Short barrel Remington

Doc Hoy · January 24, 2011, 03:42 PM

Coupla months ago I put out feelers for clunkers to work on and I came up with this little beaut.

It is a .44 with a 4 1/2 inch barrel. All steel as you can see.

When I got it the revolver would not remain at full cock. Replacement of the trigger solved that problem.

This is the pistol I was referring to in another post about serial numbers. It has been defarbed and all that remains is a serial number on the butt and when you open it up the number 21 is on the inside of the grips, the grip end of the frame and the inside of the trigger guard.

Once I got the action cycling I started considering the cosmetic issues with the pistol. There are three: 1) The catch for the loading lever permits the loading lever to come to rest too far from the barrel near the muzzle. So the distance between the lever and the barrel is way more near the muzzle.. 2) the sight is made from a half of a dime which I am not partial too, not to mention the fact that the sight turns sideways. And finally and most notable is the need for refinishing of the pistol.

In the next photo I have removed the two offending parts from the barrel.

This is really and elegant revolver with a lot of possibilities. The action is quite good.

Doc Hoy · January 24, 2011, 03:45 PM

Here is the serial number

and the right side of the frame

I started on the loading lever catch first. In the Navy when I attended a school on gas welding and braising we did a thing called "shaft build up. The instructor handed each of his students a twelve inch piece of one inch pipe and about a million braising rods. Then he said make this pipe three inches in diameter. We stood there for two days laying down a bead on the pipe until the pipe was three inches in diameter of solid brass.

So I used that technique on the catch.

The catch as it was, fit the revolver perfectly and mimicked the original part well. The only problem was that the vee groove was at the wrong spot allowing the loading lever to rest too far from the barrel in the front. So I built up the catch and when I get a little more time, I will recut the groove at the right spot. I am relatively confident this will work.

Fiv3 · January 24, 2011, 03:58 PM

Awesome pics, Doc

Thank you.

That looks like it'll be a fine little revolver once you get done with it.

Doc Hoy · January 24, 2011, 04:14 PM

on that small part.

I hope it holds together when I get to filing on it.

Tnx,

Doc Hoy · January 24, 2011, 04:21 PM

In the first post I said that the pistol needs to be refinished.

I do acknowledge that some might disagree. The patina on this revolver makes it quite attractive. Once the lever sets properly and the sight is in place, the revolver would be ready in some folk's eyes.

I got hold of a coupla pieces of antler which I will be using for grips. I may polish it up to a high shine, or perhaps blue it. I think it won't look right as it is with antler grips and that antiqued finish.

More later.

Bill Akins · January 24, 2011, 08:06 PM

Nice looking shorty Remy Doc. Can't wait to see it completed. I love the shorty Remys.

You mentioned that the dovetailed loading latch mimicked the original one it had before it was cut down. Since Pietta has a non dovetailed latch post that is silver soldered into a hole, and Uberti has the dovetailed latch like yours has, do you know if yours is an Uberti or some other non Pietta brand like ASM? Or could it be a Pietta that someone made a new dovetail and installed a non factory dovetail latch onto? I know you said that all markings were defarbed except the serial #, but do you know who the original manufacturer was?
Have you mic'd your cylinders and barrel yet to see what they are?

Hardcase · January 24, 2011, 10:25 PM

Doc, do those numbers look anything like this:

Those are from my ASP .36 Remmie of 1972.

Doc Hoy · January 25, 2011, 03:44 AM

Bill,When I spoke of the appearance of the catch I was refering to the fact that the overall appearance of the catch can be made to look like the style of catch that was originally on this revolver, essentially cylindrical in shape without reference to how the catch is installed in the barrel.

Both of the parts, the sight and the catch are post manufacture fabrications (I am almost certain of the catch, I am certain of the sight.) It would be interesting to hear from anyone in the group who knows for sure that any manyfacturer made a Remington with a four and a half inch barrel. I don't know of any but there is a lot I don't know. (These would be both known and unknown unknowns)

This leaves me with the conclusion that the revolver was modified from one with a longer barrel and if that is the case it was done by someone who knew what he was doing for most of the project.

I have not measured the barrel or chambers but I can tell you that the chamfer on the chambers is the deepest I have seen on any revolver I have ever examined. The chamfer extends possibly .100 into the chamber and is at what appears to be a fairly standard angle. This may also have been a post manufacture modification, but again, there are a million or so Remington revolvers out there that I have not seen.

I have no idea who manufactured the revolver, but Hardcase may have supplied the answer.

Hardcase,

The numbers look exactly like those shown in your photo. I have pulled apart Remington revolvers from Pietta and ASM and have not, or do not remember seeing numbers like these, but I never dissassembled an ASP. It does appear as though I have now. My Rogers and Spencer is a Euroarms, which likely means ASP. The serial number is at the same place. When I wake up (I am asleep right now) I will be removing the grips to look for a similar number. Note that even the serial number in your photo is six digits with a leading zero. I would love to see serial numbers from other ASP 1858 Remingtons along with the year of manufacture.

sltm1 · January 25, 2011, 07:54 PM

Doc here's a pic of one I picked up a while ago for $100.00. It's got a 5.5 bbl and a slightly rusty bore. I had to change out the bolt hammer & trigger to correct timing and get the thing to work at all. I'm doing a plumb brown finish on it, only got the 1st coating done so it will look better when completed. It gives me a 4" group at 25yds....havin' so much fun with it I don't know when I'm gonna get the time to finish the browning!!

Edit: It won't let me load the pic!??

Doc Hoy · January 25, 2011, 08:18 PM

..Uploading it to photobucket and then linking it over to the thread.

sltm1 · January 25, 2011, 08:59 PM

Doc, gonna give it a try right now...thanks for the tip. Also, waitin' on some replacement grips I picked up on GB

sltm1 · January 25, 2011, 09:26 PM

Couldn't resist; TOGETHER AGAIN...FOR THE 1ST TIME.....THE "BROWN BOY'S' FROM BRESCIA" !!!!

Bill Akins · January 25, 2011, 11:32 PM

That's a nice looking brace of Remy revolvers you have there Sltm1. They both look great browned.

How's that 1863 baby Remy do shooting groups? I want to get me one of those.
I just wish the Italian repro manufacturers made the baby Remy in a scaled up design with the spur trigger in .44 cal. I'd get one of those for sure.

sltm1 · January 25, 2011, 11:40 PM

Bill, the little 63' shoot's very well, I can hold 4-5 inch groups at 20 yds....w/ 2 hands and a lot of patience LOL!! I raised the front sight buy soldering a brass strip (about 1.5mm high), on top of the original. It's pretty much POA now.

Doc Hoy · January 26, 2011, 06:24 AM

Cabelas has the 1863 is steel on sale for 200.00. DOn't know how long that is gonna last.

Doc Hoy · January 29, 2011, 12:09 PM

I have finished with the rough shaping of the catch.

You can see tht the lever is much closer to the barrel near the muzzle than in the first pohotos. Much closer to a parallel line.

sltm1 · January 29, 2011, 12:14 PM

You do good work Doc !!

Hardcase · January 29, 2011, 12:26 PM

Great job! It's coming together nicely.

Bill Akins · January 30, 2011, 02:28 AM

Looking real good Doc.

Doc Hoy · January 30, 2011, 07:43 AM

....the size of the sight.

I believe the sight is high by possibly as much as a tenth of an inch. I won't know that until it goes to the range. That is true of the recent 1860 Colt as well, although the intention there was to correct the nature of the Colts to shoot high.

We shall see.

Doc Hoy · February 11, 2011, 04:33 PM

....with the grips installed. They still need to be smoothed and tapered.

I have a method for making grips in a pistol which begins with shaping the part of the grip which mates up with the fraem of the revolver. This contour is difficult to get right but once it is right, then the rest of the grip can be shaped.

In this case the size of the blank and the flow of the grain of the antler skin did not permit me to work that way. So the match between the top of the grip and the frame is not very good.

Bill Akins · February 11, 2011, 05:58 PM

Looks great so far Doc.

.

Doc Hoy · February 13, 2011, 04:41 PM

I found the remnants of a ASP DDG of the underside of the barrel, so that question has been answered.

Here are some pix of the finished revolver.

Jim Watson · February 13, 2011, 04:54 PM

Nice proportions.
Has it got enough leverage to seat a ball or do you have to use a cheater?

Doc Hoy · February 13, 2011, 04:58 PM

Jim,

I use a press. But I think it would work if I use either 451s or 454s.

I have a Colt Sheriff of roughly the same geometry and the loading lever worked on that. (That was a .36 though.)

January 24, 2011, 03:42 PM	#1
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Short barrel Remington Coupla months ago I put out feelers for clunkers to work on and I came up with this little beaut. It is a .44 with a 4 1/2 inch barrel. All steel as you can see. When I got it the revolver would not remain at full cock. Replacement of the trigger solved that problem. This is the pistol I was referring to in another post about serial numbers. It has been defarbed and all that remains is a serial number on the butt and when you open it up the number 21 is on the inside of the grips, the grip end of the frame and the inside of the trigger guard. Once I got the action cycling I started considering the cosmetic issues with the pistol. There are three: 1) The catch for the loading lever permits the loading lever to come to rest too far from the barrel near the muzzle. So the distance between the lever and the barrel is way more near the muzzle.. 2) the sight is made from a half of a dime which I am not partial too, not to mention the fact that the sight turns sideways. And finally and most notable is the need for refinishing of the pistol. In the next photo I have removed the two offending parts from the barrel. This is really and elegant revolver with a lot of possibilities. The action is quite good. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 24, 2011, 03:45 PM	#2
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	More photos Here is the serial number and the right side of the frame I started on the loading lever catch first. In the Navy when I attended a school on gas welding and braising we did a thing called "shaft build up. The instructor handed each of his students a twelve inch piece of one inch pipe and about a million braising rods. Then he said make this pipe three inches in diameter. We stood there for two days laying down a bead on the pipe until the pipe was three inches in diameter of solid brass. So I used that technique on the catch. The catch as it was, fit the revolver perfectly and mimicked the original part well. The only problem was that the vee groove was at the wrong spot allowing the loading lever to rest too far from the barrel in the front. So I built up the catch and when I get a little more time, I will recut the groove at the right spot. I am relatively confident this will work. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 24, 2011, 04:14 PM	#4
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I had to use a lot of heat on that small part. I hope it holds together when I get to filing on it. Tnx, __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 24, 2011, 04:21 PM	#5
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Correction.... In the first post I said that the pistol needs to be refinished. I do acknowledge that some might disagree. The patina on this revolver makes it quite attractive. Once the lever sets properly and the sight is in place, the revolver would be ready in some folk's eyes. I got hold of a coupla pieces of antler which I will be using for grips. I may polish it up to a high shine, or perhaps blue it. I think it won't look right as it is with antler grips and that antiqued finish. More later. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 24, 2011, 10:25 PM	#7
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,909	Doc, do those numbers look anything like this: Those are from my ASP .36 Remmie of 1972. __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

January 24, 2011, 03:58 PM	#3
Fiv3 Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2010 Posts: 273	Awesome pics, Doc Thank you. That looks like it'll be a fine little revolver once you get done with it.

January 24, 2011, 08:06 PM	#6
Bill Akins Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Location: Hudson, Florida Posts: 1,135	Nice looking shorty Remy Doc. Can't wait to see it completed. I love the shorty Remys. You mentioned that the dovetailed loading latch mimicked the original one it had before it was cut down. Since Pietta has a non dovetailed latch post that is silver soldered into a hole, and Uberti has the dovetailed latch like yours has, do you know if yours is an Uberti or some other non Pietta brand like ASM? Or could it be a Pietta that someone made a new dovetail and installed a non factory dovetail latch onto? I know you said that all markings were defarbed except the serial #, but do you know who the original manufacturer was? Have you mic'd your cylinders and barrel yet to see what they are?

January 25, 2011, 03:44 AM	#8
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Two responses Bill,When I spoke of the appearance of the catch I was refering to the fact that the overall appearance of the catch can be made to look like the style of catch that was originally on this revolver, essentially cylindrical in shape without reference to how the catch is installed in the barrel. Both of the parts, the sight and the catch are post manufacture fabrications (I am almost certain of the catch, I am certain of the sight.) It would be interesting to hear from anyone in the group who knows for sure that any manyfacturer made a Remington with a four and a half inch barrel. I don't know of any but there is a lot I don't know. (These would be both known and unknown unknowns) This leaves me with the conclusion that the revolver was modified from one with a longer barrel and if that is the case it was done by someone who knew what he was doing for most of the project. I have not measured the barrel or chambers but I can tell you that the chamfer on the chambers is the deepest I have seen on any revolver I have ever examined. The chamfer extends possibly .100 into the chamber and is at what appears to be a fairly standard angle. This may also have been a post manufacture modification, but again, there are a million or so Remington revolvers out there that I have not seen. I have no idea who manufactured the revolver, but Hardcase may have supplied the answer. Hardcase, The numbers look exactly like those shown in your photo. I have pulled apart Remington revolvers from Pietta and ASM and have not, or do not remember seeing numbers like these, but I never dissassembled an ASP. It does appear as though I have now. My Rogers and Spencer is a Euroarms, which likely means ASP. The serial number is at the same place. When I wake up (I am asleep right now) I will be removing the grips to look for a similar number. Note that even the serial number in your photo is six digits with a leading zero. I would love to see serial numbers from other ASP 1858 Remingtons along with the year of manufacture. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 25, 2011, 07:54 PM	#9
sltm1 Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Location: Idaho Posts: 353	Doc here's a pic of one I picked up a while ago for $100.00. It's got a 5.5 bbl and a slightly rusty bore. I had to change out the bolt hammer & trigger to correct timing and get the thing to work at all. I'm doing a plumb brown finish on it, only got the 1st coating done so it will look better when completed. It gives me a 4" group at 25yds....havin' so much fun with it I don't know when I'm gonna get the time to finish the browning!! Edit: It won't let me load the pic!??

January 25, 2011, 08:18 PM	#10
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	You might try.. ..Uploading it to photobucket and then linking it over to the thread. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 25, 2011, 08:59 PM	#11
sltm1 Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Location: Idaho Posts: 353	Doc, gonna give it a try right now...thanks for the tip. Also, waitin' on some replacement grips I picked up on GB

January 25, 2011, 09:26 PM	#12
sltm1 Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Location: Idaho Posts: 353	Couldn't resist; TOGETHER AGAIN...FOR THE 1ST TIME.....THE "BROWN BOY'S' FROM BRESCIA" !!!!

January 25, 2011, 11:32 PM	#13
Bill Akins Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Location: Hudson, Florida Posts: 1,135	That's a nice looking brace of Remy revolvers you have there Sltm1. They both look great browned. How's that 1863 baby Remy do shooting groups? I want to get me one of those. I just wish the Italian repro manufacturers made the baby Remy in a scaled up design with the spur trigger in .44 cal. I'd get one of those for sure.

January 25, 2011, 11:40 PM	#14
sltm1 Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Location: Idaho Posts: 353	Bill, the little 63' shoot's very well, I can hold 4-5 inch groups at 20 yds....w/ 2 hands and a lot of patience LOL!! I raised the front sight buy soldering a brass strip (about 1.5mm high), on top of the original. It's pretty much POA now.

January 26, 2011, 06:24 AM	#15
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	JUST FYI Cabelas has the 1863 is steel on sale for 200.00. DOn't know how long that is gonna last. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 29, 2011, 12:09 PM	#16
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Here are some photos of the catch so far. I have finished with the rough shaping of the catch. You can see tht the lever is much closer to the barrel near the muzzle than in the first pohotos. Much closer to a parallel line. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 29, 2011, 12:14 PM	#17
sltm1 Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Location: Idaho Posts: 353	You do good work Doc !!

January 29, 2011, 12:26 PM	#18
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,909	Great job! It's coming together nicely. __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

January 30, 2011, 02:28 AM	#19
Bill Akins Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Location: Hudson, Florida Posts: 1,135	Looking real good Doc.

January 30, 2011, 07:43 AM	#20
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	No one has made comment on.... ....the size of the sight. I believe the sight is high by possibly as much as a tenth of an inch. I won't know that until it goes to the range. That is true of the recent 1860 Colt as well, although the intention there was to correct the nature of the Colts to shoot high. We shall see. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

February 11, 2011, 04:33 PM	#21
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Here it is..... ....with the grips installed. They still need to be smoothed and tapered. I have a method for making grips in a pistol which begins with shaping the part of the grip which mates up with the fraem of the revolver. This contour is difficult to get right but once it is right, then the rest of the grip can be shaped. In this case the size of the blank and the flow of the grain of the antler skin did not permit me to work that way. So the match between the top of the grip and the frame is not very good. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

February 11, 2011, 05:58 PM	#22
Bill Akins Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Location: Hudson, Florida Posts: 1,135	Looks great so far Doc. . __________________ "This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather". "To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

February 13, 2011, 04:41 PM	#23
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Finished the blueing today I found the remnants of a ASP DDG of the underside of the barrel, so that question has been answered. Here are some pix of the finished revolver. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

February 13, 2011, 04:54 PM	#24
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Nice proportions. Has it got enough leverage to seat a ball or do you have to use a cheater?

February 13, 2011, 04:58 PM	#25
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Ooops....I meant DGG Jim, I use a press. But I think it would work if I use either 451s or 454s. I have a Colt Sheriff of roughly the same geometry and the loading lever worked on that. (That was a .36 though.) __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.