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Old August 29, 2018, 07:09 PM   #1
Roamin_Wade
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Barrel shot out? Barrel half shot out?

Is there a way to just visually inspect a barrel to see if it is shot out or been allowed to get too hot?
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Old August 29, 2018, 08:52 PM   #2
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I visually inspect my firearms with a bore scope. It shows me all I want to see inside the barrel.
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Old August 29, 2018, 09:21 PM   #3
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I’ve got a bore scope but with all the different ways to cut rifling it’s hard to tell if the land-to-groove profile is as it should be or if it’s worn. I’ve got some snap gauges and small hole measuring things (worked extensively in machine shops) but it’s almost impossible to measure a structure like twisted rifling with just two points. It really calls for a 3 bladed inside bore micrometers.
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Old August 30, 2018, 01:01 AM   #4
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"Shot out" means it is no longer shooting well, even after an in-depth cleaning. There is no"half shot out", because there is no way to tell when a given barrel will start not shooting well. I have seen barrels that were "shot out" that had 10" of burned throat, and I have seen barrels that were "shot out" with less than 1" of burned throat. Part of the equation is the shooter who dumps a barrel when the group size doubles, and part of it is the bullets that will no longer fly true through a given barrel.
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Old August 30, 2018, 03:29 AM   #5
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It seems like something called “slugging the barrel” with lead measures something but I don’t recall if that’s the way to check the barrel for proper headspace or the mean inside diameter of both the grooves and the lands.
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Old August 30, 2018, 07:54 AM   #6
Jim Watson
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Slugging the barrel is done to measure bore and groove dimensions. I guess Harry Pope could feel the state of wear by pushing a slug through, but it would be a very rough reading.

As Scorch says, the only measure of barrel wear is how well the rifle shoots. One target shooter has posted that it is all done when his group size increases by 50%. A target shooter will keep records and have an idea of the remaining accuracy life.

A guy was bringing his bore scope to matches and would give you a look inside your barrel for $10. But if you did not know what you were seeing, it did not do much good.
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Old August 31, 2018, 11:19 AM   #7
Don Fischer
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I think a lot of people worry about a shot out barrel needlessly. My 30-06 has a pretty bad barrel, gunsmith checked it out and said so. So for a while I spent looking for somewhere to get a re-bore to 338-06 on it. Funny thing though is I kept shooting that shot out barrel and kept getting just over 1" loads with it. Finally figured it out. Nothing wrong with that barrel, it's a hunting rifle!
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Old September 1, 2018, 01:16 PM   #8
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When I look through my borescope at my rifling in some Guns, the landslook like they are coated with brass and they have little crazing cracks, or at least they look like very tiny cracks. When I look through the barrel like one does with the bolt out of the gun towards a light or window, etc., it looks perfect! Nice and shiny, clean rifling with well defined lands and grooves. I’m wondering if all barrels look like mine from a borescope.
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Old September 1, 2018, 01:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
I’m wondering if all barrels look like mine from a borescope.
No, not all of them.
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Old September 1, 2018, 03:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Is there a way to just visually inspect a barrel to see if it is shot out or been allowed to get too hot

Some reloaders can and there are a lot of reloaders that can not. I purchased 4 rifles from one of the auction forms; I was not promised anything, I purchased the small stack of rifles for the sum of all of the parts. One was a Sauer Mauser that had been converted to 7.62 NATO with a 29?" long barrel. Another was a Mexican Mauser 7mm57, another was a last ditch 98 Mauser that looked like it had been hot dipped with shoe polish for a stock stain, after that it got worst.

And then there was the beauty, it was a 6.5 Japanese, it was the first to be road tested. I loaded up a few then took it to the range. I covered the receiver and part of the barrel with a white rag then fired the rifle. I removed the white rag and examined the rag like it was used as a death cover in Tehran. Sure enough the two gas escape holes show up as two black spots the opening in top of the receiver created a black outline.


The barrel was shot out, the bullet was so loose in the barrel it was impossible to create enough pressure to expand the case enough to seal the chamber.


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Old September 1, 2018, 03:10 PM   #11
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If you're talking about your own guns, then you can tell if they're shot out by shooting them. No need to use a borescope.

If you're talking about buying guns, that's a different story. You can tell, to some extent, and after some experience, what kind of a "life" the barrel has lived, but even a rough bore might shoot pretty well, and the fact that a bore looks pristine doesn't guarantee the rifle is going to be really accurate.
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Old September 1, 2018, 06:49 PM   #12
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I defined that the barrel was "shot out" on my Stevens 200 in 7mm-08AI by me reloading for it.
The pencil thin barrel still shot just fine, holding 3/4 MOA at all my shooting distances. (3 shot groups).

But by loading, i could keep track of the throat errosion. When the 140gr. Berger VLD was only going halfway down the case neck to seat it 0.005" off the lands, it was time.
Even 139gr. SSTs, and 140gr Ballistic Tips were beyond 2.900".
This was with me putting about 5,000 rounds through it, and i bought it used to begin with.

Sounds like your looking too hard for issues. KISS!!!
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Old September 1, 2018, 10:17 PM   #13
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Roaman: Give us some details of what gun you have, caliber, history.

Slugging is for variable grove/quality variation barrels trying to find what that model was.

Seldom is a barrel shot out that slugging will tell you.

If its gone, the throat is eaten down the barrel and to the point you can't seat a bullet long enough for the right grip and or none.

Doing some bullet seating tests will tell you a lot.

More or less if it is way out, its been eroded, if the bullet falls out before you contact the lands with a bullet, its a goner.
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Old September 1, 2018, 11:06 PM   #14
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Two guns. One is a Savage Model 99F (featherweight) in 243 that was made in ‘53. The second one is a Mauser k98 in 8mm NAZI era. The 243 will start shooting all over the paper after about 4 shots and the k98 has a fairly rough looking bore. It’s not shiny and smooth but it’s not way out of accuracy.
Is it a good way to check throat shape by spreading some Dykem bluing gel on the projectile and insert and remove it and see if there is a ring around the projectile where it touched the edge of the throat? More basic, do all bullets touch the throat edge when chambered?
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Old September 3, 2018, 07:46 PM   #15
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Take a fired case, crimp with pliers, or collet sizer till bullet is held snugly. Just beyond finger tight.
Insert bullet, leaving it long.
Chamber.
Do NOT pull the trigger!
Carefully remove. Measure with a good set of calipers.
Do this at least 3 times.
Measure from base, to bullet tip. ( i know it can be off by about 0.005").
This measurement is your cartridge over all length to the lands for that particular make/model/weight bullet.
Typically you would subtract 0.020" for your loaded COAL.

Not it can be longer than SAAMI or CIP length. As long as it's seated fully in the case neck.
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Old September 3, 2018, 09:34 PM   #16
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I have observed a couple of 243 Win barrels being shot out at approximately 1500 rounds.

Yours was made in 1953. I would expect it to be shot out unless it was delegated to closet duty.

I have a Mauser 98k that was WWII vintage and it still shoots good. The barrel is worn, but still usable.
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Old September 3, 2018, 10:25 PM   #17
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The rifling in the barrel of my NRA Sporter is well worn for the first six inches. There are no pits or crazing. The rifle shoots 1 1/4" three shot groups at 100 yards. The new star gauged barrel probably won't be installed on my watch.
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Old September 4, 2018, 12:26 PM   #18
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Most reliable bullet check method is to use a sized case (no powder, no primer)

That way if it sticks a bit it does not move.

You load one .100 long (in your case I would seat it as far out and still has some grip_, gently close the bolt (very gently) when it encounters resistance, pull back.

It may stick in the lands a bit (in your case maybe not at all) - you just keep seating a bit deeper until it closes without a stick. If you seat .020, you will be very close to real, not spot on but you can play with it from there.

In your case with a suspect 243, seat way long and move larger increments if needed.

Seated way long may not touch anything if its shot out.

Its the throat and first area of the lands that get eaten away.

Slugging tells you someplace in the bore what the minimum size is.

Depending on how hot it was shot, a 243 can take out a barrel in 2500 rounds.

As its a lever and possibly a deer gun, maybe not.

The K98 would have been good for 5-10,000 rounds.
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Old September 4, 2018, 09:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
You load one .100 long (in your case I would seat it as far out and still has some grip_, gently close the bolt (very gently) when it encounters resistance, pull back.
The best way? It has to be almost impossible for a reloader to push the bullet out of the case; I say that because very few reloaders can co it. If somehow they could manage the technique they could get all of the bullet hold they possible. They could seat the bullet first then push the bullet out to the lands and quit pushing when the bullet hit the lands.

After removing the case with the bullet from the chamber they could use the test case as a transfer when adjusting the seating die, when finished they would look like someone that knew what they were doing.

In rare occasions I have pushed bullets out of the case before the bullet contacted the rifling; meaning there was no way to seat a bullet long enough to contact the rifling.

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Old September 4, 2018, 09:14 PM   #20
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Is there a way to just visually inspect a barrel to see if it is shot out
I have 6 barrels that are shot out, I do not get hung-up on the shot-out part because most of the barrel damage has been caused by corrosive ammo and neglect. Not the upside but I have no problem cutting the barrel up for chamber gages.

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Old September 4, 2018, 10:12 PM   #21
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Some people mistake a shot out barrel for one that has never been cleaned properly and has several layers of copper over carbon. I have a 1960 Weatherby 257 Mag that is on the bench right now and on its second day of cleaning and it's still puking carbon and copper. If you look at the bore with a bore light it looks clean as a whistle but it's not. The previous owner thought the barrel was shot out, it's not, it's just full of layers of copper and carbon.

Update: Just got the last of the crud out of a nearly 60 year old rifle. The lands and grooves are in excellent condition now. This was a barrel that was thought to be shot out but was actually never properly cleaned. The layers of carbon and copper continued to build up over the years and I would have to think that the bullet was skidding down the barrel rather than being spun.

On a shot out barrel that has otherwise been properly maintained you will see signs of erroroision starting at the beginning of the lands just past the chamber. It will appear as a section that is dull compared to the barrel further forward. In extreme cases you'll see pitting.

Last edited by LineStretcher; September 4, 2018 at 11:55 PM.
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Old September 5, 2018, 06:29 AM   #22
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I have 2 or 3 rifles that have been re-barrelled using "take-offs" from match rifles that weren't quite up to the grade for their original purpose. One or two were "set back" to remove the scorched leade but another was simply threaded back on an action and headspaced.
"Half shot out" may still be pretty darned good if you don't demand benchrest accuracy.
My first assisted sighting device project used a Savage .223 that really was "shot out" but it still was capable of short range minute of deer when loaded with 70 grain round nose bullets at max mag length.
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Old September 5, 2018, 10:18 AM   #23
4V50 Gary
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Ugly pitted bores can still shoot well. Clean shiny bores can shoot a terrible group.

Like JohnSka wrote, only by firing it can you tell.
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Old September 5, 2018, 01:18 PM   #24
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Some shot out barrels will do fine at shorter ranges, but terrible at long range.

My Douglas barrel in my NM AR15 still shot well at 300, one match I cleaned 300 yards, but at 600 I could barely hit the target frame.

I did notice that I needed more and more elevation before it went all bad. It had just about 5000 rounds through it, so I rebarrelled.

I had another upper I only used for short range matches, and it still hammered at 200-300 yards with over 9000 rounds through it.

The throat and barrel crown is much more important than the lands and grooves when it comes to being "shot out".
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Old September 5, 2018, 02:57 PM   #25
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"...to just visually inspect..." Only for serious wear. You won't really see anything otherwise. Nothing to see with over heating.
And 'shot out' is a relative term. What is shot out to a serious competitive target shooter like a bench rest guy(who thinks in terms of 1/10" or less groups.) isn't to a hunter.
Headspace is checked with headspace gauges and nothing else. No bits of tape, wires, empty cases or chewing gum. Slugging the barrel checks its inside diameter across the grooves. Tells you the calibre and barrel diameter, but not much else.
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