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Old February 21, 2019, 07:36 AM   #1
roc1
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FN Surplus Hi Powers

See a lot of surplus Hi Powers on GB for sale from $450 up all look pretty scratched up. I’m just wondering if they are worth price since Hi Powers are no longer available ? Thoughts anyone have one? Most are from Mach 1 Arsenal I believe.
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Old February 21, 2019, 08:08 AM   #2
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"Regent" is supposedly producing new Hi-Power clones.
Hi-Powers seem to have much more variability in material and workmanship due to the several "licensed manufacturers". Some are brittle and some are soft--neither is good for longevity.
The HiPower I have is an "FM" made under license in Argentina and I was told by Cylinder and Slide when they tuned it that those often "better than the real ones"(meaning Browning logo).
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Old February 21, 2019, 08:14 AM   #3
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I just got a Regents appears very well made C&S said same bout it they are making custom guns off it. Anxious shoot it this weekend. Just curious about getting real FN Belgium if worth money are not paying for Belgium made for sure.
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Old February 21, 2019, 11:25 AM   #4
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Hipower's are neat guns and I think everyone that is into firearms, should have at least one. My first Hipower was an Argentine FM and it was a very, very nice gun. It had a parkerized finish and while not as polished as a Browning, it sure did shoot well. Unfortunately it was stolen from me and I had to wait several years to get another HP, this time I got a genuine made in Belgium one. I can't say about the used ones that are coming into the country, but the one I have has been used hard and shows a bunch of finish wear. Nevertheless, it is as accurate as just about any other handgun I have and goes bang every time I pull the trigger.
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Old February 21, 2019, 11:39 AM   #5
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Is Regent a Turkish Co. ???

Quote:
"Regent" is supposedly producing new Hi-Power clones.
By chance, Are these made in Turkey? I recently saw a Turkish HP at local G.S but did not pay much attention who made them. Visually and mechanically, I found them to be "almost" as attractive as the real HP's... ……

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Old February 21, 2019, 12:11 PM   #6
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Yep made Turkey on CNC machines saw video on factory. Brownells importing them. I bought one looks feels great. Like I saw on website C&S building custom guns on them
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Old February 21, 2019, 12:46 PM   #7
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BHSpringSolutions has some blog posts as well as YouTube videos on parts breakages and issues they encountered with the Regents. There are several parts you might want to replace were you to get one. I don't think that means you shouldn't consider one, however.

I actually did pick up a Mk III Hi Power from Mach 1 Arsenal, and I have a thread on it (I'll link to it if I get back to my computer). Overall they're serviceable pistols, but the finish will often be pretty beat and mine also had some dings in the metal of the slide. They may not have been shot extensively but they were often carried a lot and will correspondingly look the part. On mine I did replace all the springs and there was a noticeable difference in the spring tensions. I later found a nicer commercial model that was imported by Browning and got it for $630 and since sold the Mach 1 import model. The prices on commercial models have gone a bit nutty imo, but if you're patient on GunBroker you occasionally find a good deal. In my opinion from the abuse the import model I bought had seen I think spending the price difference on a commercial model is worth it if you do want an original FN/Browning.

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Old February 21, 2019, 01:41 PM   #8
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A lot will depend on who surplused 'em. Most milsurp pistols were carried a lot but shot very little. However, that doesn't mean the thing was properly cared for.
The "surplus" BHP's on Gunbroker don't look scratched up to me. They look like they have normal finish wear from being taken out of the arsenal, looked at or carried on a militia exercise and returned to the arsenal.
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Old February 21, 2019, 02:45 PM   #9
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Yep I got a hand picked one from them hope it is only finish wore badly. Looks decent in pics actually a Browning FN hope so. I have read all bout springs issues and firing pin stop on Tisas Regent online so will see. The Regent finish inside an out is great machining looks great. I just got it Tuesday so will try her out this weekend. Then will know more
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Old February 21, 2019, 03:02 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by roc1 View Post
Yep I got a hand picked one from them hope it is only finish wore badly. Looks decent in pics actually a Browning FN hope so. I have read all bout springs issues and firing pin stop on Tisas Regent online so will see. The Regent finish inside an out is great machining looks great. I just got it Tuesday so will try her out this weekend. Then will know more
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Check the Regent over closely. I would replace all the springs along with the firing pin retaining plate if it were my gun. There have been some reported issues with them. They look good but they are typical Turkish guns. Their QC and metallurgy is not consistent. IMHO I have spoken to C&S about them and at the time they had not handled many but thought they were decent. They did hardness test of the frame barrel and slide on the ones they had and the results were favorable.

When I asked other BHP smiths like Yost, Williams and Garthwaite about them they all said they would stick to know proven guns. I know Yost won't work on anything but a FN base gun. That is not a knock on C&S or the Regent it is just what I have been told.

I would take a surplus or better yet a commercial Browning/FN gun over the Regent. I would even take a FEG or FM over the Regent. The only appeal to me for the Regent is the price and a stainless steel frame and slide. If I wanted that look I would get a FN gun and then send it to be hard chromed which will look just as good be more durable and better build. Again IMHO
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Old February 21, 2019, 08:11 PM   #11
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Where to buy and price ???

Quote:
Yep made Turkey on CNC machines saw video on factory. Brownells importing them. I bought one looks feels great. Like I saw on website C&S building custom guns on them
Okay, you guys have my attention and would ask where is a good place to purchase one and well as pricing. I have shot HPs and like them a lot. Finally figured out that I don't care for striker-fired handguns. …….

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Old February 21, 2019, 08:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobuck
"Regent" is supposedly producing new Hi-Power clones.
"Regent" is just a name. The guns are made by Tisas Trabzon in Turkey. I looked at them at the SHOT Show a year ago (2018) and I was impressed, but that was on the show floor. They weren't at range day so I have not been able to shoot one.

https://www.trabzonsilah.com/en/

http://www.trabzonsilah.com/en/series/zig-14
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Old February 21, 2019, 09:22 PM   #13
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I have had several FN Browning HPs and like amount of clones. The only ones that came close were some under Mauser than were made in Germany after WW2. I have a keeper that is glass smooth. Once Brn started farming out to Portugal they weren't the same quality gun. They were assembled not fitted as they were at FN. Some of the clones are not
bad when compared to the Portugese models but not near as slick as the originals from FN.
I've haven't had a Turkish HP yet but if they are like 1911s from there they have a lot to be
desired with internal polishing of frame and slide.
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Old February 21, 2019, 09:29 PM   #14
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The Mach1 surplus BHPs are out of Israel. I recently got one for my son; couldn't be happier.
I've had a few FM HPs, but only kept the FN and FM licensed examples. I wasn't happy with the metallurgy on the post-license models; too much evidence of peening.
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Old February 21, 2019, 09:54 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Drm50 View Post
I have had several FN Browning HPs and like amount of clones. The only ones that came close were some under Mauser than were made in Germany after WW2. I have a keeper that is glass smooth. Once Brn started farming out to Portugal they weren't the same quality gun. They were assembled not fitted as they were at FN. Some of the clones are not
bad when compared to the Portugese models but not near as slick as the originals from FN.
I've haven't had a Turkish HP yet but if they are like 1911s from there they have a lot to be
desired with internal polishing of frame and slide.
@Drm50 And when did they start farming that work out to Portugal? I am interested to know at what date the quality of the FN guns dropped so I know which ones to buy. Also please enlighten me to which Hi Powers Browning manufactured because as I understand it Browning never produced a Hi Power. EVER
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Old February 21, 2019, 09:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahoo View Post
Okay, you guys have my attention and would ask where is a good place to purchase one and well as pricing. I have shot HPs and like them a lot. Finally figured out that I don't care for striker-fired handguns. …….

Be Safe !!!
Gunbroker or Brownells is a good place to buy a Regent/Tias. When Brownells runs a 10% off sales with free shipping is a good time to buy. I personally would buy from them because if there is an issue they will take care of you better than a GB seller 99% of the time.
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Old February 21, 2019, 10:36 PM   #17
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I bought mine from Brownells 10% off and free shipping. Looks great outside and in machine work finish everything. I hope shoots as good as it looks will be very happy.
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Old February 21, 2019, 10:38 PM   #18
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I bought mine from Brownells 10% off and free shipping. Looks great outside and in machine work finish everything. I hope shoots as good as it looks will be very happy.
Thanks
Roc1
I really want them to work out because it would be nice to have a source for new BHPs even if they are clones. Please tell us how it shoots.
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Old February 22, 2019, 07:24 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drm50 View Post
I have had several FN Browning HPs and like amount of clones. The only ones that came close were some under Mauser than were made in Germany after WW2. I have a keeper that is glass smooth. Once Brn started farming out to Portugal they weren't the same quality gun. They were assembled not fitted as they were at FN. Some of the clones are not
bad when compared to the Portugese models but not near as slick as the originals from FN.
I've haven't had a Turkish HP yet but if they are like 1911s from there they have a lot to be
desired with internal polishing of frame and slide.
The import I had from Mach 1 Arsenal was both manufactured and assembled in Belgium, with all the Belgium proof marks and all FNH markings with no mention of Browning as a company. The commercial model I have was manufactured in Belgium and assembled in Portugal. Both the slide to frame fit and the barrel to slide fit are noticeably tighter on the model assembled in Portugal. These are production pistols, not hand fit masterpieces, at least the examples I have.

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Old February 22, 2019, 10:21 AM   #20
roc1
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I had a HP assembled in Portugal and a Winchester Model 70 same way. Didn’t care for either one HP had trigger failure Model 70 never shot very accurate no matter what load I tried factory and hand loads . I had Model 70 from SC lot better gun in my experience.
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Old February 22, 2019, 10:51 AM   #21
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I know HPs were never made by Browning, they were made in Belgium by FN, like most Browning labeled guns. That is basic Browning knowledge. I don't know date off hand when they farmed out assembly to Potugal but guns are so
marked. They also did same with some rifles like the BAR. Guys into Brownings don't like Portugal assembled guns. The Browning shotguns out of Japan have had little complaint except they aren't FN.

The #1 complaint on Portugeese HP is the triggers. The model 70wins were the
safety. I don't know what the complaint on BAR is I was never into them. I owned a couple early one and had no trouble with them. I don't pay any attention to Brownings unless FN. From what I understand you can take a HP
from Portugal and have it fitted by a smith and have same gun as FN, since the
parts supposedly came out of Belgium FN. There are a couple good books on
Browning FN guns but I don't know if they are new enough editions to go into the Portugal guns.

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Old February 22, 2019, 10:58 AM   #22
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I always wanted to shoot one of these shoulder stock models. Just to see how far I could hit something.

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Old February 22, 2019, 10:59 AM   #23
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Quote:
I know HPs were never made by Browning, they were made in Belgium by FN, like most Browning labeled guns. That is basic Browning knowledge. I don't know date off hand when they farmed out assembly to Potugal but guns are so
marked. They also did same with some rifles like the BAR. Guys into Brownings don't like Portugal assembled guns. The Browning shotguns out of Japan have had little complaint except they aren't FN.
The reason for my comments is that there is a ton of misinformation about FN Herstal assembling guns in Portugal. People do not know the history of the BHP and the FN Herstal plant in Viana Portugal. FN acquired/built the factory in Viana Portugal in 1971-1972 IIRC. BHPs were assembled there sometime after that. There is no definitive date but it is pretty well accepted that the BHP was assembled there in order to reduce labor costs prior to the "Assembled in Portugal" rollmark.

The rollmark which sparks so much mystery and misinformation appeared in the late 70s on Browning rollmarked guns. That rollmark "Assembled in Portugal" is not present on FN rollmarked guns. There are lots of rumors and myths as to why it is on the Browning rollmarked guns but none of them have ever been confirmed by FN that I can remember. The fact is that since somewhere after 1971-1972 ALL BHPs produced by FN were assembled in Portugal. As Burgs pointed out these are production level guns. They are not hand fitted hand built custom guns. They were high volume production line guns. They are high quality but production none the less. It does not matter if the "Assembled in Portugal" rollmark is on the gun or not after a certain date, that only FN Herstal only knows for sure, all BHPs were assembled in Portugal.

FN Herstal has a long history of making changes to the BHP in order to simplify production and lower its production cost. Most of the changes including the move to external extractors, epoxy finishes, changing the bluing process, cast frames etc.... all were done to make the BHP cheaper to produce. The move to Portugal is consistent with that. People who are knowledgeable BHP fans know this. There are reasons to choose an older FN Herstal assembled gun vs one assembled in Portugal but it is not really about quality. It is more about materials, frame dimensions, bluing, sights, safeties, intended uses etc... Most if not all of the big time BHP fans I interact with understand this. As do all of the top BHP smiths. There is a lot of love for older BHPs like T series guns which helps drive their prices up but most of it is hype. IMHO having owned pre T guns, T series, C Series, MKIIs, MKIII transitional guns, MKIIIs etc....

My other comment was that Browning has never produced a BHP. They were once the importer of the FN Browning Hi Power and later became a wholly owned subsidiary but they have never been the manufacturer of the pistol. The gun bears JMBs name but it is not really his design, but that is a topic for another thread.

In the end like any other production gun there will be good and bad examples of all vintages of the BHP. Where it was assembled, its vintage and the rollmark on it are not always indicative of quality.
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Old February 22, 2019, 11:14 AM   #24
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I know HPs were never made by Browning, they were made in Belgium by FN, like most Browning labeled guns. That is basic Browning knowledge. I don't know date off hand when they farmed out assembly to Potugal but guns are so
marked. They also did same with some rifles like the BAR. Guys into Brownings don't like Portugal assembled guns. The Browning shotguns out of Japan have had little complaint except they aren't FN.

The #1 complaint on Portugeese HP is the triggers. The model 70wins were the
safety. I don't know what the complaint on BAR is I was never into them. I owned a couple early one and had no trouble with them. I don't pay any attention to Brownings unless FN. From what I understand you can take a HP
from Portugal and have it fitted by a smith and have same gun as FN, since the
parts supposedly came out of Belgium FN. There are a couple good books on
Browning FN guns but I don't know if they are new enough editions to go into the Portugal guns.
There are crappy BHP triggers of all vintages. The information that you are posting is not accurate. It is an overly broad generalization based in someones opinion which is being repeated as truth.

The reality is that somewhere in the 1970s all BHPs were assembled in Portugal to save labor costs. I have seen it time and time again where someone claimed their FN Herstal assembled gun was superior to the Portugal one but in reality they are holding a guns assembled in Portugal. One of the biggest offenders were the late 90's MKIIIs with FN rollmarks. CDNN blew them out under $500 and they advertised them as all Belgium guns when in reality they were the same as the Browning rollmarked MKIIIs but did not have the "assembled in Portugal" rollmark. People think they bought something special or better but in the end they didn't. It was still a good deal I wish I had bought 100 of them back then.
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Old February 22, 2019, 11:54 AM   #25
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I have 2 recently-imported surplus Hi-Powers that I've acquired in the last year.

One is a force-matched and refinished (parkerized) Israeli-marked Mark III, and the other an all-matching Mark II with original (and scratched/worn) matte blued finish. I replaced the recoil on spring on each out of habit, and have done no other work to them.

The all-matching gun feels tighter, and was clearly shot very little, but both are reliable and accurate shooters.
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