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Old June 23, 2019, 10:23 AM   #1
Carmady
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LCP + 10" steel plate + 5 yards =

Proof that the LCP is more than just a belly gun.

He starts out at 10 yards, and if he hits at least three out of four times he goes back an additional 5 yards fires another four rounds. If he doesn't hit three out of four, he's found his "limitation."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWAAQ283aoI
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Old June 23, 2019, 02:22 PM   #2
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Most guns are far more accurate than the people shooting them.
Lazy people use the excuse that they will only need the gun at 10 feet or so.
If you can hit your target at 25 yards, you can damned sure hit it at 10 feet.
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Old June 23, 2019, 04:23 PM   #3
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I've qualified on the State of Maine duty weapon course of fire multiple times with a Kel-tec .380 P3AT and S&W J frame .38spl and 9mm snubbies. Some small guns are surprisingly accurate.
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Old June 23, 2019, 11:56 PM   #4
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Not bad shooting, but he might need another gun.

5 failures to feed during the course of the video with FMJ ammo, and at least one other bobble where the gun didn't go into battery until the trigger was released.

Skill is great, but good equipment is also required.
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Old June 24, 2019, 06:38 AM   #5
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Not bad shooting, but he might need another gun.

5 failures to feed during the course of the video with FMJ ammo, and at least one other bobble where the gun didn't go into battery until the trigger was released.

Skill is great, but good equipment is also required.
That is surprising..I had a LCP that was 100% reliable..The other thing to mention, is that to get good with any gun, gotta shoot it..to get good with it. I disliked shooting the LCP so much, I never really got any good with it..so sold it..
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Old June 24, 2019, 07:02 AM   #6
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After he's done, at 12:20, he said he cleaned and lubed the gun, then went back and finished the box and also shot another whole box of 50 with no FTF. He said he had neglected it, so he probably didn't lube it before making the video.
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Old June 24, 2019, 09:04 AM   #7
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I shoot my LCP surprisingly well. At 15 yards I generally have no problems keeping a group I can cover with my palm. It's a second generation original so it has a bit better sights than the early models. I have quite a bit of trigger time with double action revolvers so I don't have a problem with the longer and heavy pull.
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Old June 24, 2019, 09:26 AM   #8
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Agree that most handguns are quite accurate. However, no matter how inherently accurate the handgun is or can be, it can only shoot as straight as the person holding it...

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Old June 24, 2019, 11:33 AM   #9
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I have been preaching to the fact that pocket guns are extremely fast and deadly for a decade. I have been put down over and over everything, I insisted that these guns are in fact range gun. Gun to go through all the drills like you would any other gun.
I also believe they can be faster to the draw.
I also advocated to not spend very much time "Target" shooting them. The Gun is fully capable in every way. I train weekly with them and a whole lot of ammo.
Make them a challenge. Get faster and faster.
Get a small barrel 22.cal to supplement your training. I use a LCR22 and have these two trainers. And great trainers they are.

They will teach you to be great. "Point and Shoot" skills.

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Old June 25, 2019, 09:28 AM   #10
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30 feet? 50 feet? 10 inch plates? With my pocket pistol I can do that all day long wearing a clown nose and 3d glasses. I generally use a spiral notebook and 2" post its for a target when casually shooting. and seriously, I don't really miss that piece of paper often.

Every argument against pocket pistols, short barrels, gritty triggers, etc, when the discussion is about center of chest aiming points and ranges of 50 feet+- is just wasted effort that could better be spent learning how to shoot it.

If a person can't make those hits at thirty feet at slow fire he is lacking in his skills and needs to bone up on basics.

I see too many people who can't hit these levels of accuracy because they don't make the effort and always manage to find an excuse and pass the blame off. They see the television and the real experts and they believe that shooting truly is an effortless and instinctive thing that is as simple as getting onto a gyroscopically stabilized two wheeled vehicle and moving forward.
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Old June 25, 2019, 09:33 AM   #11
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I'm going to take a guess here. I think that nearly anything can make a two inch group from a ransom rest at only 30 feet. I've seen people turn out ragged holes with .177 caliber weapons at fifty, shooting offhand. I don't think that any modern and well constructed gun can be so sloppy that it will throw bullets randomly. Imagine the level of sloppiness in construction that you would have to have for a bullet to leave the frame in such a chaotic spread.
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Old June 25, 2019, 09:42 AM   #12
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I'm not a range shooter, rarely do I ever shoot paper rather usually its clay pigeons in a berm and I never rest a pistol unless Im sighting it in. My experience is although quality control is questionable my LCP is both accurate and reliable.

My 1st LCP showed up in a state where it would not consistently chamber rounds fully into battery (when auto loading, initially loading, anytime). It went back to Ruger who swapped barrel and slide, within 2 weeks of shipping it out I had it back in perfect order - haven't had any malfunction since.

What I was amazed by was from my 1st shot I realized at 50 yards I can generally group into a 20 gallon barrel with it - the original LCP with the very basic sights. I didn't expect that at all. Thats all it ever needs to do in practical terms. They are great little pistols regardless of the price, which is also dirt cheap.
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Old June 25, 2019, 09:50 AM   #13
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Proof that the LCP is more than just a belly gun.
It is a belly gun and that is it's design purpose. Just because it can be shot better does not change that fact. That premise is rather silly.

You can clear a house with a bolt action rifle in CQB if that is all you have. The Wehrmacht took over Europe with one.

That does not mean an M24 or any bolt gun is a CQB rifle.
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Old June 25, 2019, 12:15 PM   #14
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It is a belly gun and that is it's design purpose. Just because it can be shot better does not change that fact. That premise is rather silly.
Nonsense. The pistol was designed as a self defense weapon. It is capable of much more than "belly gun" use. While it has some limitations, it is very effective at much greater than contact distance. For deep concealment it is my number one choice.
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Old June 25, 2019, 12:24 PM   #15
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Um, size doesn't matter. Accuracy has nothing whatever to do with it. This is one of the reasons not to get your training on YouTube. The shots at the 7ish minute mark in that video do not appear to be at 'danger' distances.
"...didn't go into battery until the trigger was released..." Lotta pistols won't do anything but that.
"...30 feet? 50 feet?..." What do the U. S. courts think is close enough for you to be in immediate danger?
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Old June 25, 2019, 01:01 PM   #16
Bill DeShivs
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If someone is shooting at you from 50 feet, you're in immediate danger.
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Old June 26, 2019, 01:21 AM   #17
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The shots at the 7ish minute mark in that video do not appear to be at 'danger' distances.
What do "'danger' distances" have to do with anything?

He's simply finding out how far away he can hit a 10" steel plate at least three out of four times with his LCP. He started at 10 yards and made it to 50 yards. And you have to find something wrong with this?
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Old June 26, 2019, 02:26 AM   #18
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Not bad shooting, but he might need another gun.

5 failures to feed during the course of the video with FMJ ammo, and at least one other bobble where the gun didn't go into battery until the trigger was released.
I think his thumbs were dragging on the slide. Looked to me like an operator-induced malfunction, rather than a tool failure.
That being said... I did drop my LCP like it was on fire, after it had an inexplicable "hot round" incident that launched a copper ring into my face (don't know how else to describe it), and then the thing would never function properly again.

As for accuracy...
Crap sights and common expectations of being a "belly gun" don't mean it won't shoot.
I had my .327 Federal LCR out a little while back, to run some ammo through it for the first time in quite a while (might have been as long as a year ).

At 92 yards, it was 'minute of bowling pin' for six consecutive cylinders. After that, the wind picked up and knocked the bowling pins* out of sight. From then on, myself and my brother were smacking a 3" diameter fire extinguisher* with at least 4 rounds per cylinder, usually five. (Rarely all six.)

I have a new found appreciation for that little 'plastic' revolver and its terrible "sights"...

*(Not our targets. Someone else's trash that had been dumped. Any other day, we would have cleaned it up; but the wind got to be too brutal.)

Quote:
"...didn't go into battery until the trigger was released..." Lotta pistols won't do anything but that.
No.
Please re-read your post and think about what you've typed.
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Old June 26, 2019, 06:31 AM   #19
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Nonsense. The pistol was designed as a self defense weapon.
A tazer is designed as a self defense weapon just as pepper spray. Just like the LCP, they are designed for arms length defense.

One need simply to look at the sights on an LCP. It is made for the immediate threat and not designed to fulfill the role of a full sized duty combat pistol.

It is very silly that this has to be pointed out.


Quote:
The Ruger LCP uses very crude sights with the front being integral to the slide and the rear as a fixed notch. This is definitely not a handgun you would use for any serious target shooting but it is intended for distances within reach of bad breath.
https://www.ammoland.com/2015/04/rug...#axzz5rx4oEzNw

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Despite its design merits, many users complained about the LCP’s rudimentary sights, which are nothing more than small bumps machined into the pistol’s slide.
Quote:
The sights, while limited, are not a deal breaker. For a pistol that’s probably rarely fired beyond five yards, the sights are good enough to get the pistol pointed in the right direction.
https://www.policeone.com/police-pro...-Ruger-LCP-II/

Quote:
If, in fact, every gun has a role to play, it is clear that the Ruger LCP was born to star as a pocket pistol.
Quote:
Should you have any doubt about Ruger’s design intentions, the company includes a pocket holster with the gun.
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Let’s be perfectly honest: A pocket gun is not an ideal combat handgun.
Quote:
I mentioned the age of my eyes because the sights on the Ruger LCP are biased toward concealment. In other words, they are pretty darn small. The good news is that they will not catch on your pocket when drawing. However, the downside is they are harder to use—especially under stress and in low-light conditions. For shooting on the range, they are adequate and even better than some of the options from competitive pistols.
https://www.personaldefenseworld.com...pistol-review/

Simply put, the LCP does not have the capability required and was never intended to be a combat pistol.

It is designed for the immediate threat. While you may get some great results putting holes in paper on a sunday afternoon that has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the weapon on a two way range.
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Old June 26, 2019, 07:32 AM   #20
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What do the U. S. courts think is close enough for you to be in immediate danger?
Depends on your state but there are some guidelines that have become norms. Check your state as your mileage may vary.

In Close Quarter Battle, the immediate threat is defined as arms length.

When you factor in reactionary gap, an assailant within 21 feet can close the distance to an immediate threat before you can bring your pistol to bear.

Quote:
The average officer in static firearms qualifications (non-timed standing and shooting without moving) can hit the 9–10 rings far more often than not from the five yard line. However, research of actual OIS incidents has shown that officers can only accurately hit their moving assailants 14% of the time in life or death situations from distances of only two to 10 feet. On the other hand, assailants were able to successfully engage and hit officers 68% of the time within those same distances. So the psychophysiological components of actual gun fighting play a critical role in an officer’s survivability within relatively close distances.
https://lawofficer.com/exclusive/21footrule/

Never equate putting holes in paper with combat performance.
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Old June 26, 2019, 12:14 PM   #21
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Pepper spray and Tasers are arm's length weapons, as are knives.
A gun-even an LCP, increases that distance measurably. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
As I have said- if you can hit your target at 25 yards, you can damned sure hit it at 10 feet.
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Old June 26, 2019, 01:10 PM   #22
davidsog
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Pepper spray and Tasers are arm's length weapons, as are knives. A gun-even an LCP, increases that distance measurably.
No, a pocket pistol is an arms length weapon too. Of course, your mileage may vary and you well could be within the 14% that accurately hits at two to ten feet.

I am sure everyone is in their own mind. Firearms are tools and there is a reason they did not storm the beaches of Normandy with pocket pistols.

Either way, feel free to go with your bad self using that LCP at 25 yards.
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Old June 26, 2019, 02:53 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by davidsog View Post
Simply put, the LCP does not have the capability required and was never intended to be a combat pistol.
No offense but the notion of a combat pistol is kind of silly. Even a full size duty pistol offers very weak performance and accuracy compared to a rifle. I'm impressed with how well my second gen LCP shoots out to 15-20 yards, even shooting fairly fast. I have no idea how I would do with it in an actual defensive situation because like most people I've never been in that kind of situation.
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Old June 26, 2019, 04:11 PM   #24
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I'm impressed with how well my second gen LCP shoots...
Does the brass from your LCP mostly stay in one general area, or does it go all over the place?
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Old June 26, 2019, 04:34 PM   #25
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No, a pocket pistol is an arms length weapon too. Of course, your mileage may vary and you well could be within the 14% that accurately hits at two to ten feet.
I'm not a fan of the LCP but the video kind of proves that it can be accurate at longer distances. To say it's limited to arms length engagements is silly and very easy to prove wrong.

You can quote as many sources as you want who might have problems shooting the gun but that doesn't really prove anything other than they aren't a good shot with the gun.

Bringing up numerous arguments that a full size pistol is more accurate at longer distances, or that rifles are better, or that most police officers miss at ranges of 2 to 10 feet has nothing to do with the fact that the LCP can be effective at modest distances.
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