What's up with cones?

Oquirrh · July 21, 2008, 10:10 PM

Novice question.
I've got three kinds of nipples among my revolvers (not counting thread size).

• Stock from factory--black finish. #10
• Stainless steel. #10.
• Treso, bronzey looking.#11

I know the Tresos have smaller holes supposedly making the cap ignite better and helping shed the burst caps.

But what about stainless vs. the stock cones?

And is there an big enough advantage to replacing the stock nips immediately with Treso, or should I wear 'em out first?
(Except that I hate stocking two sizes of caps.)

Hawg · July 21, 2008, 10:27 PM

If the factory nips work I see no need to replace them. I run factory nips on all my guns except for my Investarms Hawken. It's the only nipple I've had that ever went south. It was replaced around 20 years ago. The replacement is still good to go. I've got one revolver made in 1969 I really should replace them on because it takes a #9 cap they don't make anymore. I doubt I'd ever get them out tho. They're still good after no telling how many thousands of rounds they've set off.

Fingers McGee · July 22, 2008, 12:06 AM

I used to run nothing but factory/original stock nipples on my C&Bs (Euroarms, Piettas, Uberti's and Colt's)[I dont own any ROAs]. The stock nipples ran different sizes depending on who made the gun & when. I wasnt getting consistent performance from them, and was having trouble with caps either being too loose and falling off, or too tight and not popping on the first hit. I tried some SS nipples; but wasn't impressed with their performance. I now use Treso nipples on my C&Bs that I shoot and use #10 Remington caps on all of them. The Tresos have a smaller flash hole than stock or other after market nipples. The smaller flash hole reduces the amount of blowback that causes fouling and exploded caps. One size nipple, one size cap. I have very few problems with cap jams, misfires or other problems since I've changed everything over.

If you are planning to use repro Colt or Remington C&Bs in SASS competition on a regular basis, I highly recommend that you use Treso nipples and #10 Remington caps.

Hawg · July 22, 2008, 05:59 AM

I would like to have one size for all mine. My Pietta 60 takes #10 and my Pietta 58 takes #11. The only problem with #10's is I have to drive 55 miles to get them. I only have to drive 20 for #11's.

mykeal · July 22, 2008, 06:59 AM

If it works, don't fix it.

Yeah, I know, tired old cliche. But in this case it applies. If you are getting reliable ignition and the caps fit well then there is no reason to go to the expense of replacing the stock nipples. New nipples will not improve your accuracy nor solve global warming.

On the other hand, if you have several revolvers with different size cap requirements there is something to be said for standardizing the cone size, and changing to all Treso's will accomplish that.

Also, it makes sense to lay in spare parts if you shoot regularly, and going to the good aftermarket nipples (like Treso) for your spares is a good idea. If you're going to buy some anyway, buy the good ones.

Black vs stainless vs Ampco bronze:
Black nipples are really just blued carbon steel; some builders don't even bother to blue them. I put the blued and raw steel nipples in the same category.
Stainless has a slight advantage over black in cleaning. Cap residue is different than bp fouling. Soap and water is not as effective in cleaning it out, especially inside the nipple; a good bp solvent is usually necessary to soften the residue. Stainless resists the corrosion longer and is easier to clean. I have not seen any advantage for stainless over black nipples in terms of longevity; they will mushroom just as quickly if dry fired.
Ampco bronze has all the benefits of stainless (in fact, I think it's even easier to clean and resists corrosion better than stainless) plus it's harder and will last longer. That's not to say they can be dry fired repeatedly, but a few mistakes won't ruin a nipple like with a black or stainless nipple. The other advantage to the bronze is that they tout the smaller hole thing; there are stainless nipples with smaller holes too, and if you're having ignition problems they're both worth considering.

Finally, there are nipples with small holes in the side of the cone near the tip. The claimed advantage is 'hotter' shots and less tendency to blow the spent cap off the nipple. I've not seen either effect demonstrated yet.

Deadguy · July 22, 2008, 10:50 AM

The problem that I had with the original Italian nipples is inconsistency. Some are longer than others, some are wider than others, leading to inonsistent ignition, some caps would not go off at all, some would take a couple whacks, others go off as they are supposed to, and still others fall off. I switched to Tresos, and all those problems were fixed. I'm never going back to Italian nipples!

Ricklin · July 22, 2008, 11:15 AM

My fairly new 58 (Pietta) performs swimingly with it's stock nips. A #10 cap (CCI) is a perfect fit. Rarely a cap jam unless I'm pointing the piece down while popping caps prior to loading.

I did modify the cylinder to allow use of my Ted Cash snail capper. Spent quite a little bit of time on it so that the modification is not ugly.

Overall, other than the buying experience through a bad retailer (avoid cheaperthandirt.com) I've been very pleased overall.

And yup it shoots a little high, and a little left, as I have read here so many times. Dialing the sights in will be my goal as I go through my second box of .454 RB.

I do love that smoke and fire. And I also prefer 40 grs over 25

Oquirrh · July 22, 2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

I would like to have one size for all mine. My Pietta 60 takes #10 and my Pietta 58 takes #11. The only problem with #10's is I have to drive 55 miles to get them. I only have to drive 20 for #11's.

Exactly my prob. I can get ONLY RWS #11 in my neighborhood (gun shop ran out of Remingtons, told me if I paid for a full case, he would order them). I've got to drive 20 miles RT to a Sportsman's Warehouse, which carries CCI #10s.

45Marlin carbine · July 22, 2008, 01:22 PM

I changed over to stainless after haveing a steel nipple freeze in. cussed a blue streak getting it out. S/S is less prone to do that, but cleaning and useing thread dope is still important.
I've heard good thing on the Treso and Ampco nipples next replacement likely will be them.
when nipples 'mushroom' chuck 'em in a drill and carefully use a fine file to work the lip back down - which BTW I haven't had to do to the S/S nippples they are holding up well.
I really enjoy shooting my Pietta '58 'Buffalo' and ROA.

Hawg · July 22, 2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

I've got to drive 20 miles RT to a Sportsman's Warehouse, which carries CCI #10s.

You're lucky. My trips are one way. I'd like to put larger nips in my 58 Rigarmi but they've never been taken out.

long rider · July 22, 2008, 04:08 PM

All my bp guns are no 10s so i dont have to worry
about no 11s, i can get no 10s as well as no 11s
real ezay, sportsmans wearhouse is only 1 mile
away, i have lots of spare nips i took them all
down to fit no 10s ezay to do i posted on how to
some time ago. oh by the way i am talking revolver.

Lavid2002 · July 22, 2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

I would like to have one size for all mine. My Pietta 60 takes #10 and my Pietta 58 takes #11. The only problem with #10's is I have to drive 55 miles to get them. I only have to drive 20 for #11's.

Internet?

long rider · July 22, 2008, 04:23 PM

HMMMM seems like you are up against a block wall there, you can
take a no 11 down to a no 10 but you can not? well you know
what i mean.

Hawg · July 22, 2008, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Internet?

Hazmat fees make it undesirable.
I can take 11's down to 10 and they work ok but not perfect. I have taken them down to 9 and they work just don't reliably stay on.

long rider · July 22, 2008, 05:18 PM

All the nipples i have taken down they have performed
just fine, never had any probs, it takes a little work on
the nipples to get them all the same diameter but its
not that hard to do .

Hawg · July 22, 2008, 05:25 PM

Oh, I get what you're saying now. D'OH!

Only problem with that is it's a longer trip to get 10's. My Hawken still would require 11's so that's the way I'd rather go. Maybe I'll swap'em out after I get back to work and get some money coming back in.

long rider · July 22, 2008, 06:00 PM

I had some remmys was good for no 11s and some
was good for no 10s, and i like cci caps plus they
are ezasy to come by than rem caps, so i spent
three days takeing down all the nips i had, plus
i can get 1000 no 10s for 20 bucks cheaper than
rem caps.

Hawg · July 22, 2008, 06:57 PM

11's are easier to get and cost less than 10's plus I don't have to drive as far to get them. The 11's I get are CCI, 10's are Remington. I prefer CCI. but the Rem. 10's I've been getting have worked ok.

long rider · July 22, 2008, 07:03 PM

What do you pay for your cci 11s per 1000
and your no 10s rems per 1000?

long rider · July 22, 2008, 07:06 PM

OPPS sorry oquirrh did not mean to hi jack your spot,
HH fault he made me do it .

Hawg · July 22, 2008, 07:08 PM

Quote:

HH fault he made me do it

long rider · July 22, 2008, 07:21 PM

Just trying to make a little light humer, no insult
was intended.

Hawg · July 22, 2008, 07:29 PM

None taken

Oquirrh · July 22, 2008, 08:13 PM

Just the kinda info I was lookin for. I'm takin' notes.

My biggest frustration--I've got a Colt pocket navy that 11s fall off the cones and CCI 10s are a stretch to get on. It's an Ulberti, but the nipple has a lower profile than the Uberti Remington and Ruger OA of the same thread size.

I guess I'll order Tresos for it. Or as per above, I can polish the pocket Navy's nipples down a hair or two to take 10s easier.

I want to do an inventory of what I need in nipples. and order all at once from Possibles Shop.

long rider · July 22, 2008, 08:29 PM

IF you take a half round glass file put the nip in
a drill not to fast so you have sight and control
and take your timeand have a cap on hand so you
can run a test like i said take your time, it does not
take much to file them puppys down, like i said all
mine turned out good.

July 22, 2008, 12:06 AM	#3
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	I used to run nothing but factory/original stock nipples on my C&Bs (Euroarms, Piettas, Uberti's and Colt's)[I dont own any ROAs]. The stock nipples ran different sizes depending on who made the gun & when. I wasnt getting consistent performance from them, and was having trouble with caps either being too loose and falling off, or too tight and not popping on the first hit. I tried some SS nipples; but wasn't impressed with their performance. I now use Treso nipples on my C&Bs that I shoot and use #10 Remington caps on all of them. The Tresos have a smaller flash hole than stock or other after market nipples. The smaller flash hole reduces the amount of blowback that causes fouling and exploded caps. One size nipple, one size cap. I have very few problems with cap jams, misfires or other problems since I've changed everything over. If you are planning to use repro Colt or Remington C&Bs in SASS competition on a regular basis, I highly recommend that you use Treso nipples and #10 Remington caps. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

July 22, 2008, 11:15 AM	#7
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,011	Eye-talians are fine My fairly new 58 (Pietta) performs swimingly with it's stock nips. A #10 cap (CCI) is a perfect fit. Rarely a cap jam unless I'm pointing the piece down while popping caps prior to loading. I did modify the cylinder to allow use of my Ted Cash snail capper. Spent quite a little bit of time on it so that the modification is not ugly. Overall, other than the buying experience through a bad retailer (avoid cheaperthandirt.com) I've been very pleased overall. And yup it shoots a little high, and a little left, as I have read here so many times. Dialing the sights in will be my goal as I go through my second box of .454 RB. I do love that smoke and fire. And I also prefer 40 grs over 25 __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

July 22, 2008, 04:23 PM	#13
long rider Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 669	HMMMM seems like you are up against a block wall there, you can take a no 11 down to a no 10 but you can not? well you know what i mean. __________________ Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

July 22, 2008, 05:18 PM	#15
long rider Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 669	All the nipples i have taken down they have performed just fine, never had any probs, it takes a little work on the nipples to get them all the same diameter but its not that hard to do . __________________ Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

July 22, 2008, 06:00 PM	#17
long rider Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 669	I had some remmys was good for no 11s and some was good for no 10s, and i like cci caps plus they are ezasy to come by than rem caps, so i spent three days takeing down all the nips i had, plus i can get 1000 no 10s for 20 bucks cheaper than rem caps. __________________ Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

July 21, 2008, 10:10 PM	#1
Oquirrh Senior Member Join Date: May 5, 2008 Location: Utah Posts: 188	What's up with cones? Novice question. I've got three kinds of nipples among my revolvers (not counting thread size). • Stock from factory--black finish. #10 • Stainless steel. #10. • Treso, bronzey looking.#11 I know the Tresos have smaller holes supposedly making the cap ignite better and helping shed the burst caps. But what about stainless vs. the stock cones? And is there an big enough advantage to replacing the stock nips immediately with Treso, or should I wear 'em out first? (Except that I hate stocking two sizes of caps.)

July 21, 2008, 10:27 PM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	If the factory nips work I see no need to replace them. I run factory nips on all my guns except for my Investarms Hawken. It's the only nipple I've had that ever went south. It was replaced around 20 years ago. The replacement is still good to go. I've got one revolver made in 1969 I really should replace them on because it takes a #9 cap they don't make anymore. I doubt I'd ever get them out tho. They're still good after no telling how many thousands of rounds they've set off.

July 22, 2008, 05:59 AM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I would like to have one size for all mine. My Pietta 60 takes #10 and my Pietta 58 takes #11. The only problem with #10's is I have to drive 55 miles to get them. I only have to drive 20 for #11's.

July 22, 2008, 06:59 AM	#5
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	If it works, don't fix it. Yeah, I know, tired old cliche. But in this case it applies. If you are getting reliable ignition and the caps fit well then there is no reason to go to the expense of replacing the stock nipples. New nipples will not improve your accuracy nor solve global warming. On the other hand, if you have several revolvers with different size cap requirements there is something to be said for standardizing the cone size, and changing to all Treso's will accomplish that. Also, it makes sense to lay in spare parts if you shoot regularly, and going to the good aftermarket nipples (like Treso) for your spares is a good idea. If you're going to buy some anyway, buy the good ones. Black vs stainless vs Ampco bronze: Black nipples are really just blued carbon steel; some builders don't even bother to blue them. I put the blued and raw steel nipples in the same category. Stainless has a slight advantage over black in cleaning. Cap residue is different than bp fouling. Soap and water is not as effective in cleaning it out, especially inside the nipple; a good bp solvent is usually necessary to soften the residue. Stainless resists the corrosion longer and is easier to clean. I have not seen any advantage for stainless over black nipples in terms of longevity; they will mushroom just as quickly if dry fired. Ampco bronze has all the benefits of stainless (in fact, I think it's even easier to clean and resists corrosion better than stainless) plus it's harder and will last longer. That's not to say they can be dry fired repeatedly, but a few mistakes won't ruin a nipple like with a black or stainless nipple. The other advantage to the bronze is that they tout the smaller hole thing; there are stainless nipples with smaller holes too, and if you're having ignition problems they're both worth considering. Finally, there are nipples with small holes in the side of the cone near the tip. The claimed advantage is 'hotter' shots and less tendency to blow the spent cap off the nipple. I've not seen either effect demonstrated yet.

July 22, 2008, 10:50 AM	#6
Deadguy Member Join Date: April 17, 2008 Location: WI Posts: 93	The problem that I had with the original Italian nipples is inconsistency. Some are longer than others, some are wider than others, leading to inonsistent ignition, some caps would not go off at all, some would take a couple whacks, others go off as they are supposed to, and still others fall off. I switched to Tresos, and all those problems were fixed. I'm never going back to Italian nipples!

July 22, 2008, 01:22 PM	#9
45Marlin carbine Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2007 Location: South-Western North Carolina Posts: 1,124	I changed over to stainless after haveing a steel nipple freeze in. cussed a blue streak getting it out. S/S is less prone to do that, but cleaning and useing thread dope is still important. I've heard good thing on the Treso and Ampco nipples next replacement likely will be them. when nipples 'mushroom' chuck 'em in a drill and carefully use a fine file to work the lip back down - which BTW I haven't had to do to the S/S nippples they are holding up well. I really enjoy shooting my Pietta '58 'Buffalo' and ROA.

July 22, 2008, 04:08 PM	#11
long rider Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 669	All my bp guns are no 10s so i dont have to worry about no 11s, i can get no 10s as well as no 11s real ezay, sportsmans wearhouse is only 1 mile away, i have lots of spare nips i took them all down to fit no 10s ezay to do i posted on how to some time ago. oh by the way i am talking revolver. __________________ Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

July 22, 2008, 05:25 PM	#16
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Oh, I get what you're saying now. D'OH! Only problem with that is it's a longer trip to get 10's. My Hawken still would require 11's so that's the way I'd rather go. Maybe I'll swap'em out after I get back to work and get some money coming back in.

July 22, 2008, 06:57 PM	#18
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	11's are easier to get and cost less than 10's plus I don't have to drive as far to get them. The 11's I get are CCI, 10's are Remington. I prefer CCI. but the Rem. 10's I've been getting have worked ok.

July 22, 2008, 07:03 PM	#19
long rider Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 669	What do you pay for your cci 11s per 1000 and your no 10s rems per 1000? __________________ Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

July 22, 2008, 07:06 PM	#20
long rider Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 669	OPPS sorry oquirrh did not mean to hi jack your spot, HH fault he made me do it . __________________ Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

July 22, 2008, 07:21 PM	#22
long rider Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 669	Just trying to make a little light humer, no insult was intended. __________________ Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

July 22, 2008, 07:29 PM	#23
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	None taken

July 22, 2008, 08:13 PM	#24
Oquirrh Senior Member Join Date: May 5, 2008 Location: Utah Posts: 188	Hi-jack away... Just the kinda info I was lookin for. I'm takin' notes. My biggest frustration--I've got a Colt pocket navy that 11s fall off the cones and CCI 10s are a stretch to get on. It's an Ulberti, but the nipple has a lower profile than the Uberti Remington and Ruger OA of the same thread size. I guess I'll order Tresos for it. Or as per above, I can polish the pocket Navy's nipples down a hair or two to take 10s easier. I want to do an inventory of what I need in nipples. and order all at once from Possibles Shop.

July 22, 2008, 08:29 PM	#25
long rider Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 669	IF you take a half round glass file put the nip in a drill not to fast so you have sight and control and take your timeand have a cap on hand so you can run a test like i said take your time, it does not take much to file them puppys down, like i said all mine turned out good. __________________ Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.