard. I might not have made that decision.

My hands are a bit recoil sensitive, but I still don't find the pocket pistol to be unpleasant to shoot.

The only unpleasant thing about this gun is having the brass bouncing off of my nose and falling down the front of my shirt.
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Old May 15, 2019, 09:47 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
I chose the Beretta Pico as my pocket carry because it has every feature I desire in a pocket gun; DAO trigger, ultra thin profile, snag free and small overall. It also has the modular design that allows complete takedown in seconds, the ability to have three different frames with integrated light or laser or plain-Jane. The Pico has excellent sights. Mine has been completely reliable with a wide variety of ammo. Choose either the flat base mag or an extended mag base. The price is right and the quality is high. Personally I use the laser equipped model and like it very much.

Have had 4 Lcps, still own one, but the Pico is by far cut above. I have two of them. Love the Kahr 380. These guns will keep on trucking when the LCP has long hit the dust. Thousands of rounds through one of mine. Nice sights, mild shooter and built tough.

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Old May 16, 2019, 05:25 AM   #54
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Another vote for the Pico. Very high quality although mine took about 200 rounds to begin functioning smoothly (had several misfeeds before then).

The magazine release takes some getting used to on a Pico.

Also, anyone who reads internet caliber discussions knows that .380s bounce off bad guy's bodies like rubber pellets, while .45 puts them through four walls and a coffin.
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Old May 16, 2019, 07:15 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Cheapshooter View Post
I just have a hard time grasping this whole "LCP isn't fun to shoot" thing. Is it an age thing where younger shooters expect everything to be this cushy, soft thing? Is it an experience thing where those that think the LCP recoil too snappy haven't shot a lot of things that really kick? Don't know, but what I do know is that I enjoy shooting my LCP. Along with my LCR, CM9, XD40 Subcompact, and Glock G20. All at one time or another I have heard described as having snappy or heavy recoil.
The LCP, a gun that is carried a lot, and shot little. Not mine, more like carried always, and shot often.
Fun really never entered the debate when I relegated the LCP to the absolute bottom of the pile when it comes to pocket pistols.
  • It is not a true Double Action pistol and has no second strike capability
  • The slide does not lock back on an empty magazine
  • It has been the most ammo sensitive of all the pocket pistols I own
  • It is the least accurate of the pocket pistols I own
  • The take down field strip procedure is the most difficult of the pocket pistols I own
  • It has by far the lowest (and in my opinion too low) trigger pull of any of my pocket pistols

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Old May 16, 2019, 07:43 AM   #56
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Wait, you're saying the LCP has a 3lb trigger pull? I just paid $300 for a trigger job to get my competition pistol down to 3lbs!
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Old May 16, 2019, 08:11 AM   #57
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Wait, you're saying the LCP has a 3lb trigger pull? I just paid $300 for a trigger job to get my competition pistol down to 3lbs!
Three pounds is fine in a target pistol, but three pounds is not what I want in a carry gun.
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Old May 16, 2019, 08:21 AM   #58
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The LCP II doesn't even have a 3 lb trigger pull, let alone the original LCP. I'm not sure where you found that info.
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Old May 16, 2019, 08:32 AM   #59
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The LCP II doesn't even have a 3 lb trigger pull, let alone the original LCP. I'm not sure where you found that info.
I measured it using my Lyman Digital Trigger gauge.
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Old May 16, 2019, 09:48 AM   #60
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LCP II is a trigger pull of 5.5lbs (if yours is 3lbs, you, your scale, or your trigger is messed up Send it back to Ruger)
LCP I is a trigger pull of 6.5lbs

LCP II does lock back on an empty mag, but even with the standard LCP, its a training issue. Its also a matter of purpose.
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Old May 16, 2019, 12:50 PM   #61
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Forget the 380 (buy a P238 if you just can't) and get a P938...Not much bigger than the P238 and is still very easy to shoot. Plus you get 9mm power in a 380 sized gun.
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Old May 16, 2019, 04:55 PM   #62
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LCP II does lock back on an empty mag, but even with the standard LCP, its a training issue. Its also a matter of purpose.
Am I in the minority on not caring about this?

Locking back helps to confirm an empty magazine and can facilitate faster turn-around on a mag change. That's nice but it doesn't strike me as crucial for a tiny CCW. I look to this class of firearm when carry space is at a super premium. At that kind of premium, chances are that I'm not carrying a spare magazine anyway. In fact, having fewer features or controls can have value in that kind of gun.
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Old May 16, 2019, 05:25 PM   #63
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I measured it using my Lyman Digital Trigger gauge.
Better send that one back for repairs!

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Am I in the minority on not caring about this?
Nope, not even close to a necessary feature.

Quote:
It is not a true Double Action pistol and has no second strike capability
If I am concerned about a round not going bang the first time, I'm going to buy better ammo!

Quote:
It has been the most ammo sensitive of all the pocket pistols I own
You must have gotten one of the very few bad ones. Mine runs fine on everything I've put through it.

Quote:
It is the least accurate of the pocket pistols I own
Accuracy is subjective, and relative to the shooter. Mine is well capable of repeated center mass, and even head shots @10 yards.

Quote:
The take down field strip procedure is the most difficult of the pocket pistols I own
So difficult to pop out a pin, and pull the slide off.

Quote:
It has by far the lowest (and in my opinion too low) trigger pull of any of my pocket pistols
Probably the most curious comment you made. Next to the take down one. Did you buy it new, or did you get a used one that somebody "improved" on their kitchen table?
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Old May 17, 2019, 08:06 AM   #64
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Probably the most curious comment you made. Next to the take down one. Did you buy it new, or did you get a used one that somebody "improved" on their kitchen table?
Bought new and it is the latest iteration of the LCP.

I understand many folk like the LCP and that's fine; but it does not change or invalidate any of the facts I pointed out.

I have absolutely no issue with people liking an LCP or Lite Beer or green peas.
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Old May 17, 2019, 08:28 AM   #65
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but it does not change or invalidate any of the facts I pointed out.
Your conclusions are different than mine. All of your premises must be flawed either because of your incompetence, laziness, or because you have an abnormally bad sample. We will not discuss that your sample size of 1 (or a couple) is as equally valid as my sample size of 1 (or a couple) because my particular samples support my conclusions.

The defense (and attack) of firearm other than the one "we" have decided to is best suited to ourselves reached ridiculous heights and that does not even get into the discussion of calibers. All people who bought a Glock of any type must simply be lemmings incapable of independent thought - just ask "anyone" who owns anything else
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Old May 17, 2019, 09:02 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Cosmodragoon View Post
Am I in the minority on not caring about this?

Locking back helps to confirm an empty magazine and can facilitate faster turn-around on a mag change. That's nice but it doesn't strike me as crucial for a tiny CCW. I look to this class of firearm when carry space is at a super premium. At that kind of premium, chances are that I'm not carrying a spare magazine anyway. In fact, having fewer features or controls can have value in that kind of gun.
Nope..and gotta remember, my LCP was about $175, new...no such thing as a free lunch BUT..glad I got rid of it..MUCH happier with G42 with 'ClipDraw' and trigger shield..into the pocket it goes often..
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Old May 17, 2019, 09:06 AM   #67
jar
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Your conclusions are different than mine. All of your premises must be flawed either because of your incompetence, laziness, or because you have an abnormally bad sample. We will not discuss that your sample size of 1 (or a couple) is as equally valid as my sample size of 1 (or a couple) because my particular samples support my conclusions.

The defense (and attack) of firearm other than the one "we" have decided to is best suited to ourselves reached ridiculous heights and that does not even get into the discussion of calibers. All people who bought a Glock of any type must simply be lemmings incapable of independent thought - just ask "anyone" who owns anything else
However I did not attack any firearm or anyone's choice of a firearm. I covered a variety of possible choices and ranked them based on my experience including the reasoning behind my decisions.

Attempts to misrepresent what I say do not change the actual content of what I post.
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Old May 17, 2019, 09:14 AM   #68
Lohman446
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I hope that the aim of my firearm is more effective than that of my (very limited) wit.

Quote:
Attempts to misrepresent what I say do not change the actual content of what I post.
You posted premises. They have been challenged as being defective testing equipment (trigger pull), a lack of quality in other components (second strike capability), incompetence (accuracy and trigger modification despite lack of evidence of such), and laziness (quirks of tear down procedure).

The premises are up for debate. We could reasonably debate the value of second strike capability and note that it is actually fairly common considering most striker fired guns lack it. We could debate the value of locking open after the last round considering how often these guns are carried sans spare magazine. We don't debate those things though. We create arguments that attack the user instead.

Last edited by Lohman446; May 17, 2019 at 09:24 AM.
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Old May 17, 2019, 10:24 AM   #69
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Bought new and it is the latest iteration of the LCP.
By "latest iteration" do you mean LCP II?
That could explain the light trigger.

Quote:
but it does not change or invalidate any of the facts I pointed out.
If it is not an LCP II your "facts" are mostly invalidated by the multitude of people who own an LCP who like them or not are scratching their heads. Especially the trigger pull, which on the LCP (not LCP II) is in no way too light. Or the take down which is not complicated at all.
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Old May 17, 2019, 03:38 PM   #70
jar
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Originally Posted by Cheapshooter View Post
By "latest iteration" do you mean LCP II?
That could explain the light trigger.


If it is not an LCP II your "facts" are mostly invalidated by the multitude of people who own an LCP who like them or not are scratching their heads. Especially the trigger pull, which on the LCP (not LCP II) is in no way too light. Or the take down which is not complicated at all.
Of course I mean the LCP, not the LCPII. I meant as I said the latest iteration of the LCP.

No one's opinion can invalidate facts like what I measured the trigger pull or the fact that it does not have a second strike capability or the fact that it does not lock back onj an empty magazine.

People can hold an opinion that those are things they wish to live with or do not see those as an issue, but that does not change the facts.

The facts do not get invalidated, they remain facts.

And I have no issue with what other folk like or prefer.

In fact I think it's great that there is the variety available for folks to choose from.

But the topic was on .380 opinions and my opinion is that I really like 380 as a carry option and rank my 380 caliber pistols as outlined above. Sorry if you are bothered by he fact that I find the LCP simply not at all among those that enjoy the most.

Maybe you even drink Lite Beer.
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Old May 17, 2019, 03:49 PM   #71
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I find the LCP custom with laser attached to be a great replacement for the category of "derringer" size guns but with a lot more bullets. Although, being a semi-auto, it is not any good for shooting from within a pocket.
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Old May 17, 2019, 06:49 PM   #72
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... being a semi-auto, it is not any good for shooting from within a pocket.
That's not necessarily true. The first shot should be okay. After that, things could get jammed up. Hopefully, you won't have to shoot from inside a pocket. I know, defensive encounters can be messy and unpredictable. At least in my case, "pocket carry" usually means a pants pocket. It also tends to mean a pocket holster. It would be a real feat to get a shot off through the pocket that way... =/

What pocket do you normally use for carry? Do you use a pocket holster?
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Old May 17, 2019, 08:30 PM   #73
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No one's opinion can invalidate facts like what I measured the trigger pull
Obviously with a flawed guage. There is no way a LCP, or LCP Custom has that light of a trigger pull.

Quote:
There are no manual safeties and the trigger is DAO with a short 0.5 inches of travel and a substantial 6-pound trigger pull.
https://www.personaldefenseworld.com...ruger-lcp-380/

Quote:
First, there are no manual safeties to remember, and the DAO trigger has a short 0.5-inch length of travel countered by a solid 6.5-pound average trigger pull.
https://www.personaldefenseworld.com...ew-lcp-custom/
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Old May 17, 2019, 08:37 PM   #74
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Convert pound to kilogram

6.5lbs = 2.9483504050000002kg
https://www.convertunits.com/from/lbs/to/kg

Quote:
Lyman’s revolutionary Digital Trigger Pull Gauge is designed to be the fastest and most accurate trigger pull gauge available. The state-of-the-art strain gauge technology allows for accuracy of 1/10 ounce/2 grams. The gauge will read to a maximum 12lb/5.4kg and features a large, easy-to-read LCD display.
https://www.lymanproducts.com/electr...ger-pull-gauge

Now, set your little digital toy to lb instead of kg, and tell us how "too light" that 6 to 6 1/2 pound trigger is!
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Old May 17, 2019, 09:22 PM   #75
jar
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Originally Posted by Cheapshooter View Post
https://www.convertunits.com/from/lbs/to/kg


https://www.lymanproducts.com/electr...ger-pull-gauge

Now, set your little digital toy to lb instead of kg, and tell us how "too light" that 6 to 6 1/2 pound trigger is!
It's still an average of three pounds three ounces.

AbE:

The issue is that even if the trigger pull fell into a reasonable range the LCP still suffers from all the other issues I described. It's simply not going to move into the same class as my other 380s.

Lots of folk like them. Great. Ruger makes money selling them. Great. But it's simply still at the bottom of my list of choices.

Please understand, I'm not knocking the LCP or any other gun someone likes. In fact today I was carrying a pistol that suffers from many of the same issues as seen in the LCP; no lock back on an empty magazine and no second strike capability and an unusual field strip procedure with at least one step that is critical in reassembly. But it does have the excuse that it's 95 years old and not a really modern design. It is striker fired though (and I even have and have had other striker fired pistols) and just a 7.65 cartridge. Bigger than the LCP but still pocket size.

The LCP may well be the perfect pistol for someone else and if so then wonderful. But I find it sadly lacking.
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