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Old June 18, 2019, 11:43 PM   #151
JohnKSa
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They rust like any other piece of metal.
There are metal treatments that make metal more corrosion resistant. Ferritic Nitrocarburizing (also known as Tenifer or Melonite) is one such treatment. While it does not make metal completely corrosion proof, it does reduce corrosion significantly.

So, no, steel treated with ferritic nitrocarburizing doesn't "rust like any other piece of metal"--it will rust less than untreated steel. It may still rust (as can stainless steel or steel protected by other means) when exposed to extreme conditions (e.g. 2 days in a salt spray cabinet) but it tends to be quite corrosion resistant in practical environments. Depending on the treatment parameters it can result in a steel part that is more corrosion resistant than some stainless steels, or even than hard chrome plating.

For what it's worth, ferritic nitrocarburizing is not really a Glock specific treatment. A number of firearm makers use similar metal treatments on their guns. However, as mentioned the results can vary depending on treatment parameters.
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Old June 19, 2019, 09:34 AM   #152
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There are metal treatments that make metal more corrosion resistant.

Right and most firearms are treated. Almost every Military treats their weapons against corrosion which means in theory......

I should not have had to tell them to clean the rust off their weapons.

Yet it happened. Go figure.
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Old June 19, 2019, 12:36 PM   #153
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They rust like any other piece of metal. They even rusted in Afghanistan....like every other weapon...when you only put a little lube on it, LOL.

http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2139
My experience has been, compared to a lot of other things, they are pretty rust resistant, even when you dont keep after them. The only thing Ive seen rust on them, has been the slide stop lever, due to the finish being worn off from use and holster wear.

Prior to finishes like hard chrome and Tennifer, it was a constant struggle to keep things from rusting, especially in the summer with leather holsters. Really never had that issue once I had things chromed, or went with Glocks.


But thats just from actual daily use, and not "trying" to get it to fail. Im sure if you try hard enough, you can make anything fail, if you want.

Then there is this. Chuck Taylor did an extended dunk test (6 months) with his one Glock, in the ocean, with no results like youre showing in your link.

https://www.ballisticmag.com/2018/05...re-test-ocean/

Makes you wonder what the differences were.


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Originally Posted by davidsog View Post
Right and most firearms are treated. Almost every Military treats their weapons against corrosion which means in theory......

I should not have had to tell them to clean the rust off their weapons.

Yet it happened. Go figure.
Sounds like they had ineffective leadership.

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Old June 19, 2019, 07:24 PM   #154
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Great write up from Chuck Taylor. His Glock and his reports were the first to really get my attention about owning a Glock. I did briefly own one Glock. A 357 Sig version I bought at the gunshow. Before I could could even shoot it a friend begged me to sell it to him. So I did. For a profit of course. He still has the gun a decade later. Thats a record for him. He buys and shoots 50 rounds and then sells, normally at a loss and buys something else.

I really want a Gen3 model 17.
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Old June 19, 2019, 07:49 PM   #155
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Makes you wonder what the differences were.
Oil

That is all we would use on our weapons for dive ops. Point being there is no wonderwaffen....

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So I decided why not take one for the team and do some testing on it. My family owns a company that does plating and surface finishing for aerospace and defense and we just happen to have a salt spray cabinet. So during our monthly testing, I decided to see just how good the tenifer finish is at corrosion resistance. This is one of the pictures after 48 hours of salt spray. Note that I carried the Glock from spring of '98 until Valentines Day of '05, so there was some wear on the finish, and that the salt may have attacked those areas only/moreso. I thoroughly degreased the slide before the test so there wasn't oil protecting the slide whatsoever.
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2139

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Sounds like they had ineffective leadership.
Third World Nations....What do you expect and why do you think we where there????

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Old June 19, 2019, 09:04 PM   #156
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Oil

That is all we would use on our weapons for dive ops. Point being there is no wonderwaffen....
Youre right, there is no wonder weapon. German, Austrian, US, whatever. But some things do tend work better than others in harsh conditions.

Im not buying those "48 hour" spray cabinet results either.

Im not saying they cant rust, just that in my experience, you would have to really work at it to get it to happen.

I dont wipe my Glocks down with oil, or anything other than Hoppes when I clean them. Never have, and never found the need to, and thats been across all generations. I oil the internals where and how Glock specifies, nothing more.

Ive carried a number of different makes of handguns on a daily (16-18 day) basis, for about 45 years now. Worked and played hard, outdoors, my whole life too. So far, the Glocks, and a couple of 1911's Ive had hard chromed, have been the only ones that didnt need to be constantly babied, and havent had rust issues.

I know you seem to have some sort of hard on for the Glocks, which is fine, we all have our likes and dislikes. Use whatever you like best.

Im simply pointing out some things Ive found from personal experience, to differ from what you'd have us believe.

Ive owned and used guns by most of the big name companies over the years, and Ive found the Glocks to be reliable and more durable than most, and a real bargain for the money.

Im also up for trying anything that looks like it might be decent too. If I find something better, then Ill move up. But right now, I have gone through and replaced SIG's, HK's, Colts, Walthers, and a few others, and right now, its Glock in that spot thats filling the bill.



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Third World Nations....What do you expect and why do you think we where there????

And they are now rust free, and all have big smiles on their faces due to your tutelage?
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Old June 19, 2019, 10:13 PM   #157
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Right and most firearms are treated.
Right, and that's why they don't "rust like any other piece of metal".

If they did "rust like any other piece of metal" then nobody would waste money treating them. They would just leave them bare.
Quote:
Point being there is no wonderwaffen...
That is certainly true, however it is also true that some metal treatments are better than others. That doesn't mean that no maintenance is necessary, but a superior metal treatment can ease maintenance requirements somewhat and also provide a little "wiggle room" when the weapon must be used in unusually harsh conditions or when circumstances prevent normal maintenance.
Quote:
Makes you wonder what the differences were.
The parameters of the treatment determine how thick the treatment penetrates into the steel, and that can have a bearing on how it holds up to extreme conditions. This is why, even though Melonite and Tenifer are technically the same treatment, one can see different real-world results between two weapons treated with "the same treatment".
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Old June 20, 2019, 07:11 AM   #158
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I once carried a G23 on a week long backpack trip in PA. It rained every day, and when it wasn’t raining, there was high, sweaty humidity.
The G23 was either in a damp pack pocket, or IWB in a cheap Uncle Mike’s soft nylon holster the whole time. In fact, that holster was trashed from being wet the whole time, and the pistol was in it continuously.
Upon my return home, the G23 looked like it never left. I knew that if I had carried the Browning HiPower I owned, it would have been a rusty mess...That pistol would rust if you looked at it wrong.
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Old June 20, 2019, 09:27 AM   #159
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And they are now rust free, and all have big smiles on their faces due to your tutelage?
Nope. Just wishing they had Glocks so they never rusted.....

Quote:
Right, and that's why they don't "rust like any other piece of metal".

If they did "rust like any other piece of metal" then nobody would waste money treating them. They would just leave them bare.
Is your point firearms do not rust?
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Old June 20, 2019, 09:34 AM   #160
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So far, the Glocks, and a couple of 1911's Ive had hard chromed, have been the only ones that didnt need to be constantly babied, and havent had rust issues.
Our factory loaner Glock 21’s rusted in Afghanistan. Not any worse than any other firearm but they did rust. Do not oil them, add moisture...and the metal oxidizes.

Must have just had a bad batch sent by the factory for us to test.
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Old June 20, 2019, 09:43 AM   #161
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Our factory loaner Glock 21’s rusted in Afghanistan. Not any worse than any other firearm but they did rust. Do not oil them, add moisture...and the metal oxidizes.

Must have just had a bad batch sent by the factory for us to test.
Could be, but it does sound strange.

Just curious, but what exactly on the gun rusted?
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Old June 20, 2019, 03:19 PM   #162
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in PA. It rained every day.
Yes. This is true.
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Old June 20, 2019, 03:28 PM   #163
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Yes. This is true.
And has been all spring and now summer this year.
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Old June 20, 2019, 10:37 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by davidsog
Is your point firearms do not rust?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKSa
So, no, steel treated with ferritic nitrocarburizing doesn't "rust like any other piece of metal"--it will rust less than untreated steel. It may still rust (as can stainless steel or steel protected by other means) when exposed to extreme conditions (e.g. 2 days in a salt spray cabinet) but it tends to be quite corrosion resistant in practical environments.
1. If you don't have the time to read what I've posted, I submit that it makes little sense to spend time to posting responses to it.

2. If you read it, but genuinely didn't understand it, please point out the specific sections that are confusing and I will try to explain them.

3. If you read it and understood it, but thought it would be a good idea to try to put words in my mouth instead of just responding to what I posted, I hope you realize that you are wasting not only your time and mine, but also the time of others who are participating in the thread.
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Old June 25, 2019, 09:32 AM   #165
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. If you don't have the time to read what I've posted, I submit that it makes little sense to spend time to posting responses to it.

2. If you read it, but genuinely didn't understand it, please point out the specific sections that are confusing and I will try to explain them.

3. If you read it and understood it, but thought it would be a good idea to try to put words in my mouth instead of just responding to what I posted, I hope you realize that you are wasting not only your time and mine, but also the time of others who are participating in the thread.
None of that. Your reply seemed very condescending so I asked a question to confirm.

Thanks.
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Old June 25, 2019, 09:35 AM   #166
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Just curious, but what exactly on the gun rusted?
Slides. Not any worse than any other firearm but they did rust. Do not oil them, add moisture...and the metal oxidizes.
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Old June 25, 2019, 12:26 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by davidsog View Post
Slides. Not any worse than any other firearm but they did rust. Do not oil them, add moisture...and the metal oxidizes.
Not to fan a fire that should probably die, but I'm curious too.

It seems to me that slides on Glocks, especially the exterior surfaces, are treated to inhibit rust. So one more step, beyond "add moisture" is required to explain this. You're "equation," as it stands, does not equal a rusting Glock, at least not an unaltered Glock.

Between my dad and me, we've owned a fair few Glocks. Some have been exposed to, or even temporarily stored in pretty moist environments. Environments that I imagine are damper than Afghanistan.

I am also wondering... Was it the exterior surface of the slide, was it internal surfaces, the surfaces of other parts making up the mechanics of the slide?
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Old June 25, 2019, 12:46 PM   #168
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I've got a Glock 30.3SF, of fairly recent manufacture (last 5 years or so), with most of the finish worn off the slide. This gun has been exposed to moisture many times and has not rusted.

Whatever the metal treatment below the finish is, it stands up to moisture.
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Old June 25, 2019, 03:21 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Tallest View Post
Not to fan a fire that should probably die, but I'm curious too.

It seems to me that slides on Glocks, especially the exterior surfaces, are treated to inhibit rust. So one more step, beyond "add moisture" is required to explain this. You're "equation," as it stands, does not equal a rusting Glock, at least not an unaltered Glock.

Between my dad and me, we've owned a fair few Glocks. Some have been exposed to, or even temporarily stored in pretty moist environments. Environments that I imagine are damper than Afghanistan.

I am also wondering... Was it the exterior surface of the slide, was it internal surfaces, the surfaces of other parts making up the mechanics of the slide?
Yea, not to keep it up, but the answers do seem vague, and not in line with what Ive seen over the years.

As I said earlier, Ive seen a gun that was dropped in the snow while snowmobiling, and "lost" on the mountain, for over a year, and the Glock itself didnt rust a bit.

Ive also carried them in sweat-soaked leather holsters for weeks on end, and never had anything other than the slide stop rust.

Now all of a sudden, they rust just because they dont have oil on them, which is something I dont do to the outside finsih of the gun anyway.

Not saying it didnt happen, but I am skeptical.
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Old June 25, 2019, 04:41 PM   #170
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Rust on a new Glock 19? I've never seen this before on a new Glock..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6_1S_77iys

Quote:
Just got off the phone with Glock regarding some surface rust on my very newish Gen 4 Glock 19. I am a little lost at the moment and wonder what I should do. After speaking with the very hostile customer service rep who essentially blamed me for storing and carrying the firearm incorrectly, Im starting to think maybe it is me. Wanted your opinion on whether to proceed with sending this slide back to Glock or to try and fix the issue locally.
https://www.northeastshooters.com/xe...ervice.294175/

Quote:
Hey guys, just got back from the range and broke in my new Glock 17. When I got home, I just quickly glanced at the slide and saw little specs of rust. at first I didn't know if I was seeing things because I was under the impression that 2 weeks or less of handling wouldn't bring the rust out through the tennifer finish.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...o-rust.618046/

Quote:
The new finish is nothing like the old. Mine rusts around the end of the slide around the barrel area, where the barrel like cost into the slide, and pitting around the barrel. Have contacted glock and all they did was suggest using fireclean instead of Slip EWL or CLP. I wear mine almost daily and clean and wipe it down at least once a week if not more.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns...up_/13-169121/

Quote:
Here is my original post with the slide rust on my G17 EDC. I sent the slide into Glock USA with the warranty paperwork. I got an email a few days later saying the pitting was too deep, and there was an obvious manufacturer defect and the pistol would need to be replaced. I called the guy and he told me they would send me a new G17 Gen 3 to replace the rusted one as soon as I sent in the rest of my gun.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Glocks/comm...arry_gunfixed/


Quote:
I own a G26 Gen 4 and I live in hot and humid TN and I have had some light surface rust appear on the rear serrations of the slide and rear part of the slide where the sight is. I use a brass wire brush to remove the rust and then apply a light coat of oil over the entire outer part of the slide.
https://www.glockforum.com/threads/d...ck-rust.10137/

Quote:
I recently received my first assignment in Florida and had to store my 3 Glocks with my military sponsor while I searched for housing. After a about a month, I picked up the guns and believe it or not, all the slides on all 3 Glocks have rust.
https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/ru...locks.1453071/



https://www.google.com/search?q=gloc...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Quote:
Yea, not to keep it up, but the answers do seem vague, and not in line with what Ive seen over the years.
How is rust on the slide vague?

As for your innuendo that my claims of service are not truthful I would remind you that claiming to be a range guru and internet expert is without consequences.....

Stolen Valor is a crime. My service and experience is well documented.
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Old June 25, 2019, 05:11 PM   #171
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Glock wouldn't be the first company to have bad batches of parts. How indicative of the norm one person's experience is versus another is hard to gauge. All we can do is take each other at face value and choose what to do or not do with the information. Questioning the validity of someone's claims ultimately gets us nowhere. There is a degree of faith required here.

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Old June 25, 2019, 05:34 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by davidsog View Post

How is rust on the slide vague?

As for your innuendo that my claims of service are not truthful I would remind you that claiming to be a range guru and internet expert is without consequences.....

Stolen Valor is a crime. My service and experience is well documented.
I said vague, because you seem to be conveniently vague as it suits you, and you never seem to directly answer questions asked. Makes some of what you say a bit suspect. To me anyway.


And what innuendo? I never said one thing about your service, and I couldnt care less about what you do or did (so far Im far from impressed in how you handle yourself here). Why? Should I be suspect of your claims?

And where did the range guru and internet expert thing come from? Im far from either, but I do shoot a lot, and have a pretty broad experience with a lot of things.

All I said was I never saw the rust you said we should expect, and its from personal daily experience with them over a number of decades, and/or from others I know, and I/we havent seen any rusting issues you claim happen, and apparently, overnight.

Not saying things dont happen, just I havent seen the instant rust you claim. Havent seen it long term either.

The more you go on, I just have to ask. You sure sound like someone else from another site I visit. You dont go by Dusty Bones elsewhere, do you? Same flavor of boasts (service related and otherwise), attacks, and diversions to direct questions, and the same lack of comprehension and running off subject, usually trying to deflect things away from you. Hes supposedly some sort of tough guy Army dude too, although he cant keep his number of tours straight, and has all sorts of distractions when questioned by those who do have the credentials.

If not, nevermind, but you sure feel like that guy.

Or is that just something they teach in SOG as a tactical diversion so you can break contact?
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Old June 25, 2019, 05:47 PM   #173
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If not, nevermind, but you sure feel like that guy.
So do you. Especially when one considers you are using your experience at a range to delegitimize anyone else's. That is the ONLY reason I brought up my experience is you seem to rely upon yours in the discussion.

Quote:
said vague, because you seem to be conveniently vague as it suits you, and you never seem to directly answer questions asked. Makes some of what you say a bit suspect. To me anyway.
What do you think is vague?? The slide is a pretty specific part of the pistol.

Quote:
Or is that just something they teach in SOG as a tactical diversion so you can break contact?
No requirement to break contract from YOU.




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Old June 25, 2019, 05:51 PM   #174
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Not saying things dont happen, just I havent seen the instant rust you claim. Havent seen it long term either.
I am sure you haven't done a lot of things in life but that does not mean those things do not happen.

BTW...the "instant" rust is your own creation and fantasy. Got nothing for you on that one.

Last edited by davidsog; June 25, 2019 at 05:59 PM.
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Old June 25, 2019, 06:55 PM   #175
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So do you. Especially when one considers you are using your experience at a range to delegitimize anyone else's. That is the ONLY reason I brought up my experience is you seem to rely upon yours in the discussion.
I see. And where do you practice when youre not doing your thing out and about? Or do you just download it like the Matrix?

So for those of us who practice on our own dime, and shoot more than most of those in the average military in their careers, in just a few weeks, and probably more than most of you better than types most years, we are somehow less than capable than you?

Im sure you feel that way, but theres only one way to tell, and we know that aint never gonna happen.

Im more than willing to shoot with/against anyone, for fun and profit. Had my ass waxed more than a few times too, but Ive also done OK more often than not. You are only as good as you are in the moment, no matter what you think you are. If you cant do it on paper, on demand, how are you going to do it any other way?

Ive had a good bit of experience over the years with a lot of former military, who told me how expert they are, but must have forgotten everything once they were out, because many of them had trouble trying to hit things, my 10 year old kids were tearing up, and they had a lot of trouble shooting/operating things, they should have had no problems with. Or so they said.

But what do I know, my Glocks dont rust.





Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsog View Post
What do you think is vague??
Most of your responses.


Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsog View Post
No requirement to break contract from YOU.



Nice pics. So what? Are we supposed to be impressed?


Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsog View Post
I am sure you haven't done a lot of things in life but that does not mean those things do not happen.

BTW...the "instant" rust is your own creation and fantasy. Got nothing for you on that one.
I may not have done a lot of things, and Im sure you havent either, but I HAVE carried Glocks in sweat-soaked holsters, daily, for weeks on end, that quickly rusted all the other guns I carried the same way, so I do have some actual experience there. And those experiences were nothing like you would have us believe.

As far as the instant rust, youre the one who keeps acting like they rust right away if you dont oil them. All of mine must have never got the memo. I guess Ill have to have a talk with them.

Again, Im not saying they cant or dont rust, simply mine, and those of others I personally know, who have had them in conditions that would normally rust other things very quickly, didnt have the problem.

So obviously, we seem to have had different experiences. Youll be the first to know if I do happen to run into it though, OK?
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