OK through XFull choke?

[Mountain_man007]

I just re-bought (sold it once a year ago and had the opportunity to buy it back) a 20" 870 Express Magnum this week but forgot I had only an Extra Full Choke to go with it. So until I can get a cylinder choke I'm wondering if I can use the rifled slugs I have now through the tight choke without issues.. Also any problems with 00?

Thanks, first post here, I'm a "gun person" not a "shotgun person"...

[OzeanJaeger]

NO! If it’s a full choke for shot or turkey hunting you will most likely have catastrophic failure if you try to shoot a slug through it. You’ll loose the choke and destroy the threading, or it could jam and blow up the barrel. A sabot may squeeze through, but I would strongly recommend against it. Use cylinder or a rifled slug choke only to stay safe...
Stay safe.

[OzeanJaeger]

I would not use it for buckshot either unless it is expressly for it.

[T. O'Heir]

"...most likely have catastrophic failure..." That'd be highly unlikely. Slugs and buck shot are lead. Lead is much softer than the steel in any choke tube. Neither a slug nor buckshot will bother a choke tube.
However, you can have an IC choke tube from Wally World for under $20.

[mehavey]

Rifled choke is not the same problem as a .695" FULL choke's constriction on a solid-surface .731" foster slug.(which is why "rifled" slugs are grooved-rifled -- to give the lead someplace to go when squeezed in a choke -- and Lyman's unrifled Foster mould is only .705").
... though I doubt an immediate Elmer Fudd moment would be in the offing... maybe :uhoh:



then again... with a .685" X-Full constriction
http://www.xdtalk.com/threads/ruptur...l-pics.207226/.

[Virginian]

Rifled slugs will pass thru the choke with no issues, but accuracy will likely not be great. Ditto for buckshot patterns. An Improved cylinder or modified choke tube will likely be the most accurate, and modified or improved modified will likely give the best buckshot patterns.

[RMcL]

The bore diameter sections of all Foster type slugs are over the hollow portion of the slug to allow safe passage through choke constriction. Envision something like a large lead thimble.

[mete]

The rifling on slugs is phony .It was put there NOT to rotate the slug ! It's there to permit the slug to pass through chokes without harming the gun.

[RMcL]

The world of the smoothbore seems to be immersed in all three!

Just what good are those shallow grooves on the lead thimbles we call Rifled Slugs?

After some searching, I located this 1991 DOJ/FBI Report which documents slow rotation as a contributing factor to rifled slug accuracy:

-----------------------------------------------

"The slight rotation imparted by the ribs reduces the effect of manufacturing irregularities. In tests performed by Winchester-Western, the slug rotation was confirmed, resulting in consistently smaller groups for rifled slugs than unrifled slugs…

The basic Foster slug, however, remains a
hollow lead cup, heavier at the point. It has 14
small angled ribs swaged into the side of the
slug. The rifling tends to be obliterated by the
passage of the slug through the barrel, especially
through a full choke. Some spin does result
from the ribs, however, and tests show a very
slow spin of approximately one turn in 24 feet
of travel to one turn in 129 feet of travel,
depending upon the choke used. In 1980,
Remington and other slug manufacturers increased
the weight of 12-gauge rifle slugs to a
full 1 oz.

Neither Brenneke nor Foster slugs depend
upon the rifling ribs or projectile spin for stability.
The slugs are stable because they travel
through the air like a sand-filled sock with the
heavier toe forward (O'Connor 1965), unlike
symmetrical lead balls (Figure 3). The trailing
light end acts as a stabilizer. The slight rotation
imparted by the ribs reduces the effect of manufacturing
irregularities. In tests performed
by Winchester-Western, the slug rotation was
confirmed, resulting in consistently smaller
groups for rifled slugs than unrifled slugs
(Sterett 1966)."

Crime Laboratory, Digest April 1991 - Volume 18, No.2
--------------------------------------------------
Full report here:

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digi...32229NCJRS.pdf

What I find most interesting is the varying rate of spin noted for different amounts of choke constriction.

[RMcL]

In the for what its worth department:

In Guns Magazine Classic Edition of Sept. 1967. Col. Charles Askins briefly discussed the proper choke to use with 12 gauge rifled slug ammunition. Measurements taken from all 12 bore rifled slugs showed an average diameter of .676" and although the IC choke was recommended for accuracy, he did not find any notable difference from cylinder to full choke.

https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/...7/11/G0967.pdf

In 1980, the weight of American 12 gauge Rifled Slugs, was increased from 7/8th ounce to 1 ounce and the diameter to .730". Then, a few years later, Rifled slugs began to sport shallow hollow points. This marketing driven change, led to shallower penetration and recovered slugs in fragmented or lead doughnut shapes.

[jmr40]

Guys, the OP specifically said Extra Full choke, not a standard full choke tube. Those are specifically designed for turkey hunting with #4 shot or smaller. Certainly not slugs nor buckshot.

There is a big difference between a standard full choke and the extra full tubes designed for turkey hunting. While there may not be a failure if a few rounds are fired it isn't a good idea.

[RMcL]

Remington on the box:

Rifled slugs can be fired through any choke, but Improved Cylinder is recommended for best results.

[FITASC]

The choke will not give you any failure - it also most likely not give you the best accuracy. Slugs tend to work better with a choke somewhere in the IC constriction - for 12 gauge that is .010.

[Virginian]

The OP asked if he could use the slugs with no issues and the answer is yes.
THE most accurate smoothbore shotgun I have ever seen was a '60s era Wingmaster with a modified choke barrel. Most are not sd accurate as that one.

[RMcL]

Perhaps this patent office cross-section drawing will illustrate exactly why rifled slugs are safe to use in choke bore shotguns.

http://www.google.tk/patents/US8789470

Notice how any part of the slug which solid lead all the way across is of a reduced diameter.

Conversely, notice how any part of the slug which is bore size is directly over the large hollowed out area of the slug to allow safe passage through choke constriction.

[tango1niner]

Do not use sabot slugs.

[Mountain_man007]

Thanks everyone for the replies.. Looks like a few differing opinions on this.

Just to clear up the OP, I was wondering mainly about the safety of using the 2 3/4" rifled slugs I already have through the choke (marked "XFULL"). The reason I was wondering about this is because this 870 is to be used as a very general purpose gun. I live in Appalachian KY on top of a mountain with no neighbors for a few miles. The things I have to worry about here are a very serious coyote problem (I've 4 horses, pygmy goats plus 4 small and 2 large dogs) as well as a lot of black bear that occasionally come for the trash. Of course I wouldn't be using slugs for the coyote, but it could be necessary for a bear. And of course because of my isolation the biggest potential for trouble comes from all the meth users who live in the area and like to steal ATVs, chainsaws, etc. from places like mine (min. 15 - 30 minute sheriff response time).

So, I wouldn't want to have to worry about whether I'd blow the barrel if in a certain situation I loaded the slugs along with the 00 or needed them in the case of a bear. I have not used nor have no intention of using them with the XFull to deer hunt or target practice, etc. I certainly did not want to test the idea myself without any clue as to its safety I just didn't know if it was dangerous to do so and thereby limit my possible responses in a defensive type of situation (until I get around to buying another choke).

My next step down would be the 00... I wouldn't be so concerned about the safety of using 00 in the gun as it is, but how would a XFull choke affect the range and pattern of 00?

Thanks

[44 AMP]

Get a dime. Put it on the muzzle (empty gun, barrel vertical).

if it falls through, you won't have any trouble shooting slugs.

If it doesn't fall through, you won't have any trouble shooting slugs.

A pre-WWII 12ga marked Full Choke might actually have the same barrel ID as a modern X-full choke. Might even be smaller.

Slugs are made to safely squeeze through any choke, even the very tight ones of the very old guns. You MIGHT wind up with the issue of slugs "hammer welding" your choke tube to the barrel, but a small amount of Never-Seize or something similar should prevent that. Also not shooting a lot of slugs in a tight choke.

Accuracy is usually better with open chokes, and many swear by cylinder bore for slugs, but you can shoot them safely through any choke.

[AlaBusa]

Here's you a reference chart so you can check slug vs choke size.....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[Virginian]

For 100 years 12 gauge "Full" choke constriction was 0.040". Recently some manufacturers have gone to 0.035" or even 0.030" for Full.
Large buckshot will probably pattern better with modified or improved modified choke. Only way to KNOW is to pattern some.

[RMcL]

There are factory 00B loads designed to work with tighter chokes:

Patented buckshot stacking pattern...
...back in the 1980's Federal actually patented a specific way of stacking buckshot pellets in shotshells to get better patterns. This resulted in the Federal Premium line of buckshot with "Spiral Stacking."

The new Premium Buckshot ammo was advertised on highway billboards through out the South as well as in magazine style "Adverzines" sold from grocery store magazine racks in the 1980's.

These Buckshot loads, predated the Flite-Control wad concept by about 15 years and are still available in the Federal Premium product line.

Click on the Images in the patent for the concept in a nutshell.

Essentially - stacking the pellets in a slightly offset pattern allowed the large pellets to shift and flow rather than compress when passing through choke constriction.


http://www.google.com/patents/US4679505


On the other hand, there are factory loads on market that mimic pre-1963 buckshot technology.

[Mountain_man007]

Interesting... I've never seen those. I'd like to get my hands on a few to compare patterns with the regular 00. They would have to be comparable in price to regular shells to be worth it, for me - its hard to imagine a great enough improvement to justify spending double or whatever the premium price probably is. I suppose if you are a LEO or otherwise have a specific need for em...

[RMcL]

Originally Posted by Mountain_man007

Interesting... I've never seen those. I'd like to get my hands on a few to compare patterns with the regular 00. They would have to be comparable in price to regular shells to be worth it, for me - its hard to imagine a great enough improvement to justify spending double or whatever the premium price probably is. I suppose if you are a LEO or otherwise have a specific need for em...

Indeed, buckshot is not a generic commodity.

[RMcL]

And yes there are methods of pellet size selection and stacking patterns that handloaders can use. The idea is to create a smooth pellet flow through forcing cone and choke constrictions.