Winchester Model 12 fired when safety turned off

[Davehal9000]

Friend of mine has a Winchester Model 12 that he said fired on him when he turned the safety off. He was shooting skeet, and luckily the muzzle was well over his head when it fired.

He asked me to look at it, but it's not a gun I know anything about. I asked him to take it out back and see if he can recreate the malfunction, but he hasn't done so yet.

Any suggestions?

[eastbank]

could be dirt in the trigger parts or worn trigger parts, but it needs to be checked out before any live ammo is loaded into it. they are sturdy shotguns that hold up well.

[44 AMP]

IF he was holding the trigger back, they will do that.

The gun should be taken to a competent gunsmith and checked out. I got a 1920s production gun for my 16th birthday, and that was over 50 years ago. The gun has held up better than I have.

[Hawg]

Like 44 AMP said if the trigger is held back when the slide is worked it will fire. That's normal because it doesn't have a trigger disconnect. If it fires simply from taking the safety off something is wrong.

[Ricklin]

The original Winchester Model 12's (all of them) will slam fire if the trigger is depressed when working the slide.
Some might call that a defect, others may call it a feature.
The reproductions of the model 12 and the model 42 are not the same and do have a trigger disconnect.

[44 AMP]

The last production series of Model 12s were (primarily) trap guns, with high grade wood and features. They do have a disconnector. Not certain when it was put in but the trap models in the 60s had one, the field grade guns from 1912 until then (possibly in the 50s??) did not.

[Ricklin]

Thanks 44AMP much appreciated. I reckon we never say never.

[jmr40]

I'm not familiar with how the safety on that gun works. Some just block the trigger and prevent it from being pulled. Others also prevent the firing pin from being released.

If it is one that simply prevents the trigger from being pulled, then moving the safety to the "Fire" position won't cause it to fire. Either the operator was pulling the trigger when he moved the safety, or if the gun were defective, it could have fired at any time regardless of the position of the safety.

If it is one that also prevents the firing pin from being released it's possible that moving the safety to the "Fire" position could result in it firing with no trigger pull. If the internal trigger parts are defective, or dirty, the sear could release with no trigger pull as the gun is being carried and handled. It then discharges as soon as the safety is moved.

I THINK that gun uses a crossbolt safety on the trigger guard and does not also does not lock the firing pin, but I'm not certain. If I'm right the most likely answer is operator error.

[tangolima]

Sue and get the big bucks!

The muzzle was over his head? You mean the muzzle was pointed to the sky when he turned safety off? The gun then fired without touching the trigger. Any pumping when it happened? All those details are important for locating the problem area.

The gun has a cross pin safety, which Winchester calls trigger lock. So it simply blocks the trigger. You can't pull the trigger when the safety is on.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[FrankenMauser]

A Model 12 (and M25) can fire when the safety is disengaged if the trigger, trigger pin, hammer, or safety are significantly worn.

It needs to go to a gunsmith.
Make it their problem to figure out which one of the 8 trigger group variants is in play, and how to get the correct parts.

[Ricklin]

I think Simmons in Kansas is still a good source for M 12's. Getting harder and harder to find guys that are other than AR-15 parts changers now. A model 12 requires a real gunsmith.

[georgehwbush]

just a thought on this subject.

i have seen trigger block safeties which if the trigger was pulled with the safety was engaged then later the safety was turned off they would discharge. this is caused by a warn or misadjusted trigger to safety contact. i.e. the safety is letting the trigger move too far. then when the safety is turned off the trigger is already partly pulled and the gun fires. those with adjustable safeties can be easily fixed. those that are warn out need parts replaced.

[4V50 Gary]

It needs to go to the gunsmith.

[44 AMP]

The newest Model 12s are over a half century old. I have one that just crossed the century mark, half of that while I've owned it.

Model 12s are hell for stout, but any and every time there is an unexpected discharge, the gun needs to be checked out by a competent gunsmith, Not an AR assembler calling themselves a gunsmith. You know what I mean.